Hippolytus 170-235AD, A Literal Future Antichrist A Jew, That Will Sit In A Temple In Jerus

BABerean2

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Please Respond Directly To That Highlighted In Blue Below, You Have Not Answered This Claim.

As Clearly Shown, You "Completely Disregard" The Apostolic Church Fathers, Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202AD, Hippolytus 170-235AD

They All Taught Of A Future Antichrist, Abomination Of Desolation, Great Tribulation, From Their 2nd And 3rd Century Lives.

"They Didn't See Or Teach 66-70AD Fulfillment Of Matthew 24:15-31, Because They Were Well Aware That The "Second Advent" Was Tied To The Destruction Of The Antichrist, "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" Seen In Verse 21.

Jesus Christ Didn't Return To Destroy Antiochus Epiphanes, Titus, Nero, Or Whoever Else You Can Name, These Are Future Events "Unfulfilled"

Three Steps Tied Together By The "Time Stamp"

1. Verse 15 The Abomination Of Desolation Causes Verses 16-21 To Take Place, They Flee To The Mountains.

2. Verse 21 Is Caused By Verse 15, "For Then Shall Be Great Tribulation"

3. Verses 29-30 Take Place "Immediately After" Verse 21 Is Completed.


You Falsely Try To Create A 2,000 Year Continuing "Great Tribulation" To Make Your System Work, With A Claim That The "Fulfilling Of The Gentiles" Is Also Seen In This 2,000 Year Time Frame?

100% False, As "Those Day's" In Verse 29, Destroys Your Interpretation.

Just As The Apostolic Church Fathers Taught, The Future Antichrist Will Cause Verse 15 In The Abomination Of Desolation, And Jesus Christ Will Return In His Destruction.

"Future Events"!

You have yet to provide at least one Bible scholar who agrees with your interpretation of Luke 21:24.

When you come up with at least one, let me know.

....................................................

Can you tell us how many Christians were killed during the final siege of 70 AD?
Can you tell us why this happened?

.
 
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Eloy Craft

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He may have been wrong about the time of Christ's return but these are very salient points.
In fact I have one to add to the list.

When Jesus Christ was born, there was a wonder in the heavens. Virgo the virgin was clothed with the sun, the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars about her head. The constellation Leo, the lion. And she gave birth (the planet Jupiter passed from her womb where it had been for nine months, through the birth canal)

This sign has appeared twice now. Once at the Birth of Christ, and once last sept 23.
Since I believe astrology stopped pointing at truth after it pointed at the Incarnation I can see how it could be a powerful delusion for Antichrist.
 
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jgr

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"They Didn't See Or Teach 66-70AD Fulfillment Of Matthew 24:15-31, Because They Were Well Aware That The "Second Advent" Was Tied To The Destruction Of The Antichrist, "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" Seen In Verse 21.

Not these brethren.

Before you object to any of them, note that they are all recognized as church fathers in both Catholicism and Protestantism.

There are six of them to your three.


160AD Clement of Alexandria (On Matthew 24:15, The Abomination of Desolation) "We have still to add to our chronology the following, -- I mean the days which Daniel indicates from the desolation of Jerusalem, the seven years and seven months of the reign of Vespasian. For the two years are added to the seventeen months and eighteen days of Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius; and the result is three years and six months, which is "the half of the week," as Daniel the prophet said. For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction. For thus the declaration, which is subjoined, shows: "How long shall be the vision, the sacrifice taken away, the abomination of desolation, which is given, and the power and the holy place shall be trodden under foot? And he said to him, Till the evening and morning, two thousand three hundred days, and the holy place shall be taken away." ... "These two thousand three hundred days, then, make six years four months, during the half of which Nero held sway, and it was half a week; and for a half, Vespasian with Otho, Galba, and Vitellius reigned. And on this account Daniel says, "Blessed is he that cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." For up to these days was war, and after them it ceased. And this number is demonstrated from a subsequent chapter, which is as follows: "And from the time of the change of continuation, and of the giving of the abomination of desolation, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." " (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, p. 334)

160AD Tertullian Chap. Viii.--Of The Times Of Christ's Birth And Passion, And Of Jerusalem's Destruction. "Accordingly the times must be inquired into of the predicted and future nativity of the Christ, and of His passion, and of the extermination of the city of Jerusalem, that is, its devastation. For Daniel says, that "both the holy city and the holy place are exterminated together with the coming Leader, and that the pinnacle is destroyed unto ruin."(7) And so the times of the coming Christ, the Leader,(8) must be inquired into, which we shall trace in Daniel; and, after computing them, shall prove Him to be come, even on the ground of the times prescribed, and of competent signs and operations of His. Which matters we prove, again, on the ground of the consequences which were ever announced as to follow His advent; in order that we may believe all to have been as well fulfilled as foreseen. ... "Therefore, when these times also were completed, and the Jews subdued, there afterwards ceased in that place "libations and sacrifices," which thenceforward have not been able to be in that place celebrated; for "the unction," too,(6) was "exterminated" in that place after the passion of Christ. For it had been predicted that the unction should be exterminated in that place; as in the Psalms it is prophesied, "They exterminated my hands and feet."(7) And the suffering of this "extermination" was perfected within the times of the lxx hebdomads, under Tiberius Caesar, in the consulate of Rubellius Geminus and Fufius Geminus, in the month of March, at the times of the passover, on the eighth day before the calends of April,(8) on the first day of unleavened bread, on which they slew the lamb at even, just as had been enjoined by Moses.(9) Accordingly, all the synagogue of Israel did slay Him, saying to Pilate, when he was desirous to dismiss Him, "His blood be upon us, and upon our children;"(10) and, "If thou dismiss him, thou art not a friend of Caesar;"(11) in order that all things might be fulfilled which had been written of Him.(12)" (Against the Jews, Ch.8) (On the Significance of A.D. 70)

225AD Origen (On The Significance of A.D. 70) But let this Jew of Celsus, who does not believe that He foreknew all that happened to Him, consider how, while Jerusalem was still standing, and the whole Jewish worship celebrated in it, Jesus foretold what would befall it from the hand of the Romans. For they will not maintain that the acquaintances and pupils of Jesus Himself handed down His teaching contained in the Gospels without committing it to writing, and left His disciples without the memoirs of Jesus contained in their works. Now in these it is recorded, that "when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed about with armies, then shall ye know that the desolation thereof is nigh." But at that time there were no armies around Jerusalem, encompassing and enclosing and besieging it; for the siege began in the reign of Nero, and lasted till the government of Vespasian, whose son Titus destroyed Jerusalem, on account, as Josephus says, of James the Just, the brother of Jesus who was called Christ, but in reality, as the truth makes clear, on account of Jesus Christ the Son of God." (Origen Against Celcus, Book 2, ch. 13)

325AD Eusebius Pamphilius, Ecclesiastical History: (On Matthew 24:15) "--all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive. sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,-- all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus." (Book III, Ch. 5)

375AD 'John' Chrysostom, Homily St. Matthew: (On Matthew 24:15) For He brought in also a prophecy, to confirm their desolation, saying, "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation,spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let him that readeth understand."(12) He referred them to Daniel. And by" abomination" He meaneth the statue of him who then took the city, which he who desolated the city and the temple placed within the temple, wherefore Christ calleth it, "of desolation." Moreover, in order that they might learn that these things will be while some of them are alive, therefore He said, "When ye see the abomination of desolation." (Of Matthew 24:1,2)

419AD Augustine "But in coming to this point, Matthew writes this way, Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation, which was predicted by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let the reader understand. Then those who are in Judea should flee to the mountains, and he who is on the roof should not come down to take something from his house. And one is in the field should not return to take a coat. But woe to those who are pregnant and nursing in those days (Mt 24: 15-19), and so on. But Mark puts it this way, But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not to be, let the reader understand. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and him who is on the roof not come down to the house and enter to take something from his house. And let him who is in the field not return to take his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant or nursing in those days (Mk 13:14-17), and so on. But in order to show that the abomination of desolation, which was predicted by Daniel, came about when Jerusalem was stormed, Luke mentions in the same passage the words of the Lord, But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by an army, know that its desolation has then drawn near (Lk 2 1 :20). It is clear, there fore, that the abomination of desolation, of which those two evangelists spoke, was at that time established there." (Letter 199.28)
 
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klutedavid

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In Matthew 24:29 "Immediately & Those Day's" are directly tied to "Those Day's" In Matthew 24:19, You Can't Have A separation of 2000 plus years.
You cannot base your eschatology purely on the gospel of Matthew, you must include Luke.
 
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DennisTate

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Hippo saw a future Antichrist that will be a Jew, that is going to sit in a literal temple in Jerusalem made of stone.

Hippolytus Of Rome 170-235AD, Treatise On Christ And Antichrist, Chapter 6

6. Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand.

Very interesting indeed!

Could it be that there are about to be several influential leaders........
one leader who assists the Jewish people to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple......
and then a second later leader who STOPS the Jews from making sacrifices........
perhaps only allowing worship of himself instead????

Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.
 
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Truth7t7

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Well worth reading the rest as well:

CHURCH FATHERS: On Christ and Antichrist (Hippolytus)

I will also add the portion from the Didache (scholars date late 1st Century AD to early 2nd Century AD) which reflects the very early church beliefs:

Chapter 16. Watchfulness; The Coming of the Lord
Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. Matthew 24:42 But often shall you come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; Matthew 24:11-12 for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, Matthew 24:10 and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but they that endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven; then the sign of the sound of the trumpet; and the third, the resurrection of the dead; yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him. Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.

CHURCH FATHERS: The Didache
I Agree 100% Hunter!

Yes Hippolytus Of Rome 170-235AD Quotes Directly From The "Preterist" Matthew Chapter 24?

Did He See A 66-70AD Fulfillment, Not A Chance!

Thanks For The Additional Info!
 
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Truth7t7

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Important to note how the events are laid out in Luke 21. There are two horror stories. One in judgment of the Jews in 70 AD and then later future the judgment of the nations yet future.

First we have this:

Luke 21 New King James Version (NKJV)
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

No doubt in my mind this is the judgment of 70Ad against the Jews and Jerusalem. Why because there is no deliverance of Jerusalem (as promised in Zechariah 14) and the Jews are scattered throughout the empire and ushers in the times of the Gentiles in Palestine (until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled).

Yet continuing with Luke 21:

25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

This speaks of redemption. There was not redemption for Israel or the Jews in 70AD. This is yet future. Consider the audience. It is the same audience.

Some other references on Israel/Jerusalem being delivered:

Micah 2: NKJV
12 “I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob,
I will surely gather the remnant of Israel;
I will put them together like sheep of the fold,
Like a flock in the midst of their pasture;
They shall make a loud noise because of
so many people.
13 The one who breaks open will come up before them;
They will break out,
Pass through the gate,
And go out by it;
Their king will pass before them,
With the Lord at their head.”


Which goes hand in hand with this:

Ezekiel 39 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’

25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”

When have the captives of Jacob returned to where God no longer hides His face from them? Has to be future as He surely punished them and scattered them in 70AD.
I Clearly See The Events Of Luke 21 & Matthew 24 As Being The Same Event In Parallel Teachings.

As The Scripture "Clearly Teaches" In Matthew 24:15-31 Verse 15 In Daniels Abomination Of Desolation, Causes Verses 16-21 To Take Place, Flee To Mountains Verse 16, Great Tribulation Verse 21

At The Completion Of Verse 21 The Second Advent Takes Place "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" Verse 29

The Abomination Of Desolation, Great Tribulation, And Second Advent Are All Tied Together by "THOSE DAYS"!

You Can't Have A 66-70AD Abomination Of Desolation, That Causes The Great Tribulation, That Sees The Second Advent Immediately After This Tribulation Of Those Days"

Many Teach in "Error" That Those Day's Represents The Tribulation Seen In Verse 21 Is 2,000 Years Long And Waiting "False"!

Many Teach In Error That The Fulfilling Of The Gentiles Is 2,000 Years Long And Waiting "False"!

There Is No 2,000 Year Gap Between Verse 21 "Great Tribulation" & Verse 29 "Second Advent", A False Teaching.

The Events Seen Are Future, And Will Consumate At The Second Advent, "Future"

Matthew 24:15-31

Verse 15 "When You Shall See The Abomination"
Verse 19 "Those Days"
Verse 21 "For Then Shall Be Great Tribulation"
Verse 29 "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days"
Verse 30 "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"


Luke 21:20-24KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:15-21 & 29-31KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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Truth7t7

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Not these brethren.

Before you object to any of them, note that they are all recognized as church fathers in both Catholicism and Protestantism.

There are six of them to your three.


160AD Clement of Alexandria (On Matthew 24:15, The Abomination of Desolation) "We have still to add to our chronology the following, -- I mean the days which Daniel indicates from the desolation of Jerusalem, the seven years and seven months of the reign of Vespasian. For the two years are added to the seventeen months and eighteen days of Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius; and the result is three years and six months, which is "the half of the week," as Daniel the prophet said. For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction. For thus the declaration, which is subjoined, shows: "How long shall be the vision, the sacrifice taken away, the abomination of desolation, which is given, and the power and the holy place shall be trodden under foot? And he said to him, Till the evening and morning, two thousand three hundred days, and the holy place shall be taken away." ... "These two thousand three hundred days, then, make six years four months, during the half of which Nero held sway, and it was half a week; and for a half, Vespasian with Otho, Galba, and Vitellius reigned. And on this account Daniel says, "Blessed is he that cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." For up to these days was war, and after them it ceased. And this number is demonstrated from a subsequent chapter, which is as follows: "And from the time of the change of continuation, and of the giving of the abomination of desolation, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." " (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, p. 334)

160AD Tertullian Chap. Viii.--Of The Times Of Christ's Birth And Passion, And Of Jerusalem's Destruction. "Accordingly the times must be inquired into of the predicted and future nativity of the Christ, and of His passion, and of the extermination of the city of Jerusalem, that is, its devastation. For Daniel says, that "both the holy city and the holy place are exterminated together with the coming Leader, and that the pinnacle is destroyed unto ruin."(7) And so the times of the coming Christ, the Leader,(8) must be inquired into, which we shall trace in Daniel; and, after computing them, shall prove Him to be come, even on the ground of the times prescribed, and of competent signs and operations of His. Which matters we prove, again, on the ground of the consequences which were ever announced as to follow His advent; in order that we may believe all to have been as well fulfilled as foreseen. ... "Therefore, when these times also were completed, and the Jews subdued, there afterwards ceased in that place "libations and sacrifices," which thenceforward have not been able to be in that place celebrated; for "the unction," too,(6) was "exterminated" in that place after the passion of Christ. For it had been predicted that the unction should be exterminated in that place; as in the Psalms it is prophesied, "They exterminated my hands and feet."(7) And the suffering of this "extermination" was perfected within the times of the lxx hebdomads, under Tiberius Caesar, in the consulate of Rubellius Geminus and Fufius Geminus, in the month of March, at the times of the passover, on the eighth day before the calends of April,(8) on the first day of unleavened bread, on which they slew the lamb at even, just as had been enjoined by Moses.(9) Accordingly, all the synagogue of Israel did slay Him, saying to Pilate, when he was desirous to dismiss Him, "His blood be upon us, and upon our children;"(10) and, "If thou dismiss him, thou art not a friend of Caesar;"(11) in order that all things might be fulfilled which had been written of Him.(12)" (Against the Jews, Ch.8) (On the Significance of A.D. 70)

225AD Origen (On The Significance of A.D. 70) But let this Jew of Celsus, who does not believe that He foreknew all that happened to Him, consider how, while Jerusalem was still standing, and the whole Jewish worship celebrated in it, Jesus foretold what would befall it from the hand of the Romans. For they will not maintain that the acquaintances and pupils of Jesus Himself handed down His teaching contained in the Gospels without committing it to writing, and left His disciples without the memoirs of Jesus contained in their works. Now in these it is recorded, that "when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed about with armies, then shall ye know that the desolation thereof is nigh." But at that time there were no armies around Jerusalem, encompassing and enclosing and besieging it; for the siege began in the reign of Nero, and lasted till the government of Vespasian, whose son Titus destroyed Jerusalem, on account, as Josephus says, of James the Just, the brother of Jesus who was called Christ, but in reality, as the truth makes clear, on account of Jesus Christ the Son of God." (Origen Against Celcus, Book 2, ch. 13)

325AD Eusebius Pamphilius, Ecclesiastical History: (On Matthew 24:15) "--all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive. sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,-- all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus." (Book III, Ch. 5)

375AD 'John' Chrysostom, Homily St. Matthew: (On Matthew 24:15) For He brought in also a prophecy, to confirm their desolation, saying, "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation,spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let him that readeth understand."(12) He referred them to Daniel. And by" abomination" He meaneth the statue of him who then took the city, which he who desolated the city and the temple placed within the temple, wherefore Christ calleth it, "of desolation." Moreover, in order that they might learn that these things will be while some of them are alive, therefore He said, "When ye see the abomination of desolation." (Of Matthew 24:1,2)

419AD Augustine "But in coming to this point, Matthew writes this way, Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation, which was predicted by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let the reader understand. Then those who are in Judea should flee to the mountains, and he who is on the roof should not come down to take something from his house. And one is in the field should not return to take a coat. But woe to those who are pregnant and nursing in those days (Mt 24: 15-19), and so on. But Mark puts it this way, But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not to be, let the reader understand. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and him who is on the roof not come down to the house and enter to take something from his house. And let him who is in the field not return to take his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant or nursing in those days (Mk 13:14-17), and so on. But in order to show that the abomination of desolation, which was predicted by Daniel, came about when Jerusalem was stormed, Luke mentions in the same passage the words of the Lord, But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by an army, know that its desolation has then drawn near (Lk 2 1 :20). It is clear, there fore, that the abomination of desolation, of which those two evangelists spoke, was at that time established there." (Letter 199.28)
Clement, Tertullian, And Origen The Heretic, Were All From The Alexandrian Schools, That Mixed Philosophy With Biblical Teachings. Eusebius And Chrysostom Are Both Adherents Of Origens Heretical Arianism, Augustine Was Out In Left Field With Philosophy.

One Thing I Do Know jgr, Is The Second Advent Is Seen In Matthew 24:29-31, That You Deny Is Seen, Because This Scripture "Destroy's" The Teaching Of 66-70AD Fulfillment.

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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jgr

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Clement, Tertullian, And Origen The Heretic, Were All From The Alexandrian Schools, That Mixed Philosophy With Biblical Teachings. Eusebius And Chrysostom Are Both Adherents Of Origens Heretical Arianism, Augustine Was Out In Left Field With Philosophy.
They're all still acclaimed Church Fathers, with the recognition that their good outweighed their bad.
 
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Truth7t7

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Very interesting indeed!

Could it be that there are about to be several influential leaders........
one leader who assists the Jewish people to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple......
and then a second later leader who STOPS the Jews from making sacrifices........
perhaps only allowing worship of himself instead????

Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.
Dennis I See It Like Hippolytus, A Future Human Man A "Jew", A Future Literal Temple Being Built, A Future Literal Sacrifice Being Resumed.

I Can't Disagree He Will Stop A Future Sacrifice, And Demand Worship As God The Messiah.
 
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Truth7t7

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They're all still acclaimed Church Fathers, with the recognition that their good outweighed their bad.
I disagree, what you consider as fathers, I would consider enemies.

Eusebius for a prime example, Arian heretic, persecutor of the Church in synods, judging christians to banishment who opposed his heretical Arianism, a puppet of the Roman Emperor.

Church Father? "Not"!

Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, Hippolytus, I don't find them bound by the herseies and persecutions of the church identified.

Was Mormon Joseph Smith A Church Father?

Was JW'S Charles Taze Russel A Church Father?

Is Pope Francis A Church Father?
 
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jgr

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I disagree, what you consider as fathers, I would consider enemies.

Eusebius for a prime example, Arian heretic, persecutor of the Church in synods, judging christians to banishment who opposed his heretical Arianism, a puppet of the Roman Emperor.

Church Father? "Not"!
Not to you, since you ignore all of their positive contributions.

But to Protestantism and Catholicism, who recognize those contributions, and who take an objective and balanced view, these brethren still qualify.

And that is as it should be.
 
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Truth7t7

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Not to you, since you ignore all of their positive contributions.

But to Protestantism and Catholicism, who recognize those contributions, and who take an objective and balanced view, these brethren still qualify.

And that is as it should be.
2 Corinthians 11:26
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren
;

I disagree, what you consider as fathers, I would consider enemies, false brethren.


Eusebius for a prime example, Arian heretic, persecutor of the Church in synods, judging christians to banishment who opposed his heretical Arianism, a puppet of the Roman Emperor.

Church Father? "Not"!
 
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klutedavid

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I disagree, what you consider as fathers, I would consider enemies.

Eusebius for a prime example, Arian heretic, persecutor of the Church in synods, judging christians to banishment who opposed his heretical Arianism, a puppet of the Roman Emperor.

Church Father? "Not"!

Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, Hippolytus, I don't find them bound by the herseies and persecutions of the church identified.

Was Mormon Joseph Smith A Church Father?

Was JW'S Charles Taze Russel A Church Father?

Is Pope Francis A Church Father?
You may need to add the apostle Peter to this list of yours.

Paul opposed Peter to his face in Antioch, obviously Peter had an alternate gospel.

Galatians 2:11
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

This event at Antioch occurred more than seventeen years after Christ had risen.

Also, be careful what you do with Irenaeus.

Intrinsic to his (Irenaeus) writing is that the surest source of Christian guidance is the church of Rome, and he is the earliest surviving witness to recognize all four gospels as essential. (wikipedia)

We use Irenaeus to establish the canon of the New Testament, discard Irenaeus and you can throw the four gospels in the bin.
 
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jgr

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2 Corinthians 11:26
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren
;

I disagree, what you consider as fathers, I would consider enemies, false brethren.


Eusebius for a prime example, Arian heretic, persecutor of the Church in synods, judging christians to banishment who opposed his heretical Arianism, a puppet of the Roman Emperor.

Church Father? "Not"!
You've enumerated some of his failings.

Now balance that with some of his contributions.
 
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Truth7t7

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You may need to add the apostle Peter to this list of yours.

Paul opposed Peter to his face in Antioch, obviously Peter had an alternate gospel.

Galatians 2:11
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

This event at Antioch occurred more than seventeen years after Christ had risen.

Also, be careful what you do with Irenaeus.

Intrinsic to his (Irenaeus) writing is that the surest source of Christian guidance is the church of Rome, and he is the earliest surviving witness to recognize all four gospels as essential. (wikipedia)

We use Irenaeus to establish the canon of the New Testament, discard Irenaeus and you can throw the four gospels in the bin.
If You Have Been Following My Posting, I Stand "WITH" Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-235AD, And Hippolytus 170-235AD

I Oppose "The Alexandrian School" Of Philosophical Thought In Clement, Tertullian, Arius, And Origen, And Those Who Followed Their Philosophical And Arian Teachings, Chrysostom, Eusebius.
 
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jgr

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If You Have Been Following My Posting, I Stand "WITH" Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-235AD, And Hippolytus 170-235AD

I Oppose "The Alexandrian School" Of Philosophical Thought In Clement, Tertullian, Arius, And Origen, And Those Who Followed Their Philosophical And Arian Teachings, Chrysostom, Eusebius.
Here's a question for you:

If Eusebius had been as rabid a futurist as yourself, would you still consider him a heretic?
 
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klutedavid

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If You Have Been Following My Posting, I Stand "WITH" Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-235AD, And Hippolytus 170-235AD

I Oppose "The Alexandrian School" Of Philosophical Thought In Clement, Tertullian, Arius, And Origen, And Those Who Followed Their Philosophical And Arian Teachings, Chrysostom, Eusebius.
The problem you will have is establishing the New Testament canon. We rely on all of the authors of the first three centuries, to justify the letters to be considered as canon.

I can use the New Testament to establish doctrine, but I cannot have the New Testament without these early authors.
 
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Truth7t7

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You've enumerated some of his failings.

Now balance that with some of his contributions.
I Will Stick With The Persecuted Brethren In Athanasius And Eustathius who were condemned and banished by Eusebius the "False Brethren" because they "True Brethren" opposed his Arian heresies.

2 Corinthians 11:26
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren
;
 
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Truth7t7

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Here's a question for you:

If Eusebius had been as rabid a futurist as yourself, would you still consider him a heretic?
What Does That Have To Do With The Fact That Eusebius Was A Heretic Following The Arian Heresy Of Origen And Arius, Or The Fact He Condemned And Banished Athanasius & Eustathius For Opposing These Heresies, with Eusebius being a pawn for the Roman Emperor?

Eusebius Isn't A Church Father Of Christianity As I See It, A Persecutor Of The Church, A Tool Of The Roman Emperor, "False Brethren".

"Simple"!
 
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