Here is some advice about personality types we can often find in our pews

[Michie]

As I mentioned in another thread, I just saw a documentary where a pastor brought this problem up. Here is an article from OCF that brings up some issues. Have any of you dealt with these personality types in your Church? I picked up right away Norma McCorvey was a very needy personality type and would shift with the wind depending on her needs at the time.

Have you experienced this in Church or your everyday life? How did you handle it? Read the article below and see if you have ever had to deal with these types. How did you handle it if you did?
*****************************

Eric Berne, in his excellent books on psychological transactions between people, Games People Play and What Do You Say After You Say Hello, addresses the possible genesis of neediness as something other than simply the having of real needs. In Games People Play, which examines transactions between people in the short term, Dr. Berne suggests that these psychological games or transactions always have a psychological twist at the end.

One of these games is “Why don’t you…yes, but…” In this game the helper (read small group) tries everything to assist. “Why don’t you do (and something is suggested).” The emotionally needy person responds, “Yes, but I tried that and it doesn’t work.” This continues until the helper is ultimately defeated, realizing that nothing will help. That’s the payoff for the needy one. The helper is no smarter, no more capable, no better than the needy one—and they just proved it.

Continued below.
Dealing with an emotionally needy personality - Officers' Christian Fellowship

 

[Ronit]

As I mentioned in another thread, I just saw a documentary where a pastor brought this problem up. Here is an article from OCF that brings up some issues. Have any of you dealt with these personality types in your Church? I picked up right away Norma McCorvey was a very needy personality type and would shift with the wind depending on her needs at the time.

Have you experienced this in Church or your everyday life? How did you handle it? Read the article below and see if you have ever had to deal with these types. How did you handle it if you did?
*****************************

Eric Berne, in his excellent books on psychological transactions between people, Games People Play and What Do You Say After You Say Hello, addresses the possible genesis of neediness as something other than simply the having of real needs. In Games People Play, which examines transactions between people in the short term, Dr. Berne suggests that these psychological games or transactions always have a psychological twist at the end.

One of these games is “Why don’t you…yes, but…” In this game the helper (read small group) tries everything to assist. “Why don’t you do (and something is suggested).” The emotionally needy person responds, “Yes, but I tried that and it doesn’t work.” This continues until the helper is ultimately defeated, realizing that nothing will help. That’s the payoff for the needy one. The helper is no smarter, no more capable, no better than the needy one—and they just proved it.

Continued below.
Dealing with an emotionally needy personality - Officers' Christian Fellowship

Really I didn't know that about Norma. Sad. Randall Terry was her friend

 

[crossnote]

This continues until the helper is ultimately defeated,

This struck me funny from the article and may be the core of the problem.
My approach would be to give the person the best advice I know of. If they receive it fine, if not, clarification would be welcomed but to approach it as some kind of battle where I can 'get defeated'? Umm, no.

 

[Michie]

Really I didn't know that about Norma. Sad. Randall Terry was her friend

Norma seemed to have a need for constant attention and would flip on a dime to keep getting it. Very strange personality.

 

[Ronit]

Norma seemed to have a need for constant attention and would flip on a dime to keep getting it. Very strange personality.

Wow I didn't know that. How sad.

 

[Michie]

Wow I didn't know that. How sad.

Very sad.

 

[Michie]

So I had to wash garden dirt off but I had several people when I joined the Church that turned very suffocating. None of them ended well. I feel bad about it but how do you separate from a relationship in Church?? Has anyone done it?

 

[Michie]

This struck me funny from the article and may be the core of the problem.
My approach would be to give the person the best advice I know of. If they receive it fine, if not, clarification would be welcomed but to approach it as some kind of battle where I can 'get defeated'? Umm, no.

What about if there was an established relationship and it became to burdensome to continue?? In a Church setting?

 

[Ronit]

So I had to wash garden dirt off but I had several people when I joined the Church that turned very suffocating. None of them ended well. I feel bad about it but how do you separate from a relationship in Church?? Has anyone done it?

You just do it. You just quit talking to them. Or you can be straight with them. Whatever you want to do.
Good luck
Ronit

 

[Michie]

You just do it. You just quit talking to them. Or you can be straight with them. Whatever you want to do.
Good luck
Ronit

I feel bad because one man I was pretty close to recently died. We never really reconciled.

 

[Ronit]

I feel bad because one man I was pretty close to recently died. We never really reconciled.

I'm sorry. I do understand Our Lord comfort you. You will see your friend again someday

 

[crossnote]

What about if there was an established relationship and it became to burdensome to continue?? In a Church setting?

As the author stated in his last sentence...
"But in the love of Jesus Christ, through the guidance of the Spirit, and under the direction of God the Father, as people to whom a trust has been given, we can expect to minister appropriately and to lead lovingly. For, as Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 2:16, “We have the mind of Christ.”

I agree. My point was not to see the counselling situation as a battle to 'conquer' or be 'defeated' as stated by Eric Berne in the OP..."This continues until the helper is ultimately defeated"

 

[bèlla]

I feel bad about it but how do you separate from a relationship in Church?? Has anyone done it?

I've done it in the past. I met someone with a similar personality. She was kind and generous and sincerely loved the Lord. But marital problems led her to seek companionship in other places. She desired lots of time and attention and wanted my involvement in all she did. But our gifting differed and the Lord never suggested the same.

At some point He began to intervene. She spoke candidly about her marriage. One day I received a word and posed a question. I asked how she married someone with the challenges he possessed without knowing. She revealed the limited tenure of acquaintance which explained it all.

An acknowledgment followed a little later. She shared what He conveyed in her quiet time about smothering me and suggested she inquire about my well-being. She talked about herself all the time.

God permitted the connection for many reasons. It was instrumental in recognizing the internal changes that occurred when I returned to Him. Her need exceeded my capacity and it was burdensome. No amount of giving could sate it.

We revisited this lesson on many occasions over the years as I've encountered others. What He impressed was my inability to take on the challenges I'd addressed in the past. I wouldn't have the stamina to come alongside others in the way I'd done. I had too much on my plate and it would wear me out.

I've helped many friends through difficult hardships. But I volunteered. They didn't shove them in my lap and expect me to act. I treasure those experiences a great deal. But its taxing now. I can't handle it.

Helpfulness compelled me to take on things I shouldn't have picked up. But I know better now and I'm mindful of my capacity, demands, and calling. I work within that spectrum. The biggest change was allowing the Lord to form my alliances with friends and the opposite sex. I got out of the way.

He separated us eventually. The connection wasn't sustainable. I'd have to avoid her and that's unpleasant. Its a catch-22 at times. I have a genuine concern for others. But someone who requires a lot attention or daily contact will exceed my threshold. They may require someone with a greater allowance of time and gifting to minister to them.

I know my limitations. We've worked that out intimately. Just because I understand the issue doesn't mean I'm the one He desires to handle it. I'm more hands-off today. I wait for His confirmation before committing myself. That alleviates a lot of strain and disappointment for everyone.

~Bella

 

[Michie]

I've done it in the past. I met someone with a similar personality. She was kind and generous and sincerely loved the Lord. But marital problems led her to seek companionship in other places. She desired lots of time and attention and wanted my involvement in all she did. But our gifting differed and the Lord never suggested the same.

At some point He began to intervene. She spoke candidly about her marriage. One day I received a word and posed a question. I asked how she married someone with the challenges he possessed without knowing. She revealed the limited tenure of acquaintance which explained it all.

An acknowledgment followed a little later. She shared what He conveyed in her quiet time about smothering me and suggested she inquire about my well-being. She talked about herself all the time.

God permitted the connection for many reasons. It was instrumental in recognizing the internal changes that occurred when I returned to Him. Her need exceeded my capacity and it was burdensome. No amount of giving could sate it.

We revisited this lesson on many occasions over the years as I've encountered others. What He impressed was my inability to take on the challenges I'd addressed in the past. I wouldn't have the stamina to come alongside others in the way I'd done. I had too much on my plate and it would wear me out.

I've helped many friends through difficult hardships. But I volunteered. They didn't shove them in my lap and expect me to act. I treasure those experiences a great deal. But its taxing now. I can't handle it.

Helpfulness compelled me to take on things I shouldn't have picked up. But I know better now and I'm mindful of my capacity, demands, and calling. I work within that spectrum. The biggest change was allowing the Lord to form my alliances with friends and the opposite sex. I got out of the way.

He separated us eventually. The connection wasn't sustainable. I'd have to avoid her and that's unpleasant. Its a catch-22 at times. I have a genuine concern for others. But someone who requires a lot attention or daily contact will exceed my threshold. They may require someone with a greater allowance of time and gifting to minister to them.

I know my limitations. We've worked that out intimately. Just because I understand the issue doesn't mean I'm the one He desires to handle it. I'm more hands-off today. I wait for His confirmation before committing myself. That alleviates a lot of strain and disappointment for everyone.

~Bella

I had several instances when I first joined the Church.

All pretty hair raising.

This man that just recently died was elderly but he clung to me like a vine. But we were good friends for awhile. Until he started calling everyday repeatedly. Admittedly, I often brought food to him because he was not the best at taking care of himself. It just got overwhelming with the calls and it started making me super uncomfortable. I finally picked up the phone in exasperation and told him it was too much but it made things very uncomfortable at Church. I saw his prayer requests in the prayer book which always made me sad but I hit myself limit. But I can’t say I do not feel some guilt about it.

The second was I was asked to take a godparent role. I should not of done it but they knew no other fellow Catholics so I did so. Ended up they moved, wanted me to move too. Out of state! the mother ended up getting married outside the Church and they expected us to take the kids if something happened to the mom. I was supposed to be a spiritual guide but they expected other things which ruined the whole thing. It was just pressure.

Another was a lady in RCIA that the priest kind of paired me up with and she ended up dropping out. I watched her kids when she went to counseling, etc. All she talked about was her marriage and sex life and a very unfortunate show and tell incident with one of her kids that tied in with all that.

Another was a gay woman in RCIA that wanted to get pregnant in ways that the Church does not condone, etc. Another drop out.

Another single woman who also was all about talking about sex, etc. wanted me to go out with her....

It was so pressure filled. So against what we were supposed to believe. You are not supposed to be having bad relationships in Church. But breaking off a relationship or even taking it down a notch in the Church is super difficult. You cannot help but question yourself and the witness you are giving. That’s why I wanted to know if anyone recognized this and experienced it themselves and how they handled it. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be a pastor or a priest. But what I watching that McCorvey documentary really brought some patterns to my attention.

I’d like to hear anybody’s experience with a fellow parishioner and how they handled it. I can’t say I do not feel some guilt since Richard died.

 

[bèlla]

I had several instances when I first joined the Church.

I met the woman I mentioned shortly after my deliverance. It was during a period when former associations were laid down in deference to my faith. I was very patient and significantly more tolerant than I might have been in different circumstances. I didn't include that in my response. But it was a factor.

It just got overwhelming with the calls and it started making me super uncomfortable. I finally picked up the phone in exasperation and told him it was too much but it made things very uncomfortable at Church. I saw his prayer requests in the prayer book which always made me sad but I hit myself limit. But I can’t say I do not feel some guilt about it.

Did he have family and friends? Do you feel you pulled away in error?

The second was I was asked to take a godparent role. I should not of done it but they knew no other fellow Catholics so I did so.

It appears many of your experiences reinforce the necessity for boundaries and ignoring your intuition about the connection. You must consider what the friendships are feeding within you. More importantly, there's the need to address the compromises you've made. No is an important part of healthy relationships. We can't blindly appease others. It leads to abuses and the belief we're being taken advantage of.

So against what we were supposed to believe. You are not supposed to be having bad relationships in Church.

Churches are venues filled with sick and hurting people. I would expect greater degrees of dysfunction within its walls.

I cannot imagine what it would be like to be a pastor or a priest.

Pastors and priests are given specific guidelines and instruction to offset the problems you've noted. Few would have the degree of personal contact and constancy you mentioned. They learn how to establish boundaries in school and early ministry experiences. The majority are warned about the negative consequences of violating that line.

I’d like to hear anybody’s experience with a fellow parishioner and how they handled it. I can’t say I do not feel some guilt since Richard died.

The problem is two-fold. They're attracted to you for a reason. That's the question you have to answer. It could be a quality or personality trait which draws them. They're responding to something.

In my case, I'm kind and encouraging. I have an ability to believe in impossible feats of faith. And I'm a tough cookie. If you're broken that's like manna. But my spirit discerns the neediness and has an internal warning. A reaction which gets my attention. So I don't get sucked in.

When I came to the site, I used to get a lot of messages constantly. Sometimes I'd answer a question and the person would direct others to me privately. You can't accommodate everyone who wants your ear. They don't mean any harm. But I'm only one person.

I don't converse with anyone on a daily basis outside of my daughter and the gentleman I'm dating or considering for companionship. That's my line. I don't transgress that boundary. Because I don't enjoy the consequences of doing so.

Sometimes the person needs counseling or a measure of fellowship you're incapable of providing. You may lack the experience or gifting to handle it. No, doesn't mean you're uncaring. You can serve them in others ways. Like prayer, an encouraging word, or card.

You need to forgive yourself and seek the Lord. Ask to Him to lift the burden and guilt you're expressing and request His assistance in making divine connections. Ask Him to send you the people He desires you to serve. To make it evident in your heart and spirit when you encounter them.

Its like the game Operation. That's the body. You can't turn a hand into a foot. It's ill-prepared for the work. We're no different. But we forget that in our haste to get involved.

~Bella

 

[Michie]

I met the woman I mentioned shortly after my deliverance. It was during a period when former associations were laid down in deference to my faith. I was very patient and significantly more tolerant than I might have been in different circumstances. I didn't include that in my response. But it was a factor.



Did he have family and friends? Do you feel you pulled away in error?



It appears many of your experiences reinforce the necessity for boundaries and ignoring your intuition about the connection. You must consider what the friendships are feeding within you. More importantly, there's the need to address the compromises you've made. No is an important part of healthy relationships. We can't blindly appease others. It leads to abuses and the belief we're being taken advantage of.



Churches are venues filled with sick and hurting people. I would expect greater degrees of dysfunction within its walls.



Pastors and priests are given specific guidelines and instruction to offset the problems you've noted. Few would have the degree of personal contact and constancy you mentioned. They learn how to establish boundaries in school and early ministry experiences. The majority are warned about the negative consequences of violating that line.



The problem is two-fold. They're attracted to you for a reason. That's the question you have to answer. It could be a quality or personality trait which draws them. They're responding to something.

In my case, I'm kind and encouraging. I have an ability to believe in impossible feats of faith. And I'm a tough cookie. If you're broken that's like manna. But my spirit discerns the neediness and has an internal warning. A reaction which gets my attention. So I don't get sucked in.

When I came to the site, I used to get a lot of messages constantly. Sometimes I'd answer a question and the person would direct others to me privately. You can't accommodate everyone who wants your ear. They don't mean any harm. But I'm only one person.

I don't converse with anyone on a daily basis outside of my daughter and the person I'm dating or considering for companionship. That's my line. I don't transgress that boundary. Because I don't enjoy the consequences of doing so.

Sometimes the person needs counseling or a measure of fellowship you're incapable of providing. You may lack the experience or gifting to handle it. No, doesn't mean you're uncaring. You can serve them in others ways. Like prayer, an encouraging word, or card.

You need to forgive yourself and seek the Lord. Ask to Him to lift the burden and guilt you're expressing and request His assistance in making divine connections. Ask Him to send you the people He desires you to serve. To make it evident in your heart and spirit when you encounter them.

Its like the game Operation. That's the body. You can't turn a hand into a foot. It's ill-prepared for the work. We're no different. But we forget that in our haste to get involved.

~Bella

Richard had family and friends. I don’t know, we just connected at first but I think he started developing a crush maybe.

Anyway, some of these connections were through my priest. I’m definitely a nurturer within reason. But at the time I was new to the Church and was trying to find my grounding myself. During this time I was also visting hospital, county and nursing homes. I felt really stretched and felt like I was denied a honeymoon period to just settle in. Richard’s death just made me revisit these experiences. I hate that it happened but it gets to a point that it becomes unhealthy.

 

[bèlla]

Richard had family and friends. I don’t know, we just connected at first but I think he started developing a crush maybe.

I suspected that might be the case. But I didn't want to ask out of courtesy.

It is easy for men and women to develop feelings when engaging intimately. From my perspective as a single woman, it's important I exercise discretion when ministering to the opposite sex. I don't do it alone. I prefer to have a mature Christian man in the environment whenever possible. In most instances, I would direct the individual to him instead. And offer support and prayer.

I am reluctant to become someone's shoulder or confidant with minimal supervision. It opens the door for compromises. I extend that to friendships to some degree. Single Christians don't have the liberties secular singles possess. The desire for a partner can evoke loneliness and emotional needs they're unable to satisfy.

Sometimes a woman's presence is reassuring because the otherness and nurturing she offers in her womanliness appeals to the part of him that's lacking. He hungers for it more frequently over time. You can unwittingly become a placeholder of sorts. Filling the void of companion unintentionally.

This isn't one-sided. Women are guilty of the same. When you suspect things have moved beyond ministry the appropriate response is stepping back and allowing another to assist them. The same holds true with personal connections. We don't want to mislead anyone or give them false hope.

I guard my heart by requiring honesty in my interactions. If someone is interested in me they need to tell the truth. Pretending to be a friend or something else isn't okay. Interacting honorably is a must for both.

But at the time I was new to the Church and was trying to find my grounding myself. During this time I was also visting hospital, county and nursing homes. I felt really stretched and felt like I was denied a honeymoon period to just settle in. Richard’s death just made me revisit these experiences. I hate that it happened but it gets to a point that it becomes unhealthy.

Busyness is a common problem in the church. I was worn out and the Lord put a stop to it. What helped me going forward was acknowledging my response to service and developing greater familiarity with my gifting and calling. I began narrowing my activities and focus to the areas He pointed me towards.

Introspection can be difficult. But there's a silver lining in all of this. You're viewing the situation in hindsight and the spiritual maturity you lacked when it occurred. Now you're wiser and able to make different decisions which respect your needs while serving others in turn. That's a win/win for everyone.

~Bella

 

[Michie]

I suspected that might be the case. But I didn't want to ask out of courtesy.

It is easy for men and women to develop feelings when engaging intimately. From my perspective as a single woman, it's important I exercise discretion when ministering to the opposite sex. I don't do it alone. I prefer to have a mature Christian man in the environment whenever possible. In most instances, I would direct the individual to him instead. And offer support and prayer.

I am reluctant to become someone's shoulder or confidant with minimal supervision. It opens the door for compromises. I extend that to friendships to some degree. Single Christians don't have the liberties secular singles possess. The desire for a partner can evoke loneliness and emotional needs they're unable to satisfy.

Sometimes a woman's presence is reassuring because the otherness and nurturing she offers in her womanliness appeals to the part of him that's lacking. He hungers for it more frequently over time. You can unwittingly become a placeholder of sorts. Filling the void of companion unintentionally.

This isn't one-sided. Women are guilty of the same. When you suspect things have moved beyond ministry the appropriate response is stepping back and allowing another to assist them. The same holds true with personal connections. We don't want to mislead anyone or give them false hope.

I guard my heart by requiring honesty in my interactions. If someone is interested in me they need to tell the truth. Pretending to be a friend or something else isn't okay. Interacting honorably is a must for both.



Busyness is a common problem in the church. I was worn out and the Lord put a stop to it. What helped me going forward was acknowledging my response to service and developing greater familiarity with my gifting and calling. I began narrowing my activities and focus to the areas He pointed me towards.

Introspection can be difficult. But there's a silver lining in all of this. You're viewing the situation in hindsight and the spiritual maturity you lacked when it occurred. Now you're wiser and able to make different decisions which respect your needs while serving others in turn. That's a win/win for everyone.

~Bella

Well he was old enough to be my grandpa. It was confusing because he always said he was still in love with his ex-wife and even had a relationship with her kids and grandkids. I often took him to the doctor and delivered a lot of his paperwork to them as well. Anyway, he often recalled his guilt about his history... sexual and otherwise that was a bit much for me but let it go. He was a nice man. Seemed seek God with all his heart. Spent hours in Church praying alone. Wanted to be a saint. I think he was/is. Anyway, his heart was in the right place I think but it was just too overwhelming to me. I think he probably understands now but it still makes you wish things could of been different. Thanks for all your great advice btw.

 

[bèlla]

Anyway, his heart was in the right place I think but it was just too overwhelming to me. I think he probably understands now but it still makes you wish things could of been different. Thanks for all your great advice btw.

It sounds like he really needed a male confidante. Fortunately, you were able to withstand his sharing without stumbling. Not necessarily with him, but having your thoughts compromised by his admissions.

You served him in a time of need and I'm sure he appreciated it. Your story will benefit others in similar situations and inspire us to be mindful of our commitments and speak up and avoid neglecting our welfare.

Thank you for sharing.

~Bella

 

[Michie]

It sounds like he really needed a male confidante. Fortunately, you were able to withstand his sharing without stumbling. Not necessarily with him, but having your thoughts compromised by his admissions.

You served him in a time of need and I'm sure he appreciated it. Your story will benefit others in similar situations and inspire us to be mindful of our commitments and speak up and avoid neglecting our welfare.

Thank you for sharing.

~Bella

Thank you Bella and say a prayer for Richard if you think about it. You really made me think of some things I had never thought about before. I had never had relationships with grandparents before in general that were at not at all normal if it all. It makes me take my own responsibility in this as well.