Here is the truth, like it or not.

[gideons300]

I made this post on my own OP as it got taken over to "discuss" in agape love, of course (yeah, right) how much sin is allowed in our lives. I tried to re-rail the thread but it seems that too was simply pushed aside to continue the "loving discussion". So I bowed out of my own post. Ahhh, the joys of Christian forums.

Is it just my jaded perspective, or is there really little true agape love, or patience, or kindness and longsuffering, treating others better than ourselves, even if....ESPECIALLY if.... they disagree with us?

Only when we are sick and tired of having great doctrine all tied up in nice little bundles, but with no agape love flowing from our veins, and cry out of more will we see any change. I pray we do it willingly, for I fear God will have to force us to confront what we have become, form without substance, being "right" trumping being Christ-like more often than not. A LOT more often.

If the veil was torn away from our hearts, our "joking", "our wit", our "lightheartedness", our cute little emoticons, our slapping each other on the back when they "get in a good one" against any who are not found in our camp, who dare to not believe like we believe, I think it would shock many if the spirit behind the attitude in our postings was truly seen. "Just sayin" is, more often than not, a prideful affront to the spirit of holiness that is supposed to possess us.

May God open all of our hearts to the lateness of the hour and the need for seeking His face in a way we never have till now. If we do not, "that day" will come upon us unaware, and we will one day curse the fact we took such a blasé attitude towards the true state of our souls.

It is when our prayer closets become as important to us as our Bible hermeneutics (whatever the heck that it! LOL) that we will finally know we are on the right path. Hunger MUST proceed being filled. Brokenness must preceed being made every whit whole.

This assuring ourselves of our spiritual security is dangerous indeed. If we do not seek His face as if our lives depend upon it, we will have a long time to regret that decision.

Here is the truth, like it or not. Jesus must be Lord, and that is NOT something we grow into. Absolute surrender is salvation and nothing less. All our pearls. This price should have been paid when we got saved, but we have not understood. All. All on the alter. Living sacrifices. Our "progressive technique" does not lead any to this place, but how hard it is for us to admit such a thing. Saints who have served the Lord for decades are not a whit closer to surrender than the day they were first saved. More religious> perhaps. More holy, set apart for God's use with Him allowed to finally be the potter? Sorry, we get a big FAIL here. Am I wrong in this statement?

Many will say, "But it is a free gift. You are turning it into legalism." Far from it. Heck, I believe in "hyper-grace" where God keeps us from falling by our trusting Him to simply do what He promised for us, to set us free indeed. At the root of all our theological arguments, hearts that lack hunger for more, more of Him, more of His Holy nature that can stare down the temptations of satan is far too often the heart that rules the roost. May God awaken us from our stupor and lead us to put on the Lord Jesus and make NO provision for the flesh (to exist!). It is the only way to victory. It MUST become our testimony.

As to the "free gift" misunderstanding, we so easily forget that to whom much is given, much is required. Will we pat each other on the back and assure ourselves grace makes it unnecessary to fight for a holy heart, as we buy into satan's master deception, or will we do the noble thing and get before God and ask Him if we are living with Him as both savior AND Lord?

Look, this is all I ask. Will each reader simply pray as they take a deep look inside themselves to see if we truly even want to walk as He walked, as He wants US to walk, or are we content to just "make heaven", and living just inside the walls of heaven is enough for us. So our mansion is a bit of a hike to Jesus's place, but "hey, it is HEAVEN! Who cares about being holy and righteous in real time as long as we have it positionally, right? Why get all radical about our eternal souls, right?"

At least in my mind, our "acts of sin" are not nearly the issue as our satiated and contented hearts...without godliness or agape love, with the end bearing down upon us. Hunger and brokenness is our only way out if that is the state of our salvation. Now if you find yourselves pressing in for more, may God bless and encourage you and may each find a deeper and deeper revelation of what God's grace is capable of doing in our walks.


Blessings. I love you all, every single one of you.

Gideon

 

[Yahu]

Here is the truth, like it or not. Jesus must be Lord, and that is NOT something we grow into. Absolute surrender is salvation and nothing less.

Once again you seem to be confusing spiritual maturity with salvation. Now IF you are talking about the 'salvation of the soul' verses the 'salvation of the spirit', I can agree. But we work on the salvation of our soul for the rest of our lives as we renew our minds and become more christlike.

NO ONE ever gets totally there. We ALL FALL SHORT of His glory.

 

[gideons300]

Once again you seem to be confusing spiritual maturity with salvation. Now IF you are talking about the 'salvation of the soul' verses the 'salvation of the spirit', I can agree. But we work on the salvation of our soul for the rest of our lives as we renew our minds and become more christlike.

NO ONE ever gets totally there. We ALL FALL SHORT of His glory.

I remember Leonard Ravenhill saying that we as Christians far too often try to make it easy on potential converts, and not explain to them the cost of following Jesus, what the "transaction" entails. We think the free gift eliminates us doing anything on our part, so we help them out by pulling them out of the birth canal too quickly. We get great numbers this way, but the commitment, the forsaking all that we have to possess Him, and BE possessed by Him, is sadly lacking. Without the Lordship issue dealt with, we can spend years.....decades.... trying to grow from fleshly believers to spiritual ones, yet the only thing we do is get more religious, not more free.

There is no doubt that the change God seeks in each of us to holy loving saints, full of spiritual fruits is a lifetime endeavor, as God makes us fruitful vines. But the getting freed from the grip of the old man was not intended to be so. That is why Paul told us to die to sin as Jesus died to sin....ONCE. Once that is out of the way, and we have put on the new man, THEN the process truly begins, the addition of life into our hearts, the flourishing of spiritual fruits that are God's work in us.

But unless we are empowered to stare down satan when temptation comes at us, we will spend our whole life trying to overcomes sins of the flesh as they appear, rather than putting off the flesh itself, the true root of sin and getting established in the new creature.

Paul said it best:

"Nothing profits but a new creature."

May God open our eyes to see the deep truth of that verse.

Blessings, brother

Gideon

 

[Yahu]

I remember Leonard Ravenhill saying that we as Christians far too often try to make it easy on potential converts, and not explain to them the cost of following Jesus, what the "transaction" entails. We think the free gift eliminates us doing anything on our part, so we help them out by pulling them out of the birth canal too quickly.

Salvation IS a free gift. All we have to do is accept it. That gift is free by His grace (not our works) BUT the rewards we earn in the kingdom do require work. Getting in the door is just the beginning. The REWARDS of the kingdom, those that INHERIT positions of authority and wealth in that kingdom, require great effort on our part.

You seem to think to be saved, you have to be fully sanctified. They are NOT the same thing. Someone who gains salvation on their death bed gets into the kingdom BUT they will have no spiritual maturity and no reward or heavenly riches. The same is true for those who gain their 'fire insurance' but don't grow spiritually. They are NOT cast into the lake of fire but they hold no position of glory within the kingdom. I guess heaven still needs the janitors and gardeners. The goal is a position like 'ruler over nation', 'priest' or king that shares the throne room. Only the overcomers gain the REWARDS. It does NOT require overcoming to gain salvation. The lukewarm are still in the kingdom but of a lowly caste in the kingdom. They are still Christians.

Getting into the kingdom isn't the goal. The goal is to INHERIT within the kingdom. Those even with great sin in their life can still get into the kingdom but they do not INHERIT.

This Ravenhill was obviously a false teacher that IMO will end up in the 'outer darkness' as a result. We are warned by Paul about those that teach a different salvation and gospel. It is no difference then those of Paul's day that required conversion to Judaism and circumcision. They taught a different path to salvation. It is a works based salvation.

Any salvation teaching that require anything more then faith and repentance on our part is false teachings. Works are not require for salvation but are required for eternal rewards in the kingdom as well as our spiritual growth.

Now if you want to condemn those that live in the flesh but claim grace to cover all, well Paul did the same thing. That is the opposite extreme to living in bondage to religious law, a works based salvation. The middle ground is the correct position as being led by the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't require INSTANT spiritual maturity. It is something we are led towards. Those that live in the flesh and misuse grace will still suffer the consequences when they stand before the judgement seat of Christ. Those consequences will be eternal. It is the unsaved that stand before the white throne judgement of the Father and face the lake of fire.

Setting the standard so high that few can ever gain salvation is a doctrine straight out of the ancient paganism taught in Baal worship promoted by the anti-christ spirit. It is covered by one of Job's pagan friends where he says that even the angels were not good enough, how can man meet the standards of Yah, you might as well serve the pagan gods because they don't set the standard so high.

By preaching your position, you are serving goals of the enemy. It is as simple as that and you will have my pity when you stand before the judgement seat of Christ for the consequences.

 

[GRACE WINS EVERYTIME!]

I made this post on my own OP as it got taken over to "discuss" in agape love, of course (yeah, right) how much sin is allowed in our lives. I tried to re-rail the thread but it seems that too was simply pushed aside to continue the "loving discussion". So I bowed out of my own post. Ahhh, the joys of Christian forums.

Is it just my jaded perspective, or is there really little true agape love, or patience, or kindness and longsuffering, treating others better than ourselves, even if....ESPECIALLY if.... they disagree with us?

Only when we are sick and tired of having great doctrine all tied up in nice little bundles, but with no agape love flowing from our veins, and cry out of more will we see any change. I pray we do it willingly, for I fear God will have to force us to confront what we have become, form without substance, being "right" trumping being Christ-like more often than not. A LOT more often.

If the veil was torn away from our hearts, our "joking", "our wit", our "lightheartedness", our cute little emoticons, our slapping each other on the back when they "get in a good one" against any who are not found in our camp, who dare to not believe like we believe, I think it would shock many if the spirit behind the attitude in our postings was truly seen. "Just sayin" is, more often than not, a prideful affront to the spirit of holiness that is supposed to possess us.

May God open all of our hearts to the lateness of the hour and the need for seeking His face in a way we never have till now. If we do not, "that day" will come upon us unaware, and we will one day curse the fact we took such a blasé attitude towards the true state of our souls.

It is when our prayer closets become as important to us as our Bible hermeneutics (whatever the heck that it! LOL) that we will finally know we are on the right path. Hunger MUST proceed being filled. Brokenness must preceed being made every whit whole.

This assuring ourselves of our spiritual security is dangerous indeed. If we do not seek His face as if our lives depend upon it, we will have a long time to regret that decision.

Here is the truth, like it or not. Jesus must be Lord, and that is NOT something we grow into. Absolute surrender is salvation and nothing less. All our pearls. This price should have been paid when we got saved, but we have not understood. All. All on the alter. Living sacrifices. Our "progressive technique" does not lead any to this place, but how hard it is for us to admit such a thing. Saints who have served the Lord for decades are not a whit closer to surrender than the day they were first saved. More religious> perhaps. More holy, set apart for God's use with Him allowed to finally be the potter? Sorry, we get a big FAIL here. Am I wrong in this statement?

Many will say, "But it is a free gift. You are turning it into legalism." Far from it. Heck, I believe in "hyper-grace" where God keeps us from falling by our trusting Him to simply do what He promised for us, to set us free indeed. At the root of all our theological arguments, hearts that lack hunger for more, more of Him, more of His Holy nature that can stare down the temptations of satan is far too often the heart that rules the roost. May God awaken us from our stupor and lead us to put on the Lord Jesus and make NO provision for the flesh (to exist!). It is the only way to victory. It MUST become our testimony.

As to the "free gift" misunderstanding, we so easily forget that to whom much is given, much is required. Will we pat each other on the back and assure ourselves grace makes it unnecessary to fight for a holy heart, as we buy into satan's master deception, or will we do the noble thing and get before God and ask Him if we are living with Him as both savior AND Lord?

Look, this is all I ask. Will each reader simply pray as they take a deep look inside themselves to see if we truly even want to walk as He walked, as He wants US to walk, or are we content to just "make heaven", and living just inside the walls of heaven is enough for us. So our mansion is a bit of a hike to Jesus's place, but "hey, it is HEAVEN! Who cares about being holy and righteous in real time as long as we have it positionally, right? Why get all radical about our eternal souls, right?"

At least in my mind, our "acts of sin" are not nearly the issue as our satiated and contented hearts...without godliness or agape love, with the end bearing down upon us. Hunger and brokenness is our only way out if that is the state of our salvation. Now if you find yourselves pressing in for more, may God bless and encourage you and may each find a deeper and deeper revelation of what God's grace is capable of doing in our walks.


Blessings. I love you all, every single one of you.

Gideon

Please check out this book on GRACE:https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Revolu...d=1470142527&sr=8-2&keywords=jesus+revolution

 

[jiminpa]

It's interesting how we have redefined "grace" to mean only "mercy" or worse "forced salvation," but true grace is empowering. If we take the grace that God offers we will walk in righteousness, because that's what grace is, but it is not popular to say so, because there is a cost, but not a charge, to that grace. It's free but not easy. If you walk in grace you will not be the same, and you will have to join the battle. Or you can call mercy "grace" and walk around feeling safe in the middle of a war you are pretending isn't waging all around you, but you will get caught in the crossfire sooner or later.

Good word, as usual Gids. It challenged and reminded me in a very good way.

 

[Weathering Storms]

In order for you to accept the salvation Jesus offers, we need to understand that it is free, but only in that we had to do nothing to earn it. It was obviously not free to God - He paid the ultimate price.
We live in a world of cheap grace. Say a prayer, get baptized, and your ticket to heaven is punched. But Jesus didn't say "Know who I am and you'll be saved."
He said "Follow Me."
In order for your salvation to be real, Jesus must be given Lordship over your life. If there is no change in you, there was no salvation. Salvation is not guaranteed because of your beliefs. Scripture says even the demons acknowledge who Jesus is, and tremble. If He is not Lord of your life, you are not saved.

God does not sanctify to the utmost all at once. If any of us were given a list of things God wants changed in our lives, we'd go hide. Sometimes, there are areas of our lives that He corrects immediately, sometimes He waits until we have had a few victories over sin to point out other areas that need work. It is an on-going process that will not be completed until we arrive home. CAN we live without sin? No. We are all guilty of sinful thoughts and attitudes, if not actions. But when we recognize these and immediately ask for forgiveness, they are forgiven.

One thing people forget. The changes we make in our lives as Christians are not to receive grace or mercy, but as a result of receiving them. Just like you would be grateful to someone who saved your life at great sacrifice to themselves, we should be eternally grateful to Christ who did just that. We owe Him perfect obedience. It is a goal never achieved this side of heaven, but strived toward every day.

In gratitude, we should be affecting whatever changes God points out to us, to become more like Christ. If you do not see the need, then you do not in any way understand salvation, and are lost.

While this argument may not be resolved any time soon, rather than argue over whether sanctification is instant or builds over time, why not just say that we must live as righteously as possible, while learning more and more in depth how God's correct definition requires us to change.

This is why I do not believe OSAS. I believe someone on their death bed can come to Christ and go to heaven. But if that person somehow recovers, and goes on to live a sinful, unholy, unGodly life, then the "free" deathbed salvation is lost.

 

[hislegacy]

Gal 3:1
You crazy Galatians! Did someone put a hex on you? Have you taken leave of your senses? Something crazy has happened, for it’s obvious that you no longer have the crucified Jesus in clear focus in your lives. His sacrifice on the cross was certainly set before you clearly enough.

2-4 Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God? Or was it by responding to God’s Message to you? Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts what was begun by God. If you weren’t smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it? Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!