History of the "Born Again Christian" movement.

[johnnywong]

Being a history buff, and wanting to learn about the early Christians, is what lead me to my conversion to the Catholic Church. Before my conversion, I believed that all I needed to do to be "Born Again Christian" was:

1. Accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior.

2. Believe and pray to him/ asking him into my heart. (the sinners prayer)

3. Repent of my sins.

4. Join a church or religious community, if I wanted, but not necessary.

5. Have a full immersion baptisim.

6. Welcoming and receiving the Holy Spirit.


After digging and reading into early Christianity, I found that history was silent on the existence of the "born again" movement. For example, as far as my studies lead me, even the Protestant Reformers such as Martin Luther, Uldrich Zwingli and John Calvin never mentioned or even said something in formality or in passsing about the born again Christian movement in any of their writings, or if they did, I missed it.

What my studies did show me though was that It wasn't until the 19th century where the idea “born again Christian" movement made its appearance in human history, and that the "born again Christian" movement can only trace its origin back in 1909-1915.


So...... as I mentiond, being a history buff of early Christianity, I would be much interested if any believer of the born again Christian movement, could show any teachings or writings supporting the born again Christian movement prior to the 19th cent. or from the early Christians prior to the Protestant Reformation.


Thank you for your input.

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. gives birth to spirit. must be born again.’ John 3.5


Jesus said we have to be born again by spirit become a new creation with new soul-spirit complex before we can be saved.


The early church had no need to have this movement. Because everybody knows about this.


After 1900 , because these last days , the 'Cheap Grace ' belief is so popular , many preachers water down the importance of self- denial , self- death of "old me " and born again . The born-again movement is so important .

 

[redleghunter]

He isn't questioning the concept of being born again guys, he is questioning the modern evangelical "born again movement". Which is essentially the format most protestant churches use in their services and theology. Examples would include modern inventions such as:

-Once saved always saved
-Faith alone
-Sola Scriptura
-Rejection of all apostolic tradition
-Non liturgical services
-Lack of belief in the real presence in the Eucharist.

Therefore this is a Sola Ecclesia issue for you and others here.

 

[redleghunter]

Hello sir, glad to know that the forum has more from East Africa. To God be all the Glory. Amen

Welcome Colin!

 

[Karola]

I really dunno where people get the idea churches termed ''born again churches believe in ''cheap grace'' and ''once saved always saved'' I was raised in a church termed ''born again'' I grew up fearing hell due to the slightest of imperfections

 

[Karola]

What does the term ''born again'' mean?

When I responded to an altar call, the first difference in me I noticed was, I became conscious of my sin before God in a very real and profound way. I became aware of it, as I never had previously. In my mind, I instinctively knew how God wanted me to live(you could say according to his laws)

and in my heart I wanted to live that way(you could say according to his laws also). Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
I no longer wanted to live, according to my own natural desires, but according to how God wanted me to live. In this sense, you could say I had been born again:
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds....

Heb10:15&16

Just my thoughts

 

[Deborah D]

What does the term ''born again'' mean?

When I responded to an altar call, the first difference in me I noticed was, I became conscious of my sin before God in a very real and profound way. I became aware of it, as I never had previously. In my mind, I instinctively knew how God wanted me to live(you could say according to his laws)

and in my heart I wanted to live that way(you could say according to his laws also). Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
I no longer wanted to live, according to my own natural desires, but according to how God wanted me to live. In this sense, you could say I had been born again:
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds....

Heb10:15&16

Just my thoughts

Thanks for sharing how you became a Christian. It blessed me to hear it.

You had asked about the term "born again." It comes from John 3:3 where Jesus told Nicodemus that unless a person is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I've always seen this term as meaning the same as being saved.
.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think Luther ever harmonized his medieval understanding of baptismal regeneration and the spiritual transformation of being born again or from above. Will have to research that if he did.

Yes he did, though if you have a Baptist or a Puritan understanding of baptism, you might be confused as to how this is so, how we are both sacramentalist and also evangelical.

Luther's Small Catechism was penned by his own hand, and it affirms baptismal regeneration:

Q: What benefits does baptism give?

A: It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.

and

Q: How can water do such great things?

A: Certainly not just water, but the word of God in and with the water does these things, along with the faith which trusts this word of God in the water. For without God’s word the water is plain water and no Baptism. But with the word of God it is a Baptism, that is, a life-giving water, rich in grace, and a washing of the new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul says in Titus, chapter three: “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying.” (Titus 3:5–8)

Luther’s Small Catechism by Dr. Martin Luther


And a perspective from my own denomination:

Why infant baptism? - Living Lutheran

But he did make a distinction by testimony in this quote:

"At last meditating day and night, by the mercy of God, I began to understand that the righteousness of God is that through which the righteous live by a gift of God, namely by faith. Here I felt as if I were entirely born again and had entered paradise itself through the gates that had been flung open."​

The Most Dangerous Thing Luther Did

That doesn't have to do with being "born again" as American evangelicals understand it, as a moment of salvation where one chooses to accept the Gospel. Nor Luther believe he was saved by discovering a theological truth.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Being a history buff, and wanting to learn about the early Christians, is what lead me to my conversion to the Catholic Church. Before my conversion, I believed that all I needed to do to be "Born Again Christian" was:

1. Accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior.

2. Believe and pray to him/ asking him into my heart. (the sinners prayer)

3. Repent of my sins.

4. Join a church or religious community, if I wanted, but not necessary.

5. Have a full immersion baptisim.

6. Welcoming and receiving the Holy Spirit.


After digging and reading into early Christianity, I found that history was silent on the existence of the "born again" movement. For example, as far as my studies lead me, even the Protestant Reformers such as Martin Luther, Uldrich Zwingli and John Calvin never mentioned or even said something in formality or in passsing about the born again Christian movement in any of their writings, or if they did, I missed it.

What my studies did show me though was that It wasn't until the 19th century where the idea “born again Christian" movement made its appearance in human history, and that the "born again Christian" movement can only trace its origin back in 1909-1915.


So...... as I mentiond, being a history buff of early Christianity, I would be much interested if any believer of the born again Christian movement, could show any teachings or writings supporting the born again Christian movement prior to the 19th cent. or from the early Christians prior to the Protestant Reformation.


Thank you for your input.

I agree with you on the scriptures regarding the truly traditional and scriptural instructions regarding water baptism as the outward sign of an inner renewal , much like circumcision ..It is scriptural but a man must be born again ..He must because otherwise he can not understand the things of God ..he may get baptized into the catholic church or protestant church but without the new birth , he has no life for the new birth is wrought by God ...I know this for I was dead and in church . And the new birth will cause one to loose much ...just as there was a great gulf between the rich man and Lazarus in their death , there was also a great gulf between them when they lived . Jesus is the spirit of truth ..not the spirit of theology and both the protestant and catholic church have a HISTORY of error ...and if you know history, you know that is true . John Henry Newman was reacting against the emotional new birth / getting saved revivalism of Charles Spurgeon during Victorian England ..I appreciate some of his teachings ..( Have you read the sermon called "Watching" ? ..It is regarding what it means to watch and pray always . ) But I also have first hand experience of the lack of oversight into the lives of the members of the catholic church and much of the protestant church since my children are members and are lost eternally ...this is a great burden on me as of course it would be since I love them . Additionally , we all know that the ridiculous amounts of money we spend on inanimate buildings called " churches " is not according to new testament scriptures , nor any writings of any church fathers ..." God does not dwell in a building built with human hands . " So I ask myself questions in order to get answers. Does God need a building ? Does God love bricks and stones ? If I do truth " I am the WAY , the TRUTH , and the Life , NO ONE comes to the Father but by me ...Can we come to the Father and not do Truth ? New Birth ? ...non negotiable for otherwise we are only carnal ..that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit . Ironically Jesus has often been crucified by believers ...consider what I say .

 

[redleghunter]

Even Luther lamented "there are now as many doctrines as heads" - but it was him that let pandora out of the box, in disavowing authority, so all get to make up their own version. Even he had to admit that scripture was a product of the very authority he disavowed, which authority carried specific meanign with scripture (eg eucharist of real flesh)

You have a source for the quote?

 

[redleghunter]

I believe Peter went out to Baptise, which is the true entry point into the christian church.

And that is the start of a spiritual journey. It is not the "do this one thing and be saved forever"
The quasi sacrament "ask jesus into your life"...that many of these communities seem to prefer. One problem is of course, these congregations are not homogenous.

1 Corinthians 1: NASB
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

 

[Blade]

born again movement? Sorry I'm 59 and never unless I forgot.. heard of this. Born again or born from above.. have bibles over then 1909 and BORN AGAIN is there..so.. its been here since Christ 1st said it.

BORN AGAIN can also be as written OT NT simple call on the name of the lord and you will be saved. He knows the heart. BORN AGAIN.. Im in!

 

[redleghunter]

You just might not have been surprised, if you too had been raised as an 'unsaved' Catholic who participated in all the ‘religious rituals’ of the Church, but without experiencing the ‘spiritual realities’ represented by those ‘rituals’. Please hear me, I am not saying it isn't possible to eventually become a Christian as a cradle born Catholic. I just don't believe it happens in the ritualistic order as is taught by the RC church.

I have also said for years, with confirmation from many, that Catholics who actually get born again and Spirit baptized (with the evidence of prayer tongues 'In the experience of those I'm speaking to') are very often the most committed "Christians" I/we have known over the years. I have also noticed Fedlibus, that adult Protestants who convert to Catholicism, are most often, more committed and knowledgeable Catholics concerning 'the church' and it's teachings than most of the RC church's 'pew warmers'. A 'condition' which I believe described me.


I believe scripture supports that Jesus experienced several baptisms in His 30 years as the 'pattern son' whose life we are to follow. Two of those baptisms are, as you mention above. A baptism in water and the subsequent baptism of the Spirit from above after his baptism in water. Even though both of those two events were obviously sequential in the case of Jesus, I personally believe one does error, in believing those two baptisms are a 'one and the same' event. And scripture supports that 'opinion' for me. That's what happened both, at the house of Cornelius and also at Samaria;

ACT 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

My testimony is also a 'Gentile' one like the house of Cornelius. I was born again saved for 6 months before receiving the baptism of the Spirit and then subsequently being water baptized a few months after my Spirit baptism.

ACT 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
ACT 8:15 Who, when they Peter/John) were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)


Still being, under the law, which Jesus had not fulfilled had nothing to do with this OT baptism being the NT baptism which He initiated 'after His resurrection'. A 'baptismal process' which we call, the Great Commission...of Christ for His church.

I have single question for you Fidelibus; If the baptism of John forgave sins as scripture states...then why did Jesus still have to die, for the forgiveness of sins?

MAR 1:4 John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

I'm going to quit here Fedelibus, because, as you said, this is a long post and I really don't want to spend that much time posting returns anymore. I think 'this post' of mine is too long. I'm really more interested in seeing what others think, and deciding if all of my 'heretical' thinking is still 'the truth' I believe I'm seeing, in opposition to the opinion of orthodoxy.

Long post but accurate.

The NT witness is

Gospel preached, people hear and those who believe received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10) and were baptized in water.


The Catholic view of baptismal regeneration in water makes the Cross and Empty Tomb needless.

The New Covenant is in the Blood of Christ which justifies.

Now if one argues one must be baptized to become a church member, there is support for this from Holy Scriptures.

 

[redleghunter]

Though i don't know how you could read a purely Evangelical reading into Ignatius who insists on the necessity of having Bishops and being subject to them. He goes so far as to compare the Church to a harp whose strings representing the Bishops make a harmonious song when strung together. Could you endorse this?

Bishop, Presbyter, Elder are all the same office in the NT.

There were no priests in the NT church. That was a later development.

So in the time of even Ignatius, the term bishop was the same as elder or presbyter. We have the same offices in our Evangelical church government.

 

[redleghunter]

Ignatius seems to presume that Church is necessary to the Christian life. Evangelicalism says its good to have a Church but ultimately not necessary when compared to faith alone.

No you are mistaken. Communing and serving the church is critical to the Christian walk. One coal away from the fire and warmth of the rest burns out. We are to share each other's burdens, be partners in the ministries of the church and support our leadership.

We are not to deny the fellowship of other believers.

not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. (Hebrews 10:25)

I can give you other NT examples if you like from Acts and the epistles.

 

[FireDragon76]

Not trying to be dis-respectful redleg, but I couldn't disagree more, my studies of Early Church history is what led me to the Catholic Church.

Prominent Anglican clergyman that converted to Catholicism, John Henry Newman which
ultimately became a Cardinal (1801–1890) says it best:


"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."


You should read his and fellow Anglican convert to Catholicism and Catholic Cardinal Henry Edward Manning's (1808–1892) writings.

Have a Blessed day

I admire Newman, especially his stand on the place of individual conscience. Which is why I'm ultimately Evangelical Lutheran rather than Catholic. I like being in a church that focuses on consensual decision-making and personal moral agency, rather than merely having a hierarchy tell me what to believe and how to live. Newman emphasized the sensus fidelium, but as a concept that is respected more in my church than in Rome.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes he did, though if you have a Baptist or a Puritan understanding of baptism, you might be confused as to how this is so, how we are both sacramentalist and also evangelical.

I was raised Roman Catholic so have a pretty good idea. Also am The Godfather for my LCMS friend’s twin grandchildren and went through the classes.

That doesn't have to do with being "born again" as American evangelicals understand it, as a moment of salvation where one chooses to accept the Gospel. Nor Luther believe he was saved by discovering a theological truth.

I think his quote is quite clear it was a moment of clarity and he was born again. Has nothing to do with Puritan views. It’s a John 3 view.

And I agree. The small Catechism is instructive in Luther’s harmony. He said the water was nothing without the Word of God.

 

[FireDragon76]

I was raised Roman Catholic so have a pretty good idea. Also am The Godfather for my LCMS friend’s twin grandchildren and went through the classes.



I think his quote is quite clear it was a moment of clarity and he was born again. Has nothing to do with Puritan views. It’s a John 3 view.

And I agree. The small Catechism is instructive in Luther’s harmony. He said the water was nothing without the Word of God.

Just to be clear... the Word of God is in and with the water, because it is done according to Christ's ordinance. We therefore do not think of the Word of God as being separated from the act of baptism.

This is why we believe in baptismal regeneration.

 

[redleghunter]

The Word of God is in and with the water, because it is done according to Christ's ordinance.

The command of Christ was to make disciples and bapatize. Matthew 28.

The NT example is always faith preceding baptism. Not baptism preceding faith or bestowing faith. Even RCIA is a one year process to baptism.

So if the so called Puritan or American Evangelical view is hear the Gospel, faith and then faith manifested in baptism, then they have it right and it is how souls in the NT were saved and then professed their salvation and faith in baptism.

I also was confirmed at age 12 in the RC church and attended one Lutheran confirmation as well. The sacrament of Confirmation, well confirms to me that infant or small children baptism does not confer the fullness of what both churches claim baptism does. Yet baptism is only given to adult converts after a one or two year program (RCIA). Very telling.

 

[FireDragon76]

The command of Christ was to make disciples and bapatize. Matthew 28.

The NT example is always faith preceding baptism. Not baptism preceding faith or bestowing faith. Even RCIA is a one year process to baptism.

So if the so called Puritan or American Evangelical view is hear the Gospel, faith and then faith manifested in baptism, then they have it right and it is how souls in the NT were saved and then professed their salvation and faith in baptism.

I also was confirmed at age 12 in the RC church and attended one Lutheran confirmation as well. The sacrament of Confirmation, well confirms to me that infant or small children baptism does not confer the fullness of what both churches claim baptism does. Yet baptism is only given to adult converts after a one or two year program (RCIA). Very telling.

Confirmation is not a sacrament in our church like baptism, and it is not necessary for salvation. As a rite, it is a mature profession of faith that is done because it is seen as a good practice by many, but it is not strictly necessary. We do allow children who have not yet been confirmed to receive the sacraments of the Church, such as the Lord's Supper.

 

[marineimaging]

Being a history buff, and wanting to learn about the early Christians, is what lead me to my conversion to the Catholic Church. Before my conversion, I believed that all I needed to do to be "Born Again Christian" was:

1. Accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior.

2. Believe and pray to him/ asking him into my heart. (the sinners prayer)

3. Repent of my sins.

4. Join a church or religious community, if I wanted, but not necessary.

5. Have a full immersion baptisim.

6. Welcoming and receiving the Holy Spirit.


After digging and reading into early Christianity, I found that history was silent on the existence of the "born again" movement. For example, as far as my studies lead me, even the Protestant Reformers such as Martin Luther, Uldrich Zwingli and John Calvin never mentioned or even said something in formality or in passsing about the born again Christian movement in any of their writings, or if they did, I missed it.

What my studies did show me though was that It wasn't until the 19th century where the idea “born again Christian" movement made its appearance in human history, and that the "born again Christian" movement can only trace its origin back in 1909-1915.


So...... as I mentiond, being a history buff of early Christianity, I would be much interested if any believer of the born again Christian movement, could show any teachings or writings supporting the born again Christian movement prior to the 19th cent. or from the early Christians prior to the Protestant Reformation.


Thank you for your input.

Is Paul's writings early enough? There is a lot not mentioned to support evangelical born again Christians but if you wish to be saved then three of those you mentioned are sufficient. Now, if you wish to convert to Catholic that is your right. If you like history, enjoy. If you like history and being Catholic, good for you. You will find the two go well together. But to say that there is more to ones salvation than accepting Jesus Christ as your savior, repenting, and being baptized..., then being a Born Again christian will never be enough because it is too simple.

I would contend, however, that our salvation in Jesus Christ is simple enough that any illiterate shepherd tending his masters sheep, at midnight, naked and freezing on a cold and lonely mountaintop can be saved. If you make it more complicated than that many souls are lost each year due to their ignorance and inability to read the gospels.