Here’s why Pope Francis is wrong to say Muslims and Catholics worship the same God

[Michie]

Pope Francis' ecumenical relations with Muslims has become one of the key aspects of his pontificate, yet in doing so he ignores the fundamental fact that ‘Islam in itself is not faith.’

ROME (LifeSiteNews) — Much has been made by the Vatican and Pope Francis of the three “Abrahamic religions” coming together in a spirit of harmony and peace in the Abrahamic Family House, recently opened in Abu Dhabi, yet the truth of how Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism actually relate is not entirely as the Vatican portrays.

On February 16, the Abrahamic Family House (AFH) held the inaugural ceremony to mark the grand opening of the center, which was directly born out of the 2019 Abu Dhabi document on Human Fraternity signed by both Francis and Ahmed el-Tayeb during the Pope’s 2019 visit to the UAE.

The AFH is home to a Catholic church, a Muslim mosque, and a Jewish synagogue, and — according to Cardinal Miguel Ángel Ayuso Guixot, current president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue — it serves as a “concrete example for people of different religions, cultures, traditions, and beliefs to return to the essential: love of neighbor.”

The AFH is the natural progression of Pope Francis’ controversial Abu Dhabi document on Human Fraternity, a text which states: “The pluralism and the diversity of religions, color, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings.”

The text has been described as seeming to “overturn the doctrine of the Gospel” due to its promotion of equality of religions in a form of “fraternity.”

The Pope’s 2020 encyclical Fratelli Tutti has also played a part in the AFH, since the ecumenical project embodies the style of fraternity that the document called for. This form of fraternity is so essential to such ventures: namely, it is a fraternity and “unity” which are divorced from promotion of the Catholic faith which underly modern ecumenical activities.

Indeed, for many years the Vatican’s relationship with Islam and Judaism has presented a great danger to Catholics. This is particularly visible in the documents which emerged from Vatican II and which have since been used as the backbone of a number of different texts, including the modern catechism, as noted recently by Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Yet while Vatican officials are busy promoting Islam and Judaism as equatable to Catholicism, as if they are simply the other side of a coin, the truth is that the Abrahamic Family House cannot promote Catholicism, but only dilute or weaken it. How then do Catholicism and Islam, in particular, compare?

Catholics and Muslims – the same God?


Continued below.

Here's why Pope Francis is wrong to say Muslims and Catholics worship the same God - LifeSite

Pope Francis' ecumenical relations with Muslims has become one of the key aspects of his pontificate, yet in doing so he ignores the fundamental fact that ‘Islam in itself is not faith.’

www.lifesitenews.com

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think the Muslims 'think' they have the same God, but that now the 'roaring lion' came after Jesus they have it right.
Despite the fact they have never ever had the truth of Jesus etc.
Nestorians set up Muslims understanding of Jesus. [But with their own twist on things]

 

[Lady Bug]

It really isn't Pope Francis that says this; it's the Catechism. I wish that the Catechism didn't say this. I think that in one of the Epistles of John, it says that one who doesn't have the Son, doesn't have the Father either. That seems pretty clear that if you reject the Son, you reject the Father too. I don't see how you can read that and just say that Muslims and Catholics worship the same God. Muslims may think that they worship the same deity, but objectively, I don't see how the Islamic deity is the same as the Christian deity. When I entered into the Church, this part was in my mind, but I felt that I couldn't do anything about it.

 

[WarriorAngel]

It really isn't Pope Francis that says this; it's the Catechism. I wish that the Catechism didn't say this. I think that in one of the Epistles of John, it says that one who doesn't have the Son, doesn't have the Father either. That seems pretty clear that if you reject the Son, you reject the Father too. I don't see how you can read that and just say that Muslims and Catholics worship the same God. Muslims may think that they worship the same deity, but objectively, I don't see how the Islamic deity is the same as the Christian deity. When I entered into the Church, this part was in my mind, but I felt that I couldn't do anything about it.

It's a gracious statement with hopes to bring the Muslims to query, to conversions.

 

[WarriorAngel]

That said; the Catechism will never state they have truth.

 

[Lady Bug]

That said; the Catechism will never state they have truth.

But by saying they believe in the one God, isn't that saying they believe in the same God?

Does the Catholic Church believe that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the same God, even though they reject the Trinitarian doctrine?

 

[narnia59]

But by saying they believe in the one God, isn't that saying they believe in the same God?

Does the Catholic Church believe that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the same God, even though they reject the Trinitarian doctrine?

The way I view this is the Catholic Church has the fulness of the faith. If you think of the fulness of the faith as a completed circle, then all other religions are circles that have some kind of intersection with that circle but are not completely identical to the circle. The closest would be the Orthodox, the two circles would intersect very closely. The Jehovah's Witnesses would have much less intersection, and other Christian faiths would have varying degrees of intersection. There is also an intersection with Islam because they claim the God of Abraham as we do, and they are monotheists and profess a belief in only one God. But their intersection is much less than another Christian faith.

And while the Muslims do claim the God of Abraham and are monotheists, I do believe they have a distorted view of who God is. But I also think that is somewhat true of many Protestant faiths who embrace penal substitution atonement theology – that is a distorted view of who God is.

But this is what I don’t understand. People tend to get upset at the idea that we worship the same God as the Muslims, and the reasons are in general what is cited in this article – they don’t believe in the Trinity and they don’t believe Jesus is God. Yet neither do the Jews. Yet people are much more willing to embrace the idea that we worship the same God as the Jews. I don’t understand that reasoning. I do think our circle definitely intersects more closely with Judaism and that their understanding of God is not as distorted as the Muslims. But nonetheless, if the criteria to say we worship the same God is as laid out in this article, then we have to conclude we don’t worship the same God as the Jews either. Yet you rarely see that attacked in the same way.

It is not a surprise to me that this article focuses on Pope Francis in the headline. It does admit though (as you’ve noted) that this view isn’t limited to Pope Francis. It’s in our current catechism that was authored under the direction of Pope Benedict and promulgated by Pope JPII.

And this is the other oddity I find about the article. It says that the modern Pontiffs have sacrificed the authenticity of the Catholic faith for ecumenism. And then it quotes Bishop Schneider as saying this modern ecumenism “undermines the truth that there is only one Church of God and this is the Catholic Church, the Church of Peter, united with the Holy See, the chair of Peter — the Popes.”

So they’re basically saying that the Popes are undermining the Catholic faith which is known by union with the chair of Peter, the Popes. That really doesn’t make a lot of sense unless you’re a sedevacantist via Vatican II. These people seem to want to brush right up against that line without stepping over it though. And in doing so cause a lot of angst and confusion among the faithful. Their message seems to always be that we have a valid pope, but we can’t trust him or his recent predecessors. But the Church is known by our union with the Popes. Am I the only one confused by that???

 

[WarriorAngel]

And this is the other oddity I find about the article. It says that the modern Pontiffs have sacrificed the authenticity of the Catholic faith for ecumenism. And then it quotes Bishop Schneider as saying this modern ecumenism “undermines the truth that there is only one Church of God and this is the Catholic Church, the Church of Peter, united with the Holy See, the chair of Peter — the Popes.”

So they’re basically saying that the Popes are undermining the Catholic faith which is known by union with the chair of Peter, the Popes.

I always find it oddly ironic.
The irony of which gets lost every single time.

 

[WarriorAngel]

But by saying they believe in the one God, isn't that saying they believe in the same God?

Does the Catholic Church believe that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the same God, even though they reject the Trinitarian doctrine?

The folks who were given new gospels have a line of error in the 7th Day and thus JWs.
Same as the Muslims err in keeping up with the Jews, and like the Jews put Jesus as simply a prophet.

Trinitarian, though truth, does not mean they do not worship a monotheistic God as the OT proclaims. But rather they are far from truth on the Substance and knowledge and teachings of God.

 

[narnia59]

I always find it oddly ironic.
The irony of which gets lost every single time.

Glad it's not just me puzzling over that.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Glad it's not just me puzzling over that.

Ever since Jesus made a statement who to believe, follow, steward, shepherd, teacher..... every schism and departure from the Church has rested on a disagreement with the Pope's position.


ETA though obviously the most envied position, no one could withstand as much as the Pope's position.
Irony, pure.

 

[Richard.20.12]

Pope Francis' ecumenical relations with Muslims has become one of the key aspects of his pontificate, yet in doing so he ignores the fundamental fact that ‘Islam in itself is not faith.’

ROME (LifeSiteNews) — Much has been made by the Vatican and Pope Francis of the three “Abrahamic religions” coming together in a spirit of harmony and peace in the Abrahamic Family House, recently opened in Abu Dhabi, yet the truth of how Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism actually relate is not entirely as the Vatican portrays.

On February 16, the Abrahamic Family House (AFH) held the inaugural ceremony to mark the grand opening of the center, which was directly born out of the 2019 Abu Dhabi document on Human Fraternity signed by both Francis and Ahmed el-Tayeb during the Pope’s 2019 visit to the UAE.

The AFH is home to a Catholic church, a Muslim mosque, and a Jewish synagogue, and — according to Cardinal Miguel Ángel Ayuso Guixot, current president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue — it serves as a “concrete example for people of different religions, cultures, traditions, and beliefs to return to the essential: love of neighbor.”

The AFH is the natural progression of Pope Francis’ controversial Abu Dhabi document on Human Fraternity, a text which states: “The pluralism and the diversity of religions, color, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings.”

The text has been described as seeming to “overturn the doctrine of the Gospel” due to its promotion of equality of religions in a form of “fraternity.”

The Pope’s 2020 encyclical Fratelli Tutti has also played a part in the AFH, since the ecumenical project embodies the style of fraternity that the document called for. This form of fraternity is so essential to such ventures: namely, it is a fraternity and “unity” which are divorced from promotion of the Catholic faith which underly modern ecumenical activities.

Indeed, for many years the Vatican’s relationship with Islam and Judaism has presented a great danger to Catholics. This is particularly visible in the documents which emerged from Vatican II and which have since been used as the backbone of a number of different texts, including the modern catechism, as noted recently by Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Yet while Vatican officials are busy promoting Islam and Judaism as equatable to Catholicism, as if they are simply the other side of a coin, the truth is that the Abrahamic Family House cannot promote Catholicism, but only dilute or weaken it. How then do Catholicism and Islam, in particular, compare?

Catholics and Muslims – the same God?


Continued below.

Here's why Pope Francis is wrong to say Muslims and Catholics worship the same God - LifeSite

Pope Francis' ecumenical relations with Muslims has become one of the key aspects of his pontificate, yet in doing so he ignores the fundamental fact that ‘Islam in itself is not faith.’

www.lifesitenews.com

While Dubai's attempt at reconcilliation at first looks admirable because at least it dminishes what seems to be a never ending hatred of Israel and Jewish people, we know its just lip service and their atrocities within the regime, the total lack of basic human rights, will continue unabated. Its like putting lipstick on a frog. Its still a frog. Nothing has changed. They built something Big deal. In another decade it will be the same tyrranical regime like they all are under Islam.

And equating Muslims or Hindus with the God we know who demands recognition of His Son who they absolutely refuse to acknowledge, just shows how absurd this whole spectacle is. Its just political theater to make the UAE seem a safe investment destination. They are, after all, trying to transition away from oil. They've got to come up with something! Because the world's demand for oil and all the pollution it causes, is consistently fading thankfully. Cleaner air is on the way people!

 

[narnia59]

While Dubai's attempt at reconcilliation at first looks admirable because at least it dminishes what seems to be a never ending hatred of Israel and Jewish people, we know its just lip service and their atrocities within the regime, the total lack of basic human rights, will continue unabated. Its like putting lipstick on a frog. Its still a frog. Nothing has changed. They built something Big deal. In another decade it will be the same tyrranical regime like they all are under Islam.

And equating Muslims or Hindus with the God we know who demands recognition of His Son who they absolutely refuse to acknowledge, just shows how absurd this whole spectacle is. Its just political theater to make the UAE seem a safe investment destination. They are, after all, trying to transition away from oil. They've got to come up with something! Because the world's demand for oil and all the pollution it causes, is consistently fading thankfully. Cleaner air is on the way people!

Do you have the same perspective of Jewish people -- they also refuse to acknowledge Jesus as God's son? So do they not believe in the same God that we do as well?

 

[Richard.20.12]

Do you have the same perspective of Jewish people -- they also refuse to acknowledge Jesus as God's son? So do they not believe in the same God that we do as well?

Not at all. We are reading the same Old Testament, right? (Salvation is another matter though.) Remember that the devil believes in God!

 

[narnia59]

Not at all. We are reading the same Old Testament, right? (Salvation is another matter though.) Remember that the devil believes in God!

Yes, but they reject the New Testament. They reject the Trinity, and they reject that Christ is God.

I just am always puzzled at the reasoning that the Muslims worship a different God than we do because they reject the Trinity and Christ as God but then fail to apply that same test to the Jews. Because they also reject the Trinity and Christ as God. But somehow the Jews do worship the same God we do. Doesn't add up.....

 

[Richard.20.12]

Yes, but they reject the New Testament. They reject the Trinity, and they reject that Christ is God.

I just am always puzzled at the reasoning that the Muslims worship a different God than we do because they reject the Trinity and Christ as God but then fail to apply that same test to the Jews. Because they also reject the Trinity and Christ as God. But somehow the Jews do worship the same God we do. Doesn't add up.....

Yes as I said, believing in God is not difficult. The key to salvation, as instructed to us by the New Testament is our relationship with Jesus. That's the priority I would say. That's what people focus on. But before Jesus definitiely Jews and non-Jews worshipped the same God. Its just not very important though. But I would say it unites Jews and Christians far more han any other religious group to Christians. As a Christian I am constantly impressed at the vast knowledge so many Jews have of the Old Testament. Its an area we Christians are often lacking. So you set a fine example of scriptural knowledge of the Old Testament.

 

[Richard.20.12]

Yes as I said, believing in God is not difficult. The key to salvation, as instructed to us by the New Testament is our relationship with Jesus. That's the priority I would say. That's what people focus on. But before Jesus definitiely Jews and non-Jews worshipped the same God. Its just not very important though. But I would say it unites Jews and Christians far more han any other religious group to Christians. As a Christian I am constantly impressed at the vast knowledge so many Jews have of the Old Testament. Its an area we Christians are often lacking. So you set a fine example of scriptural knowledge of the Old Testament.

At the end of the day, all the matters is how God feels about the situation, right?

 

[WarriorAngel]

No one is suggesting Muslims correctly worship God.
But there is only One God to worship.
They believe they worship the same Lord as Abraham.

 

[WarriorAngel]

At the end of the day, all the matters is how God feels about the situation, right?

He wanted His Apostles to be as one so the world would believe.

 

[Richard.20.12]

No one is suggesting Muslims correctly worship God.
But there is only One God to worship.
They believe they worship the same Lord as Abraham.

Yeah well they believe a lot of very strange things! Sort of a tyrannical, 99% male dominated, alternate universe!