his? mine? or ours? Major disagreement over discretionary money.

[Poppyseed78]

Yes this is the first time this happened ever. Like I said he wasn't happy about paying my debt before we got married but with that there was just some grumbling and he acquiesced when his parents got involved and the couples minister spoke to him.
It was particularly shocking because he spent more on the tickets to Hamilton ( which I appreciated but didn't ask for) then on the winch which he felt he had to buy right away. Here is a bit more context, we argued about this at 4 on a Saturday and he rushed out at 5 to spend away the money he hoarded. Normally for something big and expensive like a winch he takes weeks to shop around for a deal and haggles. But for this situation he basically changed his entire personality, I have really never seen him act so rashly.

Given that this is the first time he acted this way, I would say that this is definitely something you can resolve. It would be a much bigger problem if he had a pattern of impulsive behavior.

I think this is a sign that he felt cornered. Perhaps he was afraid you would use the money he had saved, against his wishes, and so he panicked. It sounds like maybe he was also bothered by having to wait so long to buy the things he had saved up for, and it all boiled over.

I fully believe this situation can be used to actually strengthen your marriage and grow closer to one another, but you have to both be willing to talk it through with patience and understanding.

 

[pdudgeon]

Yes this is the first time this happened ever. Like I said he wasn't happy about paying my debt before we got married but with that there was just some grumbling and he acquiesced when his parents got involved and the couples minister spoke to him.
It was particularly shocking because he spent more on the tickets to Hamilton ( which I appreciated but didn't ask for) then on the winch which he felt he had to buy right away. Here is a bit more context, we argued about this at 4 on a Saturday and he rushed out at 5 to spend away the money he hoarded. Normally for something big and expensive like a winch he takes weeks to shop around for a deal and haggles. But for this situation he basically changed his entire personality, I have really never seen him act so rashly.

and actually if you brought debit into the marriage then he has reason to gripe. Especially if it's 3K.
So how were you thinking of repaying him for that loan?
or had you thought of that?

 

[lambkisses]

You did say she was gender non-binary. Much of this probably stems from that. He might be Asian sis, but his racial rant might not indicate hatred of anyone who doesn't look like him, but why would THAT come to mind at all unless it was already in there, somewhere? His name and address on the tools would have done the same thing. I don't know...

Right there is one of the reasons why I want to delve into this. My husband is very pragmatic in most regards he is one of those crazy like a fox people and I'll admit sometimes it is frustrating because in matters of faith pragmatism should not be the primary concern. But because he is one of those crazy like a fox types I am not always sure when he is crazy like a fox or just being crazy.

 

[Poppyseed78]

Right there is one of the reasons why I want to delve into this. My husband is very pragmatic in most regards he is one of those crazy like a fox people and I'll admit sometimes it is frustrating because in matters of faith pragmatism should not be the primary concern. But because he is one of those crazy like a fox types I am not always sure when he is crazy like a fox or just being crazy.

I don't understand what "crazy like a fox" means lol.

 

[pdudgeon]

Right there is one of the reasons why I want to delve into this. My husband is very pragmatic in most regards he is one of those crazy like a fox people and I'll admit sometimes it is frustrating because in matters of faith pragmatism should not be the primary concern. But because he is one of those crazy like a fox types I am not always sure when he is crazy like a fox or just being crazy.

that's really simple--to make those things he marked as repulsive as possible so that there would be almost no posibility of anyone or any pawn shop accepting them for resale.

In otherwords he flat out didn't trust you not to go behind his back and try to sell them yourself. he surely would not have done so otherwise.
Whether you ment to or not, that was the impression that you left him with;
that you would take away from him what he had worked hard and saved money to buy in order for you to get something either for yourself or for someone else outside of your family.
What he felt was your total and absolute disregard and disrespect for him. That's why he panicked.

 

[lambkisses]

I don't understand what "crazy like a fox" means lol.

He does a lot of things that seem extremely crazy or unreasonable in order to obtain some benefit. Like this one time he purposefully put tar paper on top of some of the roof shingles when the tax assessor came around it looked like the roof was damaged so it lowered the property tax bill. But the thing was the whole time he acted like he didn't know better even when my dad and my brother were telling him that the tar paper goes underneath the shingles.

 

[lambkisses]

that's really simple--to make those things he marked as repulsive as possible so that there would be almost no posibility of anyone or any pawn shop accepting them for resale.

In otherwords he flat out didn't trust you not to go behind his back and try to sell them yourself. he surely would not have done so otherwise.
Whether you ment to or not, that was the impression that you left him with;
that you would take away from him what he had worked hard and saved money to buy in order for you to get something either for yourself or for someone else outside of your family.
What he felt was your total and absolute disregard and disrespect for him. That's why he panicked.

First of all he has no reason to distrust me. The fact that I asked him means I was seeking permission before I acted on arguably what I believe to be right. And furthermore he still should not have quit church just because the pastor spoke to him about this. From what I understand all the pastor asked him to do was pray over what Jesus would want. His reaction was to demand the withdrawal of his membership in the congregation. Even if he is 100% right about the money there clearly are causes for concern. Also I never said he had to do anything.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

First of all he has no reason to distrust me. The fact that I asked him means I was seeking permission before I acted on arguably what I believe to be right. And furthermore he still should not have quit church just because the pastor spoke to him about this. From what I understand all the pastor asked him to do was pray over what Jesus would want. His reaction was to demand the withdrawal of his membership in the congregation. Even if he is 100% right about the money there clearly are causes for concern. Also I never said he had to do anything.

I honestly wouldn't have told the pastor because, at least in a mans mind, it makes them feel like you would go over them just to get what you want done. So I can see why he left that church. I mean I wouldn't have mind you. But if my wife did that I'd be embarrassed because she took something that wasn't the end of the world and shared it with the pastor. Obviously some things like if your being cheated on, abused is one thing to talk to a pastor about.

And like I said though some of the things you said sound like he is immature. But in marriage you have to give up a battle no matter who is right or wrong. Because the longer the battle, the more bitter feelings come up and the more fights will happen. We discuss everything in my marriage. If my wife wants to give someone money back in her country, she asks me. If I want to go buy something, I ask her...etc.

 

[lambkisses]

I honestly wouldn't have told the pastor because, at least in a mans mind, it makes them feel like you would go over them just to get what you want done. So I can see why he left that church. I mean I wouldn't have mind you. But if my wife did that I'd be embarrassed because she took something that wasn't the end of the world and shared it with the pastor. Obviously some things like if your being cheated on, abused is one thing to talk to a pastor about.

And like I said though some of the things you said sound like he is immature. But in marriage you have to give up a battle no matter who is right or wrong. Because the longer the battle, the more bitter feelings come up and the more fights will happen. We discuss everything in my marriage. If my wife wants to give someone money back in her country, she asks me. If I want to go buy something, I ask her...etc.

By the time I went to the pastor the money was a secondary issue. Like I said his reaction was what was the most troubling. If it was just refusing to give that's one thing. It was the impulsive rush to spend it that day (he literally tore out of the garage at 5pm to make sure he got to the off road outfitter before it closed, that in and if it self made me very fearful of his personal safety ) and his snap decision to racist up his tools just because I asked if we could get a pawn loan was why I spoke to the pastor. Asking him to pray about what Jesus wanted was more about asking him to reflect on his actions rather than to bully him into giving up money. Because by that time the money had been spent and nothing was pawnable, so it was no longer a question of if we were going to help my friend or not.

 

[Poppyseed78]

Rushing out to buy the stuff and damage his property are symptoms of a larger problem. I do not think they indicate a larger pattern of behavior. He did that because he worried that you would not listen to him and use the money anyway. While it was childish, it was understandable to an extent. You two need to work on your communication skills.

As for your talking to the pastor, that probably humiliated him. I can see how he would no longer want to attend that church.

If you do end up helping your friend, I would caution you on giving money directly. Personally, I would buy whatever it is she needs, be that a plane ticket, food, rental car, first month's rent in a new place, what have you. I would not just give cash or a check.

 

[Paidiske]

and actually if you brought debit into the marriage then he has reason to gripe. Especially if it's 3K.
So how were you thinking of repaying him for that loan?
or had you thought of that?

I don't think that's fair. The husband knew of the debt when he married. It became their debt and their joint responsibility.

My husband came into our marriage with debt. It became our debt and my contribution covered a lot of it. But I would never gripe about it or demand it be repaid; I took it on knowingly and with free consent. (It does shape my willingness to let my husband run our finances, which is where that might be relevant to the OP and her husband).

OP, it sounds like there are bigger issues to be worked through. Do you have an agreed budget? Does it have a portion for giving (which is where something like this would fit in my budget, which is why I ask)? Have you talked about what money represents to both of you and how it functions in your life? I think a good marriage counselor helping you to work through those sorts of conversations would be a good thing.

 

[lambkisses]

Rushing out to buy the stuff and damage his property are symptoms of a larger problem. I do not think they indicate a larger pattern of behavior. He did that because he worried that you would not listen to him and use the money anyway. While it was childish, it was understandable to an extent. You two need to work on your communication skills.

As for your talking to the pastor, that probably humiliated him. I can see how he would no longer want to attend that church.

If you do end up helping your friend, I would caution you on giving money directly. Personally, I would buy whatever it is she needs, be that a plane ticket, food, rental car, first month's rent in a new place, what have you. I would not just give cash or a check.

Helping my friend now is a secondary concern, I am more concerned about my husband's walk with God now. Like you said the damaging his own property and rushing to spend the money are symptoms of larger problems. And his refusal to go to church is not just to that church but any church. According to him he is "tired of all this golden rule crap" and the Bible "being used as a stick to hit him whenever anyone wants him to do something".
For the record, I still believe that we were being called to help but I would never have never spent the money or pawned anything without his consent, doing so would be against what Jesus taught about marriage. Like I said, I am more concerned about the ungodliness of his response to my request.

 

[lambkisses]

I don't think that's fair. The husband knew of the debt when he married. It became their debt and their joint responsibility.

My husband came into our marriage with debt. It became our debt and my contribution covered a lot of it. But I would never gripe about it or demand it be repaid; I took it on knowingly and with free consent. (It does shape my willingness to let my husband run our finances, which is where that might be relevant to the OP and her husband).

OP, it sounds like there are bigger issues to be worked through. Do you have an agreed budget? Does it have a portion for giving (which is where something like this would fit in my budget, which is why I ask)? Have you talked about what money represents to both of you and how it functions in your life? I think a good marriage counselor helping you to work through those sorts of conversations would be a good thing.

Yes, we do have an agreed budget and yes we do have a portion for giving, but what caused the problem was this need came up pretty much out of no where. It was one of those situations where a significant lump sum was needed and it was time sensitive. I do see his point that he saved it up from his share of the discretionary. I didn't expect him to do without, I was hoping he would be willing to front me the money and he could replenish it in the next few months with my share of the discretionary. Believe me, I tried to offer several resolutions which he shot down. I told him to spend less on me for the next few months, I offered to try to find a job to make the money, I offered to let him forgo our weekly tithe,and even with my suggestion to get a loan on the compressor I told him I would take full responsibility for getting it out of pawn. What hurt and scared me the most was his refusal to budge at all and that he thought he needed to ensure that the was no way for him to even be able to have a change of heart.

 

[ValleyGal]

Let me get this straight. He had saved money for something he wanted, but he put it aside to buy you an engagement ring. Then he put it off some more to pay off your debt – something he really did not want to have to do because it was yours, not his (my question here is why didn’t you just get a job and pay it off before you got married?).

Also, you both have a budget. It sounds like you each have an “allowance” of sorts, to spend as you see fit. You spend yours on spas and whatever else, and he saves his in order to get the things he wanted years ago that he had originally saved for. Here’s where I get a little confused. You spent yours, but he saved his (my question here is why didn’t you save yours instead of going to spas, so you would have some for helping others out as you see fit?).

So now we’ve got someone who was very generous to buy the woman he loves Hamilton tickets – now, this is after buying an engagement ring AND paying your debt.

Now after all this amazing generosity, you ask for money. He said no. You became argumentative and tried to reason with him, and this arguing made him madder and madder. Then when he was already upset about this, you asked him to pray about it, so you were really not letting this go. You then went on to try to bargain with him – more than once. You then tried to get him to pawn the things he worked so hard and long and sacrificially to get. And when that didn’t work, you then took it to the pastor.

Can you see how you persisted, you escalated, you argued, and with more intensity each time… and more threatening each time.

Your question in the OP is how can you fix this. I will tell you. You should go to him in total humility, you should acknowledge that you treated him and the family money disrespectfully, and you should ask him to forgive you for being so adamantly stubborn that he sacrifice even more than he already has for you. And then to show him you mean it, you should stop going to the spa, and put that money into a safe place for times like this, when your friend needs help, and then you should help, but that money should be money you saved, not him. In fact, what you should really do is stop going to the spa, and put that money towards something else that he really wants for his truck and surprise him with it. Maybe you can buy the parts to replace the parts he felt he had to damage in order to protect what he had worked so long and hard for.

Imo, that is how you can fix it.

As for facing your friend, help her by researching resources in your area and helping her access those resources. There are resources for women coming out of abusive relationships.

I apologize if that sounds harsh, but I honestly think people coming to your rescue and saying he is immature is an incorrect assessment. He is mature enough to have saved money, to have made financial sacrifices for you, to have a budget and stick to it. I think the thing is he finally needed to take care of himself, the same way the OP took care of herself by going to the spa. This husband has his priorities in order... and it is not being selfish for him to finally say "I want a little money for myself now." It's called self-care.

 

[Ken Rank]

Right there is one of the reasons why I want to delve into this. My husband is very pragmatic in most regards he is one of those crazy like a fox people and I'll admit sometimes it is frustrating because in matters of faith pragmatism should not be the primary concern. But because he is one of those crazy like a fox types I am not always sure when he is crazy like a fox or just being crazy.

I think I understand... still, you two really need to sit and have a talk. So many couples just can't communicate in a manner equal to the love they each claim to have for the other. Truly sis, your future as a couple really rests on the ability to communicate. If he thinks you are trying to hurt him or you think the same from him... it just won't last long. There has to be a trust and an ability to say ANYTHING to each other (in love) knowing that it isn't meant to cause hurt. It is clear though, at this point, that your friend and her issues aren't the problem. You and your husband need some quality alone time. I pray it comes together for you. Blessings.

 

[lambkisses]

I think I understand... still, you two really need to sit and have a talk. So many couples just can't communicate in a manner equal to the love they each claim to have for the other. Truly sis, your future as a couple really rests on the ability to communicate. If he thinks you are trying to hurt him or you think the same from him... it just won't last long. There has to be a trust and an ability to say ANYTHING to each other (in love) knowing that it isn't meant to cause hurt. It is clear though, at this point, that your friend and her issues aren't the problem. You and your husband need some quality alone time. I pray it comes together for you. Blessings.

Well we had our talk yesterday and it seems that this incident really was the the symptom of a really major underlying issue. So it turns out my husband is deeply resentful of both political correctness and Christianity in general. He just saw this incident as me trying to show how Christian we can be as a family. First off I told him that he is under no obligation to give my friend anything and that we should budget some money specially for him and I offered that we can look for a new church home. He told me he still believes in the salvation of Christ but he wants to live a secular conservative live. My friend needing help was just the flashpoint. So apparently he resents political correctness because he feels "socially pressured into doing things he doesn't want in the name of humanism and inclusiveness " and he is equally resentful of Christianity due to being pressured to do things in the name of the golden rule and turn the other cheek.
We did talk at length about money and what it means to our family and it seems he is at the point where he is 100 % willing to spend on us (winches, spa days, Hamilton tickets, ect) but he is now completely against any sort of giving (my friend's issue, our weekly tithe, ect). I asked him what if giving to others is more important to me than spas and shows? Could I forgo those things so we as a family could at least continue our tithe? He is convinced that the only reason I want to do that is because I have been "brainwashed by other Christians into thinking that is important to appear Christian". He seems to think that society both humanists and Christians have shamed us so much that we as individuals actually derive pleasure from sacrificing our true hearts desires for what others perceive to be the right thing to do.
I know some of these issues stem from his cultural upbringing, his parents are Chinese Christians from overseas. The Asian idea of "face" mixed with Christian virtues of temperance ,charity, and forbearance gave him and his family possibly way more opportunities for self sacrifice than other children his age, which most likely fueled his resentment. We talked again about the debt that I brought into the marriage and the issues is slightly more complicated than it being a significant sum of money. To answer everyones question, before I got married I was working to pay off that debt. It was one of those things that was not initially going to fall on him to pay. However, shortly after we got married I lost my job and was unable to find another. We discussed the situation and he said that if I wanted to work it was my choice, if I wanted to be a home maker we would be fine financially. His only caveat was that if I choose home maker he expected me to default on the debt. Initially I agreed to this even though it did feel a little wrong, eventuall my parents found out and his parents found out too and insisted we do the right thing. That led to the fight over it 3 years ago. I initially wanted payments just worked into our monthly budget but it was his parents whom insisted he pay all at once and they kept badgering him until he did. Even when I told his mother to lay off a bit her response to me is that her son cannot be trusted to actually do the right thing. I would find out later that his parents were and still are against him kitting out his truck (they believe that he needs to drive a more sensible vehicle so he would be taken more seriously professional ) and that mom saw a way to derail truck plans. Also for the record I had no idea until now this truck thing was still in the back of his mind as he didn't even mention it until I pressed him on where he got money for Hamilton tickets (I am a simple girl, I wanted to go but not if he did something dishonest).

So now what?I feel incredibly guilty that I may be the wedge that drove him from the community of faith.

 

[Ken Rank]

Well we had our talk yesterday and it seems that this incident really was the the symptom of a really major underlying issue. So it turns out my husband is deeply resentful of both political correctness and Christianity in general. He just saw this incident as me trying to show how Christian we can be as a family. First off I told him that he is under no obligation to give my friend anything and that we should budget some money specially for him and I offered that we can look for a new church home. He told me he still believes in the salvation of Christ but he wants to live a secular conservative live. My friend needing help was just the flashpoint. So apparently he resents political correctness because he feels "socially pressured into doing things he doesn't want in the name of humanism and inclusiveness " and he is equally resentful of Christianity due to being pressured to do things in the name of the golden rule and turn the other cheek.
We did talk at length about money and what it means to our family and it seems he is at the point where he is 100 % willing to spend on us (winches, spa days, Hamilton tickets, ect) but he is now completely against any sort of giving (my friend's issue, our weekly tithe, ect). I asked him what if giving to others is more important to me than spas and shows? Could I forgo those things so we as a family could at least continue our tithe? He is convinced that the only reason I want to do that is because I have been "brainwashed by other Christians into thinking that is important to appear Christian". He seems to think that society both humanists and Christians have shamed us so much that we as individuals actually derive pleasure from sacrificing our true hearts desires for what others perceive to be the right thing to do.
I know some of these issues stem from his cultural upbringing, his parents are Chinese Christians from overseas. The Asian idea of "face" mixed with Christian virtues of temperance ,charity, and forbearance gave him and his family possibly way more opportunities for self sacrifice than other children his age, which most likely fueled his resentment. We talked again about the debt that I brought into the marriage and the issues is slightly more complicated than it being a significant sum of money. To answer everyones question, before I got married I was working to pay off that debt. It was one of those things that was not initially going to fall on him to pay. However, shortly after we got married I lost my job and was unable to find another. We discussed the situation and he said that if I wanted to work it was my choice, if I wanted to be a home maker we would be fine financially. His only caveat was that if I choose home maker he expected me to default on the debt. Initially I agreed to this even though it did feel a little wrong, eventuall my parents found out and his parents found out too and insisted we do the right thing. That led to the fight over it 3 years ago. I initially wanted payments just worked into our monthly budget but it was his parents whom insisted he pay all at once and they kept badgering him until he did. Even when I told his mother to lay off a bit her response to me is that her son cannot be trusted to actually do the right thing. I would find out later that his parents were and still are against him kitting out his truck (they believe that he needs to drive a more sensible vehicle so he would be taken more seriously professional ) and that mom saw a way to derail truck plans. Also for the record I had no idea until now this truck thing was still in the back of his mind as he didn't even mention it until I pressed him on where he got money for Hamilton tickets (I am a simple girl, I wanted to go but not if he did something dishonest).

So now what?I feel incredibly guilty that I may be the wedge that drove him from the community of faith.

You're not the wedge... this doesn't happen quickly, it happens over time. This all brought out something that was much deeper and within him and honestly I fear he is headed toward atheism. The premise of being a person of faith is in submitting to the Lordship of Yeshua (Jesus). Since Adam we have been choosing between good and evil and when we come to Yeshua in faith, we are to profess him as Lord... meaning, we cease choosing between good and evil, right and wrong... and live by His standards. We cease being lord of our own lives and allow Him to become said Lord. To claim that he wants to live a secular Christian life is truly an oxymoron. That is like saying I want to be a pagan Christian, or a Muslim Christian or whatever else you want to put there. Being a humanist by definition means you want to rule your own life, he wants to be lord. Now I don't think this is rebellion, I would think based on what LITTLE I know of you two... that he has never really had a relationship with God. So what's next? Well... I hesitate to say because I don't have ALL the details and haven't spoken to HIM which matters to me. But you really need fellowship with other believers... non-dogmatic types but folks who have a genuine love of God but are also patient people. It might even be that you will attend alone from time to time... if you do, never push it in his face, just keep reflecting the love of the Lord in your words and deeds and let him SEE "true" Christianity in the woman he loves most.

 

[lambkisses]

You're not the wedge... this doesn't happen quickly, it happens over time. This all brought out something that was much deeper and within him and honestly I fear he is headed toward atheism. The premise of being a person of faith is in submitting to the Lordship of Yeshua (Jesus). Since Adam we have been choosing between good and evil and when we come to Yeshua in faith, we are to profess him as Lord... meaning, we cease choosing between good and evil, right and wrong... and live by His standards. We cease being lord of our own lives and allow Him to become said Lord. To claim that he wants to live a secular Christian life is truly an oxymoron. That is like saying I want to be a pagan Christian, or a Muslim Christian or whatever else you want to put there. Being a humanist by definition means you want to rule your own life, he wants to be lord. Now I don't think this is rebellion, I would think based on what LITTLE I know of you two... that he has never really had a relationship with God. So what's next? Well... I hesitate to say because I don't have ALL the details and haven't spoken to HIM which matters to me. But you really need fellowship with other believers... non-dogmatic types but folks who have a genuine love of God but are also patient people. It might even be that you will attend alone from time to time... if you do, never push it in his face, just keep reflecting the love of the Lord in your words and deeds and let him SEE "true" Christianity in the woman he loves most.

I am going to try to live the example you are saying. In the mean time though I am not sure how to proceed with our extended family. This issue had catalyzed other divisions in the family. One thing about my husband is he enjoys burning bridges when he feels super strong about something. When he quit church over this, he did not do so in the most subtle way. Before the blow up he was going to play a Wiseman in the church's live action nativity. When he decided to quit church he sent an email out to the test of the group apologizing for the inconvenience and that perhaps "Habib at the quick stop can take his place since if you seen one foreign guy on camel you have seen them all", our teenage nieces, my brother, and my father are in that group so it caused a bit of a stir. Our nieces(16 and 18) are wanting to opt out and so are my brother and father. You see in my family the women have always been the spiritual leaders so now my mother and my sister in law are extremely unhappy and their is strife in their households. My mother and my in laws (both my brother's wife and my husband's parents) blame me for setting off this chain reaction. Part of me wants to appeal to my husband to at least pretend for the sake of family and not leading or nieces astray but the other part gels that such an appeal would just further fuel his resentment towards Christians.

 

[Poppyseed78]

I think at this time it is best not to involve other people, including parents and other family members, in your situation. Talk to your husband, pray (alone, or together, if he's willing), but bringing other people in will only make him feel more pressured. That would likely cause him to pull even further from his faith. The more people involved, the more complicated it becomes.

May I ask how old you and your husband are? I used to make decisions rashly (still do sometimes), and can have a tendency to cut people off if they insult me grievously. But I have mellowed out over time (I'm 30 now). To an extent, I also understand your husband feeling pressured and perhaps disillusioned with the church. It's important for him to understand that although the church itself might disappoint him, God will not; and keeping his relationship with Jesus is vital. In your position, at this point I would try to make life as harmonious as possible while the dust settles. I pray for patience and wisdom for you both, strengthening of your marriage, and renewed conviction for your husband in his faith.

 

[turkle]

I thought you said that this kind of impulsive negative behavior was unprecedented. The email is another example. It seems to me that if he feels cornered, he lashes out rashly.

I'm curious...did you read ValleyGal's post? Is there a reason why you didn't respond to it? She called you to take an honest look at yourself. She gave an excellent summary of your own story. If we want change, we always need to start with ourselves.

It appears that your husband has felt cornered by you and your wishes more than once, and he has difficulty with his reactions. On the other hand, how would you react if he wanted to send money to his friend that you don't like, and asked you to pawn your engagement ring to do so? Would that be reasonable? While the comparison is not exacting, the principle is the same. You asked him to give up something of great value to him to give to someone he dislikes. Quite frankly, I think that showed a tremendous lack of compassion for your husband.

As ValleyGal said, the way you talk to him is by first apologizing for your behavior, first for asking for something unreasonable even after he said no, and secondly for bringing other people in (again) to box him in and feel pressured to do your will. While his response was childish, I can understand why he was so upset. You have set a pattern that when you don't get your own way, you find others and gang up on him.

Once you have apologized, the next step is to ask him, calmly, to tell you exactly what he is feeling. He's already told you about feel ganged up on. But what was the feeling beyond that? Is he losing trust in you? Does he feel like a child again? There is something that is tripping a trigger to his impulsive behavior, and it is a strong trigger that you should both should know about.

Most likely the best conversation will be had with a counselor, because I think it's clear that you don't communicate well with each other. A counselor can be the neutral third party who is trained to draw out the underlying issues so that you both can learn to communicate with more understanding and maturity.

I think that counseling would be an excellent place to put some of that discretionary income. It is an investment, that with the right counselor, could make all the difference in your marriage.