Hi, I'm Clare.

[Clare73]

I'm new here. Looks like a great site!

Wanna' warn everyone that my communication style is kinda' formal, the old brain-wiring thing.

But don't let it bother you, and if you find me hard to understand, fire back at me and let me know.

Looking forward to being in the Word of God with you.

In the faith,
Clare73

Looking forward to being in the Word of God with you.

In the faith,
Clare73

I think the Word of God is clear that the unregenerate man cannot see or understand the spiritual things of the gospel without the Holy Spirit (1Co 2:14)l, and therefore is unable to choose to believe what he cannot see (Jn 3:3) as true.

That being the case, the unregenerate man must have the Spirit through rebirth in order to see and understand what can only be spiritually discerned.
Unregenerate man can do absolutely nothing spiritual on his own, for he is spiritually dead.

But rebirth of man's spirit necessary for faith is only from God (Jn 1:13), and God does not give rebirth to all.
So to whom does God give it?

This I think is answered in Abraham/Isaac/Jacob and Nahor/Ishmael/Esau, where God chose one over the other for no other reason than that his purpose in election would be accomplished. It was not based on anything/woks any of them did, but only on his sovereignly free call.
We make God indebted to us if election is based on anything

And just as God has hardened some (Ro 11:7-8), but not all of Israel, preventing any belief of them in Jesus of Nazareth for millennia, and has chosen only a remnant by grace for belief (Ro 11:4-5),
so his choice for rebirth is based solely in his sovereign freedom and will, and not on anything anyone has done.

We make God indebted to us if we base his choice of us on meeting certain conditions. But Scripture says:
"Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him?" (Ro 11:35)


salvation--11:14

Please explain how you see that progressing through the chapters.

If the gospel is true, why doesn't Israel believe? (see Jn 5:37-47)
Israel has been cursed and cut off after having been chosen as God's people. v.2

Just as God blessed Ishmael (Ge 17:20) and Esau (Ge27:39-40) outside election to God's people, so God blessed the Jews outside electtion to salvation. Their greatest honor is that Christ came from them. vv.4-5
adoption--not saving adoption, which bestowed Canaan on them
Paul calls these "advantages" (3:1), not blessings.

Then has God broken his promise to Israel?
No, for his promises were not to all the descendants of Abraham, but to his children who believe (vv. 6-8). Israel's unbelief is not inconsistent with God's promise.

Israel's unbelief is not inconsistent with nature (person) of God--v.14
Absolute prerogative and sovereignty--v.15
Absolute independence--v.17

Sin was necessary to manifest God's justice, wrath, judgment and to manifest his power by judging, conquering and saving from sin--v.22
Divine love is rendered conspicuous when it shines in the midst of wrath and judgment--v.23
Israel's unbelief is not inconsistent with prophecy (word of God)--v.25
God had not revelaed himself to the Gentiles but had specifically excluded them, as he now abandoned Israel to exile--v.26
God foretold he would abandon mst of Israel--v.27
had God not elected a remnant, all of Israel would have been as Sodom and Gomorrah, destroyed; a type of the human race, who would have perished if left to their choice.--27-29

Israel's unbelief is not inconsistenw with means--v.30
Israel's failure to attain righteousness (salvation)--v.30-33

Chap 10--Digression (cause of the rejection)

Did not submit to (rejected) God's righteous. Righteousness by works overthrows righteousness of God because they are opposed to one another--v.3
Christ is the completion of the Law and his righteousness by the Law is imputed to those who believe--v.4

the Law cannot save because the Law is works--v.5, and only faith (heart) saves--vv.6-11

righteousness does not come from works--v.6, but from simple faith--vv.8-11, which is not at all hard or difficuot, we do not have to climb or dive for it, it is plain and easy, a work done in us (heart and mouth)

assent to gospel truth and consent to gospel terms--v.9
wipes out any dispensational distinction between ways the two groups are saved, no special plan for the Jews--v.12
order: faith, call on God, salvation--vv.12-13

argument that Israel had never been told--vv.14-15
faith comes by and rests in God's word alone, not the docgtrines of men--v.17
answer: they were told--v.16, but would not hear--vv.18-21
to those seeking, it can be found. Because God preached to the Gentiles in creation, Paul preaches to them--v.18
both Moses and Isa prophesied the same event--vv.19-21
they did not understand because they refused to--v.21

[]u]Chp 11[/u] (in wrath he remembered mercy)
Did God reject his people? No.
foreknew - chosen as objects of his love (Dt 7:7-8)--v.5
He has reserved a remnant--vv.1-5
and hardened the rest--vv.7-10
there is a Jewish remnant of the OT and a Jewish remnant of the NT which together constitute all Israel of v.26--v.5

the covenant was not broken because it is fulfilled in the spiritual seed--v.7
spirit of slumber (stupor) - those whom God will destroy, he binds up with a spirit of slumber--v.8
So God's purposein rejecting them was to destroy them? No, it was salvation of the Gentiles--v.11.

tzadik, the point is that "what God required of His people after they were cursed" is not the point. I'm not the one missing it.

What God required from His people even after they were cursed is not the point because God's New Covenant people are not cursed, and are not without a Temple, and a Priesthood, and an altar, and a sacrifice, and a Way to have our sins atoned so that we might come into God's presence and dwell in His House and worship and serve Him all the days of our lives.

God's people have not been cursed and cut off from God for the past 2000 years, that is not what Jesus came to do and not what his sacrifice has accomplished.

Yes, it's called a New Covenant, in which there is a new temple, and a new High Priest, and a new sacrifice.

Those who are under the New Covenant are free from the Law, which cannot be obeyed anyway because the things which God provided for the Law's observance have all been taken away rendering obedience to "all" God's commadments "impossible," which you freely admit, but fail to understand the meaning of prefering to believe that God's people are to live as though they are cursed, without a Way to obey everything God commands.

The New Covenant Gospel freeing us from the Old Covenant Law does not mean we are lawless.

Look at my avatar. I chose it because that is the cornerstone of my faith, of my doctrine, of my life. When I say that I partake of the body and blood of Jesus, which means I live my life trusting in and depending upon what that sacrifice affords, then I am continually observing the Passover, but in a new and different and living way, which is in fact the very fulfillment of what the old passover foreshadowed and indeed, why the old passover happened in the first place. Surely you don't think Israel being enslaved in Egypt, and then being delivered from that slavery, was just some meaningless Bible story do you? That was all engineered by God for a reason, to teach us, to foreshadow how God would accomplish our deliverance from slavery to sin. And every year, generation after generation, God commanded an "appointment" (feast) with His people to teach them and their children, and their children's children, this lesson, about how God delivers his people from their slavery.

But God is no longer keeping the Passover "appointment" (feast) with His people according to the ordianances of the Old Covenant because that teaching (Torah) has come to pass, and God is keeping the Passover "appointment" (feast) with His people according to the ordinances of the New Covenant, which is to eat the flesh and drink the blood of His Son.

You do realize that the word "observe," as in the commandment to observe the Passover, means "to keep," in the sense of holding it close to your heart, "to guard," in the sense of protecting, "to give heed," meaning to pay attention, listen, "to watch and wait upon," in the sense of giving attendance to, "to celebrate," in the sense of rejoicing in.

I "observe" the Lord's Passover of the New Covenant, which is the substance, the lessons God intended us to learn from Torah (the "Teachings"). The New Covenant Passover is what the Old Passover was all about, a lesson to teach us about, instruct us in, and direct us to the Way that God would deliver us from our slavery to sin ... by the blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.

Do you not see how this, rather than destroying the Law, in fact establishes the Law, forever, even without a temple, and a priesthood, and an altar, and a sacrifice "made according to the Law", earthy, corruptible, temporal.

You do believe, don't you, that under the New Covenant Jesus is the Passover Lamb whose blood saves God's people from judgment? Well if the Old Covenant Passover "lamb" could be symbolic of a "man," why is it so difficult for you to believe that other things in the Law could also have been symbolic?

Your insistence that the Law can only be taken in it's literal sense is exactly the mistake so many of the Jewish people made and what led the religious leaders to crucify their own Messiah. Their blind zealotry for the letter of the Law to the exclusion of any spiritual or symbolic meaning is why they did not recognize the Messiah when he came, because he did not fulfll the promises the way they had determined he should based on their literal interpretation of the Scriptures that excluded any symbolism and spiritual meaning.

If the man Jesus is what the passover lamb symbolized, then why is it impossible that the day of Salvation is what the 7th day symbolized, and Jesus is the New Covenant Sabbath?

"Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

"Keep" is also to do, to obey.

 

[Chilaha]

Salutations Clare73. Welcome to Christian Forums.

 

[Habakk]

Hello Clare, Welcome to CF. Enjoy the forums.

 

[servant of Merciful Love]

 

[Clare73]

Thanks, guys!

 

[Krissy Cakes]

Hello

Welcome to Christian Forums!

I am so glad that you decided to join the site. This site is full of wonderful Christians who love to praise God, fellowship and just have a good time. I am sure that you will quickly meet many new brothers and sisters in Christ. If you are wondering where a good place to get started on the site would be, I would recommend that you check out the Edification and Life Stages boards. Edification allows you to participate in Biblical studies, to ask other Christians questions, and to post prayer requests. Life Stages is designed for people to meet and talk to people at different stages in their lives. There are many more options on this site, and if you would like for me to recommend some more for you please feel free to send me a private message.

I would also recommend that you check out the Blessings Exchange. This board allows you to play games and participate in fellowship threads to earn extra blessings, the site's currency. You can use your blessings for such things as purchasing items for your Living Avatar or creating a Pet.

The simplest way to earn blessings is by posting. You may earn anywhere from 5-10 blessings per post depending on post size. You may also get a Job here at Christian Forums to earn extra blessings. All you are required to do is post and collect your salary every week! The more you post, the more blessings you earn. You must have at least 100 posts to select a job. After you start earning blessings, you can deposit those blessings in a savings account at the Christian Forums Bank. By depositing your blessings in a savings account, you are able to collect a 1% interest on those savings each week! I do advise you to only deposit blessings once per week since the timer resets each time you deposit or withdraw blessings.


If you have any questions please feel free to send me a message!!

Krissy_Cakes -•- Your CF Welcoming Angel

 

[saved24]

Welcome Clare. Hope you enjoy your time here on the forums. The blessings exchange is not working right now, although you do get a few blessings after posting. Take care and God bless.