Holocaust as a Hoax

[MatthewG215]

I have seen and read anti-Semites who claim the numbers of from the Holocaust are exagerated, or that it was a complete hoax. I dont understand where this comes from, and the same about the whole "Jewish Conspiracy". Does anyone know where I can find out about the origins of this?

 

[oldrooster]

You can go to google, look up David Irving. He has wrote books on the subject.

 

[Injured Soldier]

Not really any mystery, anything with such huge numbers is controversial. Most 20th century genocides numbers are prone to large differences even among genuine scholars. The Holocaust also deals with the millions of individual memories that may stretch the facts a little in such a huge situation. Add to that a traditionally persecuted minority, one which has also traditionally had a disproportionate amount of wealth and education. And lastly, the controversial topic since WWII has been Israel and the fact the Holocaust gets the lionshare of media coverage (when was the last time you saw a movie or TV series about the Tutsis in Rwanda, Hererro in Namibia, or the Armenians in Turkey? The only other non Holocaust genocide movie I can think of off the top of my head is "the Killing Fields"), which adds fuel to the fire. Ironically, the quest to ensure people never forget such a thing fuels such denials.

Irving is just a mouthpiece that wants to sell books. The above issues are what allows him to do a roaring trade in selling such books.

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

On April 15, 1945, after visiting the Ohrdruf concentration camp, General Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote to General George C. Marshall:

The things I saw beggar description...The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and inappropriate behavior with animals were...overpowering...I made the visit deliberately in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda.'

http://www.ushmm.org/ and http://tinyurl.com/ythzs are good resources. For specifics on numbers, see http://tinyurl.com/2m23x.

Be well!

ssv

 

[TScott]

I have seen and read anti-Semites who claim the numbers of from the Holocaust are exagerated, or that it was a complete hoax. I dont understand where this comes from, and the same about the whole "Jewish Conspiracy". Does anyone know where I can find out about the origins of this?

You usually don't have to look far, in fact all you have to do is what you have already done; start a thread. You will bring out the holcaust deniers, other threads have been started here on the very same subject and it is usually only a few posts before they start showing up telling you how the numbers have been exaggerated and how, since the Jews own the media, the holocaust gets all the attention. The Holocaust is denied and trivialized by the same people who perpetrated it in the first place: people who don't like Jews.

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

http://www.nizkor.org/

check out this site, award winning Number 1 site for holocaust studies..large section dealing with the hoax claims

 

[MatthewG215]

Thank you all.

 

[renegade pariah]

Idiots may quibble about the exact number of people murdered by the Nazis, but it doesn't matter. It was genocide, it did happen and almost extiguished the Jews in Poland.What is often forgotten are the Gypsies, Homosexuals,Jehova's Witnesses, Socialists, Communists, Priests,mentally ill, and all those who rose up against Hitler ...who were also murdered. Neo nazis are scum and so are their revisionists.

 

[oldrooster]

The funny thing about the denial is, that the people who did it were proud of having done it. Along come the revs & the neos and they want to deny it. doesn't make any sense.

 

[applepowerpc]

I am one of those who believes the Holocaust numbers were exaggerated. I always found it funny how I get lumped together with those few who deny it ever happened.

There is an obscure passage in Jewish Kaballah that says the Jews would return to Israel "minus six million". That's where the 6 million figure comes from. If anyone believes it really was 6 million and this is a miraculous fulfillment of prophecy--study Kaballah sometime. It's not pretty.

Also, you can study Rudolf Kastner. The Zionists in WWII were not innocent.

 

[applepowerpc]

Another tidbit of interesting info. You know what holocaust means?

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=holocaust

Sacrifice! Now, does that make you wonder, what would lead the Jews to view the slaughter of "6 million" of their own as a sacrifice?

 

[Injured Soldier]

Consuming fire. It isn't necissarily about sacrifice, applepowerpc. It's a religious word. Which is why the word Holocaust applies to the genocide of the Jews, but not the mass killing of other groups such as the Poles or Soviets.

It is like the word sin. It has no meaning outside of it's religious context and beliefs.

 

[Agrippa]

Another tidbit of interesting info. You know what holocaust means?

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=holocaust

Sacrifice! Now, does that make you wonder, what would lead the Jews to view the slaughter of "6 million" of their own as a sacrifice?

Many Jews are actually trying to change the name of the 'Holocaust' for that very reason. I can't remember off-hand what they're trying to change it to, but it begins with an 's'.

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

Even if the numbers have been exaggerated, Hitler killed so many that it doesn't matter. Whether it's 100,000 (please don't try to tell me it was that low), 6 million, or 10 million, it was still genocide.

 

[Injured Soldier]

Was it Shoah, Agrippa? It is Hebrew for desolation or calamity. The Gypsies use the word Porajmos (devouring) to desribe their extermination by the Nazis.

Even if the numbers have been exaggerated, Hitler killed so many that it doesn't matter. Whether it's 100,000 (please don't try to tell me it was that low), 6 million, or 10 million, it was still genocide.

Because the devil is in the details. Hilberg says 5.1 died, yet if we accept 6 million as the number, where did the other 900,000 go? People are naturally going to question a 900,000 person descrepancy. Plus I think just saying around 6 million died is a digrace to the Jews who lived through the Holocaust and those who died.

It may be wrong, but that's how people approach thinking about the Holocaust. The way the deniers think is if we can be out by 1.5 million, we could be out by almost all 6 million. Numbers never used to be important, in ancient sources in battles you could throw out a ridiculously high number like 6 or 8 million, and everyone understood this just meant a lot of guys. But the modern state has us in the frame of mind that numbers and statistics is all that is important.

 

[oldrooster]

Please, even Himmler said that that was a glorious page in German history that was never to be written. If they had done nothing at the camps, they would not have gone to such great lengths to cover up what they did. If anything the figure is probably quite higher. Deaths in the USSR are known to be quite higher than actual quoted figures.

 

[TScott]

Because the devil is in the details. Hilberg says 5.1 died, yet if we accept 6 million as the number, where did the other 900,000 go? People are naturally going to question a 900,000 person descrepancy. Plus I think just saying around 6 million died is a digrace to the Jews who lived through the Holocaust and those who died.

The most credible accountings for the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis is between 5,596,000 and 5,860,000. An accounting by an Anglo-American committee that accounted for the numbers from each Eurpoean country came up with 5,791,000.

 

[Agrippa]

Was it Shoah, Agrippa? It is Hebrew for desolation or calamity. The Gypsies use the word Porajmos (devouring) to desribe their extermination by the Nazis.

That's it. Thanks.

 

[dawnmo]

You may want to read the book "Denying the Holocaust" by Deborah Lipstadt. I read it for a class devoted exclusively to Shoah (my professor used that instead of "Holocaust") and I thought it was a really good book. It explains how the Shoah deniers started, who propegates the nonsense, and rebuttals to the deniers' claims.

 

[applepowerpc]

So are we just going to change the name without even bothering to ask how "holocaust" even got there in the first place?