Here's another tithing question...

[JuJube]

I posted on another thread about whether or not everyone thought it was scriptural to claim tithes on their income tax. We give out of our gross which I consider the first fruits, and not the net. Never have read anywhere in the bible about anyone getting anything back from what they gave God. I know we render unto Caesar what is Caesars, then why not claim just what we make and not what we give to the Lord. Give to Caesars what is Caesar, and give to God what is Gods. It also seems to be the incentive for some charitable organizations that you can claim it at the end of the year to get it back. I know I could be choking on a gnat on this one...but it bothers me. Well, then the thought occurred to me that some folks don't think that tithing is a NT command. That is is OT.(10%) What do you all think? I"m not wrestling to much with this part of the equation...just the claiming it on our income tax. Again this year I did not claim it. Someone said (not you all...at least not yet) I was being stupid (poor stewardship is another way of putting it) by not getting back my taxes. They could very well be right. Thoughts on either would be appreciated.

 

[rainbowpromises]

I hadn't even considered that part of it.
I don't claim what I put in the offering, but for a different reason. My husband is ok if I put small change in the offering, but he would hit the roof if he thought I was putting in more. For that reason I don't tithe as well. But I give what I feel led to give and I give anonymously.

 

[BigNorsk]

I think you are kind of getting in a bind between the two kingdoms.

When the tax law gives you a deduction you are free to take it. It is not that you are getting your tithe back, what you are determining is how much you will pay in taxes. You probably notice that at the end of the whole thing the government generally doesn't send you money but you send the government money. Therefore, you are not getting anything, including your tithe, back.

Marv

 

[JuJube]

I hadn't even considered that part of it.
I don't claim what I put in the offering, but for a different reason. My husband is ok if I put small change in the offering, but he would hit the roof if he thought I was putting in more. For that reason I don't tithe as well. But I give what I feel led to give and I give anonymously.

I know what you are going through, I am unequally yoked also. I wish I could turn this all over to him! But he doesn't have a clue. He knows I tithe my check, and doesn't have a problem with it...at least doesn't say he does.

 

[rainbowpromises]

I know what you are going through, I am unequally yoked also. I wish I could turn this all over to him! But he doesn't have a clue. He knows I tithe my check, and doesn't have a problem with it...at least doesn't say he does.

For us it is all we. We are business partners. He does most of the work though.

 

[psalm511013]

Tithing is the training wheels of giving. Steady bicyclists no longer need training wheels, but wobbly bicyclists do. If they don't have training wheels they won't learn to ride. Likewise, most people who never learn to tithe never really learn to give. That is why the average American Christian gives 2.5 percent.


Obviously, we need those training wheels! If you believe in grace giving, don't you find it ironic that grace giving is producing one-fourth the spiritual fruit of the law? New Testament grace is not a license that frees us to clutch tighter to material wealth. The bar has been raised.New Testament believers are called upon to be far more sacrificial and generous.


Without a guidepost, where do you start your giving? Why not start where God had his people start throughout the Old Testament? Why not start with the tithe?

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I never really gave this any thought.

I do claim most of my tithe on my taxes. The part I don't is cash that was given. But, if I write a check or put it on a credit card, I deduct it.

This made me think even further. I have Christian charities that charge my credit card monthly for support. I get reward dollars on my credit card. For every $100 I give, I would get $1 gift card at Toys R Us. It does not sound like a lot, but it does add up. Is that wrong as well?

Personally, I do not see anything wrong with deducting the tithe. It is part of our governments system. We are not supposed to ignore our government. We must follow their laws. We must pay our taxes and be good citizens. If you are only following their guidelines and taking honest deductions, I do not see a problem with it.

I do not give in order to receive the deduction. I give because I want to help others. I never even know how much I have given until tax time when I run my report.

Maybe that is the key to your answer. If you give your tithe from the heart not expecting anything in return. . . great. If you only do it for the deduction, it really is not a tithe. It is merely a donation.

 

[BigNorsk]

If the credit at Toys-R-Us bothers you, use it to buy toys for needy children at Christmas time. Life sure gets full of details if one tries to turn tithing into a law doesn't it?

Marv

 

[fireman1173005]

I know that most people say if you tithe on the gross then you don't have to tithe on refunds. If you tithe on the net then you should.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Tithe is based on total gross income based on the Old Testament teachings. In Spirit of "cheerful giver", people can tithe based on the total amount refunded. Christians are not obligated by law to give money but they are to give freely, OR another choice is: if you "itemized" how much you "tithe" during 2006, you should tithe that amount.

In the New Testament, we see the words "give" or "giving" or "cheerful giver" because they are related to grace. (see Mark 12:41-44, Romans 12:8). Christian's submission to God is to be accepted by God, and must be sincere from the heart. Whatever is done out of habit is not approved. "And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." (Colossians 3:17). Financial quality is measured by the Christ-like living of those who submits and give to their local church because they love Jesus Christ spiritually.

 

[Ben12]

I was part of a religious system of man who believed; if you can’t pay tithes for what ever reason; you’re a back slider; might be a little old lady who can‘t pay her rent on a fixed income. What a sad deal; it is time god’s people should help people; instead demand beyond tithes their needs.

There is a higher order then this; under not the law but grace; not under the old Levical order but the Melchisedec order. When ever there is a ministry out there that takes tithes I know they are trusting men for there livelihood and not God. All the ministries I support will give you God’s Word; and never; I mean never ask or beg for money. They will send boxes of tapes; what ever you ask. As well as literature that will take you six month to a year to read if you read thirty pages a day; a never take a dime; yes they will receive; but not take. They have no Hugh denomination or system to support them; only their faith in God will provide every need; some do not even have local bodies; yet god will provide. These men and women of God serve thousands of God’s people; And God takes care of them beyond your imagination.

Hebrews 7:5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

I do; and have run across a ministry that sells God’s Word or take tithes; I just don’t support them. I do not believe in fleecing God’s flock. Jesus turned over the money changers table in the temple; still thousands of ministries all they do is beg; and steal from God’s people or sell God‘s Word as merchandise.

 

[BigNorsk]

You know part of the problem with trying to use the Bible to figure out how to tithe is that tithes were not paid on money earned. There was tithe paid on spoils of war and there were tithes paid on the increase of livestock and on grains and wine, but there were never tithes paid by workmen earning wages.

Paying tithe on wages is fine if that's how you want to determine a level of giving, but when people start to ask detailed questions about this nickle and that penny, I worry that they believe tithing is some sort of law applicable to today. If some preacher is telling you to tithe your wages, you really have to ask him of the details since it isn't told to tithe wages in the Bible.

I would note that the way the Jews understand scripture is to have three different tithes.

Do those of you who tithe also use the tithe for feasting and trips such as was proscribed by the Bible?

The ISBE has a good article on tithes in the Bible.

Marv

 

[Rion]

I don't, but I don't condemn those who do. *shrug*

 

[edie19]

I think you are kind of getting in a bind between the two kingdoms.

When the tax law gives you a deduction you are free to take it. It is not that you are getting your tithe back, what you are determining is how much you will pay in taxes. You probably notice that at the end of the whole thing the government generally doesn't send you money but you send the government money. Therefore, you are not getting anything, including your tithe, back.

Marv

Agreed - I think we often forget that it is our money that the government takes from us, money we worked hard for. It's ours, not the government's. (Just call me an anarchist)

 

[psalm511013]

When ever there is a ministry out there that takes tithes I know they are trusting men for there livelihood and not God. All the ministries I support will give you God’s Word; and never; I mean never ask or beg for money.

God doesn't have any printing presses. God doesn't have a key to the US Treasury. God doesn't point a finger and create a pot of gold. This post implies exactly that, that God will just pour out a blessing from thin air. Although He could, He almost never does. God's work is done through His people.

God does expect His people to share that which He has given them, and nothing you have was not given you by God. Why would someone want to be stingy with God's blessings? There is the crux of the issue many have: They think what they have is what they earned, and that isn't the case at all. Everything is a gift from God, and if someone begins to think otherwise, it will quickly be taken from them.

 

[ConservativeChristian97]

I see tithing as giving from our heart. Are we truly giving from our heart if we're expecting to get the money back at the end of the year?

 

[edie19]

I see tithing as giving from our heart. Are we truly giving from our heart if we're expecting to get the money back at the end of the year?

For myself - I do give from the heart and there are charitbable deductions I could take that I don't. I don't give because I'm expecting something back at the end of the year. Neither do I feel it is wrong to take advantage of what deductions the government allows us.

 

[FallingWaters]

I posted on another thread about whether or not everyone thought it was scriptural to claim tithes on their income tax. We give out of our gross which I consider the first fruits, and not the net. Never have read anywhere in the bible about anyone getting anything back from what they gave God. I know we render unto Caesar what is Caesars, then why not claim just what we make and not what we give to the Lord. Give to Caesars what is Caesar, and give to God what is Gods. It also seems to be the incentive for some charitable organizations that you can claim it at the end of the year to get it back. I know I could be choking on a gnat on this one...but it bothers me. Well, then the thought occurred to me that some folks don't think that tithing is a NT command. That is is OT.(10%) What do you all think? I"m not wrestling to much with this part of the equation...just the claiming it on our income tax. Again this year I did not claim it. Someone said (not you all...at least not yet) I was being stupid (poor stewardship is another way of putting it) by not getting back my taxes. They could very well be right. Thoughts on either would be appreciated.

Let's say you made $40,000 last year - gross,
and you tithed $4,000 because that's 10%,
and the federal government took $3000 tax money,
but now they owe you a refund.
No matter how much money you get back,
you already tithed on "all your increase".
Even if you report your charitable contributions as a tax deduction,
you still paid the tithe.
You're not getting the tithe back,
you're getting back money the government took from you.

That's how I see it anyhow.

 

[JuJube]

I see tithing as giving from our heart. Are we truly giving from our heart if we're expecting to get the money back at the end of the year?

Exactly CC97. That is what I am struggling with. Not with the giving...but expecting the getting back. Thank you!

 

[JuJube]

Let's say you made $40,000 last year - gross,
and you tithed $4,000 because that's 10%,
and the federal government took $3000 tax money,
but now they owe you a refund.
No matter how much money you get back,
you already tithed on "all your increase".
Even if you report your charitable contributions as a tax deduction,
you still paid the tithe.
You're not getting the tithe back,
you're getting back money the government took from you.

That's how I see it anyhow.

Falling Waters, thank you, and I understand that. I don't know why I struggle with getting something back from claiming my giving to the Lord. I have no problem with putting all the other down, but my tithe (or whatever you want to call it) I believe should not be included. I honestly do not have a problem with others doing it. It is set up in our law for us to do that, but just because it is the law of the land doesn't always mean that we should do it. Common law marriage is living together and saying you are married. In some states if not all, it is a legitimate marriage. Well, are we then going to make the marriage ceremony held by a pastor in a church obsolete? I'm not saying to claim your giving is wrong. I was just hoping to get some feedback on it. I appreciate all the imput. I'm praying!