Holocaust as a Hoax

[applepowerpc]

>> Chamberlain made it clear that it wasn't the Jewish "race" that he hated, but it was their values.

And the problem with this?

 

[Christopher Fox]

>> Chamberlain made it clear that it wasn't the Jewish "race" that he hated, but it was their values.

And the problem with this?

It is racism.

 

[SolomonVII]

It would seem to me that the assets of Jewish victims of the Holocaust moribund in Swiss bank accounts does not imply any culpability for the banks. When people put their money into the banks, the banks do not own those assets, but hold them as investments. The efforts of relatives of the victims to recover these assets is based on the greater legitimacy of their claims.

The security and secrecy of Swiss banking is legendary, and is very likely the reason that these victims of the holocaust would have chosen to use the Swiss banks in the first place. The Holocaust was of sufficient import that even the Swiss bankers agreed that the claims of relatives of holocaust victims should be an exception to the rule of such security and privacy.

The agreement to release assets was not an act of coersion but an act of humanity and compassion. How this settlement can somehow be seen to be a proof of the holocaust being a hoax is ,frankly, kooky.

 

[SolomonVII]

The Swiss were no more neutral in WW2 than France or Poland. Hitler twice intended to invade Switzerland--it even had a code name (Operation <something>). It was decided against, because the Nazis thought it would be a pyrrhic victory at best. There is one reason and one reason alone that Switzerland was neutral and France wasn't: because the Nazis invaded France and not Switzerland.

Or am I just being a "brainless revisionist" again?

What's your point? What does Swiss neutrality have to do with the holocaust being a hoax or not?

 

[TScott]

>> Chamberlain made it clear that it wasn't the Jewish "race" that he hated, but it was their values.

And the problem with this?

The problem with this was that Chamberlain was denegrating a whole people and offering it in a form that could be palpable in an intellegent way. You see normally bigots and racists use arguments that are clearly indications of ignorance and obtuse thinking. Chamberlain attempted to make an intellegent argument of what he saw as a racial struggle, yet at the same time saying that he was not racist. Anytime you generalise and stereotype, what you are doing is wrong, whether you are stereotyping Arabs, Jews, Americans, men or women or whatever. It is just plain wrong and it is ignorant to boot. Doesn't matter if you do it in the guise of academia, or in fiction. People are individuals and if you stereotype them you will be proven wrong, period.

 

[brad_religion]

To TScott - You say I am anti-jewish. I am not. I am however very anti-JUDAISM, which is a religion that denies Jesus Christ. I would say the same thing of a muslim with their false religion of Islam. Does that mean I'm "anti-muslim" because I say Islam is a false religion? Of course not.

At the end of WWII, there were approximately 12 million Germans in the areas east of the Oder und Neisse. There are only between one and two million there today. Does that really mean that 10 to 11 million Germans in the Eastern territories were exterminated? Of course, the answer is no; some of them died during the violence of the expulsion, of course, but most of them escaped to the West and survived the war. According to this logic, then, the general disappearance of Polish Jewry is no proof that most of the Jews in these territories were exterminated. They could have escaped or emigrated.

And these documents that you say "prove" this holocaust are either very vague or they were doctored after the war to appear authentic. This is the same type of fraud that evolutionists used to "prove" evolution. They would take the jaw of a man and attach it to the skull of a gorilla and say it was a missing link. They would go to a lot of trouble to do this. Believe me, all those documents you say "prove" the holocaust were this same type of fraud. To the zionists and their allies, falsifying records and documents is second nature. These were done so the Israelis could have a huge payday (and it continues today). The USA alone gives $40 billion per year to the Israeli government as does German "reparations". Believe me, for this type of hoax to work, you need to make it look like something is true that is not.

And the authentic documents with vague orders about the "final solution" and "jewish question" were not very specific. It could very well have meant forced emigration to other nations. If this is not true, why did the nazis work hand in hand with the zionists even up to 1938? The zionists were so determined to get Jerusalem and Palestine, they refused to work with the nazis, so the "final solution" of the nazis was to force jews to leave Germany and German occupied areas. The nazis were so organized and efficient and the chain of command was so great, that there is no way that "final solution" would mean "extermination" to those who received such a documentation. Nazis were very specific about EVERYTHING in their documents, yet the extermination idea is ABSENT from any of them. The reason the nazis and Hitler viewed jews in a bad light was not RACIAL, but rather POLITICAL, as many jews in Germany were in opposing political parties. Also, if it was about jews as a race, why in the world would Hitler allow 150,000 jewish soldiers in his Nazi party? Eat that one up!

 

[Freodin]

Do you want me to quote from the relevant documents? I fear it will be in German, but the evidence is there nontheless.

 

[Christopher Fox]

To TScott - You say I am anti-jewish. I am not. I am however very anti-JUDAISM

That's interesting. Are you aware that Jesus was a practicing Jew?

 

[oldrooster]

There was a great HBO movie called Conspiracy about the Wansee confrence, where a selected group of Third Reich officials plotted the final solution. It was made from the only surviving transcript of the meeting. It happened, anybody that believes that it didn't deserves to be in a rubber room.....

 

[brad_religion]

If Jesus was a practicing jew, why didn't the pharisees embrace him? They were very good at keeping the law, and Jesus kept the law too. Why didn't they like him? It says Jesus would NOT walk in jewry! Also, John the baptist and Jesus both condemned the religion of judaism. John the baptist called practicing judaizers a "brood of vipers", Jesus called practicing judaizers "children of the devil" and "you are not Abraham's children". How much more proof do you need? When John says that "who is a liar, but he that denies Jesus is the Messiah? He is antichrist". Who was he calling an antichrist? People who practice judaism. What other religion says Jesus existed, but is NOT the Messiah? No other. With all this, how can you say Jesus was a practicing Judaizer?

 

[TScott]

To TScott - You say I am anti-jewish. I am not. I am however very anti-JUDAISM, which is a religion that denies Jesus Christ. I would say the same thing of a muslim with their false religion of Islam. Does that mean I'm "anti-muslim" because I say Islam is a false religion? Of course not.

In the first place it isn't up to you to determine what is a false religion and what is not. Religion is a matter of faith and belief, no matter what religion it is. Faith and belief. If you do not understand that simple, basic principal, then you don't understand religion, yours or anyone elses. In the second place, as Christopher has pointed out to you Jesus himself was most certainly a Jew. He was born a Jew and when he died if you asked him he would have told you he was a Jew. I'm sure you will be surprised to know that the Jews and Muslims pray to the same God that Christians pray to; the God of Abraham. Perhaps someday you will actually read the Old Testament of the Bible. In it you will find a pretty good history of the foundation of the religion you claim to be a part of.

At the end of WWII, there were approximately 12 million Germans in the areas east of the Oder und Neisse. There are only between one and two million there today. Does that really mean that 10 to 11 million Germans in the Eastern territories were exterminated? Of course, the answer is no; some of them died during the violence of the expulsion, of course, but most of them escaped to the West and survived the war. According to this logic, then, the general disappearance of Polish Jewry is no proof that most of the Jews in these territories were exterminated. They could have escaped or emigrated.

Look, if you want to believe that garbage, if you want to ignore evidence and facts and truly bask in your ignorance and intolerance go ahead. That millions of Jews were murdered in Europe during WWII is a documented fact. It happened, and all of your obtuse statements won't change those facts. They will not go away. That the Germans moved from the areas you mentioned can be tracked, the people can be found elsewhere. The Jews, on the other hand can be tracked to the mass graves in the camps and the ditches and the ravines that were unearthed all over Eastern Europe. Thousands of the workers and soldiers that manned the death camps admitted that they were indeed death camps and that millions of Jews were indeed murdered. Thousands of soldiers also confessed that Jews were murdered by the Eizengrruppen and Einsatzgruppen following the invasion of Estern Europe and Russia. So you are confronted with the physical evidence of mass graves, the testimony of eyewitnesses, tens of thousands of corroborating documents and finally thousands of confessions, yet you refuse to believe it? And you offer zero evidence for your side of the "argument"?

And these documents that you say "prove" this holocaust are either very vague or they were doctored after the war to appear authentic. This is the same type of fraud that evolutionists used to "prove" evolution. They would take the jaw of a man and attach it to the skull of a gorilla and say it was a missing link. They would go to a lot of trouble to do this. Believe me, all those documents you say "prove" the holocaust were this same type of fraud. To the zionists and their allies, falsifying records and documents is second nature. These were done so the Israelis could have a huge payday (and it continues today). The USA alone gives $40 billion per year to the Israeli government as does German "reparations". Believe me, for this type of hoax to work, you need to make it look like something is true that is not.

The documents are not vague, they are specific, they were not doctored up, there was no reason to do that, it wouldn't have been logical to have done that. Hitler gave a radio address only hours before he killed himself urging his people to what? Not fight on for the Fatherland, but to continue the struggle against the Jews. That radio address wasn't faked, it was Hitlers voice. The Generals at the end of the war were in dire need of the use of the German train system to move troops along the collapsing front to defend Germany. Hitler refused them instead having the trains continue moving the Jews to the camps for their extermination. Why would the Generals lie about this and why were the troops not on those trains? I don't believe you will believe any evidence no matter how compelling. That is, by definition what a bigot does Brad, did you know that? You also show that you have little or no knowlege of the study of evolution, yet you evidently feel qualified to denounce it as well.

Also, if it was about jews as a race, why in the world would Hitler allow 150,000 jewish soldiers in his Nazi party? Eat that one up!

Please. I would suggest you educate yourself on this and other subjects before you go blathering on about them. I would suggest you read Bryan Riggs fine book Hitler's Jewish Soldiers which tells the tragic story of these brave men. They were men of Jewish decent who were career soldiers in the German Army, most of which didn't even consider themselves Jews, but were indeed of Jewish decent. In some cases where the Jewish blood of the officers was considered slight and the value of the officer seemed great Hitler himself signed the papers exmpting them from expulsion because of their Jewish blood. Tragically as the war turned and Hitler's hatred of the Jews festered, these men were eventually rounded up and sent to the camps.

On edit: Photo of Einsatzgruppen shooting
Jews in Poland.

 

[applepowerpc]

Observe in the picture how carefully the Nazis kept their records and how they scrutinizingly organized every Jewish body into neat rows. Observe in the background the Nazi bookkeeper who recorded every Jew who got executed into a database, so the Allies could capture it and refer to it later. The execution was very involved and bureaucratic. Thus, thanks to the Nazis' accurate recordkeeping of the Jews which they regarded as subhuman, the Holocaust is today the only genocide in history where we have such amazingly accurate numbers.

 

[TScott]

Observe in the picture how carefully the Nazis kept their records and how they scrutinizingly organized every Jewish body into neat rows. Observe in the background the Nazi bookkeeper who recorded every Jew who got executed into a database, so the Allies could capture it and refer to it later. The execution was very involved and bureaucratic. Thus, thanks to the Nazis' accurate recordkeeping of the Jews which they regarded as subhuman, the Holocaust is today the only genocide in history where we have such amazingly accurate numbers.

What a completely ignorant thing to say. Do you know what the Einsatzgruppen was? They were death squads sent out behind the invading German Army to round up Jews, intellegencia and wealthy land owners and murder them. There were no records kept, it was all haphazard, however after the war in trials throughout eastern Europe these men admitted to these crimes, claiming they were just following orders. Hundreds of them were executed and thousands of them imprisoned.

Why in the world don't you try to at least educate yourself before making such stupid, ignorant comments?

On edit:

How in the world can you call yourself an Ambassador for Christ after making such a callous, insensitive remark? You should be ashamed of yourself!

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

What a completely ignorant thing to say. Do you know what the Einsatzgruppen was? They were death squads sent out behind the invading German Army to round up Jews, intellegencia and wealthy land owners and murder them. There were no records kept, it was all haphazard, however after the war in trials throughout eastern Europe these men admitted to these crimes, claiming they were just following orders. Hundreds of them were executed and thousands of them imprisoned.

I've read Masters of Death: The SS-Einsatzgruppen and the Invention of the Holocaust. What a tale of horror. They were systematic killers that followed the German Armies as the moved east and slaughtered the Jews as the went.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[Christopher Fox]

If Jesus was a practicing jew, why didn't the pharisees embrace him? They were very good at keeping the law, and Jesus kept the law too. Why didn't they like him? .....blah, blah blah..... With all this, how can you say Jesus was a practicing Judaizer?

My friend you really have to read more carefully. I did not say that our Saviour was a 'Judaizer' I said he was a Jew. This is not some harebrained debating point, it is a fact. When you insult Jews, deny their history, spit upon their memory, you insult Our Lord also.

Why would you want to do this?

Christopher.

 

[TScott]

If Jesus was a practicing jew, why didn't the pharisees embrace him? They were very good at keeping the law, and Jesus kept the law too. Why didn't they like him? It says Jesus would NOT walk in jewry! Also, John the baptist and Jesus both condemned the religion of judaism. John the baptist called practicing judaizers a "brood of vipers", Jesus called practicing judaizers "children of the devil" and "you are not Abraham's children". How much more proof do you need? When John says that "who is a liar, but he that denies Jesus is the Messiah? He is antichrist". Who was he calling an antichrist? People who practice judaism. What other religion says Jesus existed, but is NOT the Messiah? No other. With all this, how can you say Jesus was a practicing Judaizer?

The Pharisees didn't represent all of the Jews at the time of Jesus, and not all of the Pharisees were against Jesus; recall Nicodemus in the Gospel of John. The Pharisees were a class of puritanistic politically inclined Jews who, by the time of Jesus had mostly, through political favors and dealings, become more or less aligned with the Hasmonian leaders, the Horodians and through them by proxy the Romans themselves. There were other sects as well, for example the Essenes, there is much evidence that this sect of Judaism included John the Baptist, as it is known since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls that the Essenes practiced baptism. Their adherence to the Law, appears to resemble the views of Jesus as espoused in the Synoptic Gospels, and after the crucifixion it would appear that the followers of Jesus in Jerusalem under the leadership of James the Just and St. Peter, followed the path of the Essenes with what they called The Way. Either way, Jesus was most certainly a Jew, that is a fundamental fact of the Christian faith.

 

[TScott]

Tscott - I doubt you are even a Christian by saying Islam and Judaism worship the same God as Christians or the fact you say we cannot determine what is a false religion. Shame on you! The scriptures clearly say if you have not the Son, you have not the Father. It also says if you don't abide in the doctrine of Christ you do not have God. How can a Christian say that Islam believes in the same God as Christians? Islam DENIES Jesus is the Son of God and Judaism denies Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah. And we can most certainly know what religion is false or true by the BIBLE. But you probably don't care what the bible says, you create truth based on a fiction or based on what is popular. You call these antichrists "brethren" and bid them Godspeed, and by that admission of yours, you are a partaker of their evil deeds. You are no follower of Christ!

I'm not here to discuss my religion or yours. What I believe, my faith, is none of your business and off topic.

That the Jewish, Islamic and Christian people worship the God of Abraham in different ways does not diminish the fact that it is still the God that Abraham worshipped. That is a basic biblical fact.

 

[Cjwinnit]

Because the devil is in the details. Hilberg says 5.1 died, yet if we accept 6 million as the number, where did the other 900,000 go? People are naturally going to question a 900,000 person descrepancy.

Gypsies, Homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses....

 

[SolomonVII]

From some of the arguments here, it seems that some are not really arguing that the Jewish holocaust was a hoax, but rather that the six million jews actually deserved to die because of their false religion.

Another observation would be the use of half truths as proof. It is interesting that the case pf the 150,000 Jewish-German soldiers was brought up, yet without sourcing and without the rest of the story being included, namely that these Jews were eventually rounded up and sent to the camps as well. (Notice how a source was provided with which we could verify the post if we feel there is a need.)
Undoubtedly there are some anti-semitic, holocaust-denying websites which one could go to to find out about the 150,000 Jewish soldiers fighting for the German cause, as any good German citizen would have, but the conscious bigotry of the author only becomes apparent with the discovery that rest of the story is being excluded from the reader.

 

[hemis]

Gypsies, Homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses....

I think he's talking about Jews.