Here We Go Again: Virulently Anti-Gay Pastor Resigns...

Ana the Ist

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Looks like it was from 2012.

Do you have links to the articles that identify it as junk science?

I've looked around and can find 4 or 5 more referencing the 2012 study, but nothing in regards of any subsequent studies that refuted or dismissed the hypothesis.

There have been other data reference points to use that also seem to fall in line with the idea that those who outwardly express the most vehemently anti-gay sentiments, seem to coincide with certain behaviors that indicate otherwise.

I won't link the article directly, simply due to some subject matter in there that would violate forum rules, but if you'd like to find it, it's on buzzfeed, and the article title is:
According To <insert adult website name here>, The South Watches More Gay inappropriate content Than Any Other Part Of The U.S.

In a nutshell, in states where the majority of the populations are anti-gay (at least publicly, and in terms of how they vote), they have the highest percentage of distinct users (determined by IP address to weed out the cases of the same user repeat-watching) searching for content of the Gay and Trans genre.

Now, the possibility exists that is a small segment of people all watching the content...however, it's more likely that there are some people who are bashing it when they're out in public, but when they're alone on their PC when nobody is watching, it's a different story...


However, I know a lot of conservatives like to dismiss theories like these simply because they perceive it as a "gotcha"-style/"loaded question" tactic from the left where they're being presented with the premise "You're either supportive of us, or you're secretly gay yourself".

But in reality, the idea is worth consideration. In most cases, hating a certain attribute is a learned behavior and not something that someone is just going to start doing out of the blue. So it stands to reason that if someone was being taught to hate a certain thing, it likely mean that their parents, community, or social circles are against that thing...so a person who secretly has those feelings, who lives among them, and wants to remain accepted by the group, is likely to be the most vocal in trying to convince the rest of the group "I'm not one of those!" in order to not be shunned.

It's not really unlike how kids with a domineering parental figure at home, who constantly rails against "weakness" and "wimps", will often times act out in ways that are aggressive toward others simply to try to prove to everyone "I'm not wimp" due to being taught at home that it's a terrible thing and something unacceptable to their father.

Generally speaking, when you have a test that says some version of "we had people look at pictures and words, and tested their reaction time to see how they secretly/subconsciously/implicitly feel about x" you're talking about the implicit association test....which is now considered junk science.

Not only is it useless for predicting behavior...but it's useless for determining someone's biases.
 
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iluvatar5150

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RestoreTheJoy

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...but your examples aren't in the same ballpark, as they're actions that do have a direct negative impact on someone other than the one engaging in them.

For instance, if I steal your car...you no longer have your car. That negatively impacted you.

If you hate the way mustard tastes, me eating mustard doesn't impact you negatively.


When discussing the subset of "phobia" that refers to "irrational aversions", it's key to point out what "rational" and "irrational" are.

Irrational would be where you want to treat non-victimizing aversions in the same manner that you'd victimizing ones.

So for instance, if you hate mustard...deciding not to eat it or buy it is completely rational. Pushing to use the legal system in order to limit the actions of other people who eat mustard because of your mustard-dislike would be irrational.
Sexual immorality - of whatever variety - is sin. Period. Sin negatively affects everyone.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Sexual immorality - of whatever variety - is sin. Period. Sin negatively affects everyone.

So I'll ask in this thread like I've asked in many others...

If it's all sin, and "all sin negatively affects everyone", (I assume you mean to varying degrees, as I'm sure you're not claiming that two men down the street being in a relationship is impacting you the same as if someone robbed you at gunpoint)

...then why, with regards to sins that have very little impact on others, is there so much of a disproportionate fixation on this one "low-impact sin" in particular?

For instance, the "sin" of not caring about the earth, dumping trash everywhere, and polluting water supplies, etc...without dispute...have a substantially larger impact on others when someone commits it, yet, I've never heard a staunch evangelical take the same hard-line stance/vocal objection to littering that they have to homosexuality. The sad reality is, there are people out there who would allow themselves to be more offended by seeing two men holding hands, then they would be to seeing some of the ecological aftermath of corporations dumping waste in rivers...and that's particularly disappointing.

There are larger ministries that even go as far as paying for telemarketing campaigns to call people to attempt to raise money for lobbying to fight against it, and sponsor candidates that oppose it.

Overeating (aka, damaging your own body 'the temple') is a sin, why not the same outcry against that? I would go as far as saying that people causing their own severe chronic health conditions has a greater impact on me than someone else being gay. Someone else being gay doesn't put a massive drain on public health funding.

Or, if that example doesn't tickle your fancy, let's go with the sin of smoking cigarettes... definite negative impacts on others. Ironically enough, I've heard more southern evangelicals railing against smoking restrictions on the grounds of "if they want do that, they should be allowed"

So, in a nutshell, your "it's sin, and all sin impacts everyone" reasoning is flawed to say the least (and seems to just be a cop-out), because in order for that to be even remotely true, all "sin" would need to have equitable impact on the lives of others...otherwise it's not reasonable to treat them all the same.

Thus the reason going 10 mph over the speed limit vs. vehicular homicides don't carry the same penalty even though they're both "driving infractions"...any logical person understands that you don't put the same restrictions on things that have very little impact that you would on something that has a huge impact.

This is where many fundamentalists just need to bite the bullet and just come out and admit that there position is derived exclusively from their religious text, and can't be supported with any form of secular or non-biblical reasoning. It seems as if they always are inclined to try to defend their disproportionate outrage with at least some form of logical reasoning, but I hate to be the one to tell you...there is none. Very few just want to flat out admit "I hate the sin of homosexuality more than other, often times more impactful, sins because of religious upbringing...of course, I understand why they try to concoct a "logical" defense instead of that...because if they just said that, it would be very evident that their line of reasoning wouldn't pass 1st amendment standards as laws can't be made, respecting an establishment of religion (they must pass "The Lemon Test").
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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So I'll ask in this thread like I've asked in many others...

If it's all sin, and "all sin negatively affects everyone", (I assume you mean to varying degrees, as I'm sure you're not claiming that two men down the street being in a relationship is impacting you the same as if someone robbed you at gunpoint)

...then why, with regards to sins that have very little impact on others, is there so much of a disproportionate fixation on this one "low-impact sin" in particular?

For instance, the "sin" of not caring about the earth, dumping trash everywhere, and polluting water supplies, etc...without dispute...have a substantially larger impact on others when someone commits it, yet, I've never heard a staunch evangelical take the same hard-line stance/vocal objection to littering that they have to homosexuality. The sad reality is, there are people out there who would allow themselves to be more offended by seeing two men holding hands, then they would be to seeing some of the ecological aftermath of corporations dumping waste in rivers...and that's particularly disappointing.

There are larger ministries that even go as far as paying for telemarketing campaigns to call people to attempt to raise money for lobbying to fight against it, and sponsor candidates that oppose it.

Overeating (aka, damaging your own body 'the temple') is a sin, why not the same outcry against that? I would go as far as saying that people causing their own severe chronic health conditions has a greater impact on me than someone else being gay. Someone else being gay doesn't put a massive drain on public health funding.

Or, if that example doesn't tickle your fancy, let's go with the sin of smoking cigarettes... definite negative impacts on others. Ironically enough, I've heard more southern evangelicals railing against smoking restrictions on the grounds of "if they want do that, they should be allowed"
Well, you would hear me take a hard line against littering, against dumping chemicals in waterways, against all of the corruption happening in government and big business, just the same as with sexual immorality. It hurts all of us. Overeating hurts all of us with higher health care costs (which are already artificially high to fund insurance and big pharma cartels, but that's another thread). Smoking - and those nasty Juul things that are also causing disease that they are marketing to young people now - hurts all of us.

ALL of it hurts all of us. You can separate things out if you want, by your own standards, but I don't care about your standards. I care about God's standards, and He makes them pretty clear, if you get into His Word and look.
 
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Nithavela

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Sexual immorality - of whatever variety - is sin. Period. Sin negatively affects everyone.
How does two consenting adult females having sexual relations negatively affect you?
 
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Nithavela

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Well, you would hear me take a hard line against littering, against dumping chemicals in waterways, against all of the corruption happening in government and big business, just the same as with sexual immorality. It hurts all of us. Overeating hurts all of us with higher health care costs (which are already artificially high to fund insurance and big pharma cartels, but that's another thread). Smoking - and those nasty Juul things that are also causing disease that they are marketing to young people now - hurts all of us.

ALL of it hurts all of us. You can separate things out if you want, by your own standards, but I don't care about your standards. I care about God's standards, and He makes them pretty clear, if you get into His Word and look.
How many threads have you started about littering?
 
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