Help with teenage boy

[sparkydave]

My girlfriend and I have been dating for 2 years, and we're committed to getting married in the near future. She has two boys, 11 and 13. The 11 year old has taken to lying frequently, which concerns me. His mom has said she can't stand liars and has said it's a big red flag to her, but she doesn't seem too concerned about him, which leaves me scratching my head. We've talked to the boys' counselor, and the counselor agrees I should take an active role in being a father-like figure even if I'm not officially a stepdad. My GF is fine with my calling them out when they do wrong, and agrees he shouldn't be lying.

He will lie to try to get his brother in trouble, such as voluntarily jerking and saying "Ow! Stop hitting me!" to his older brother. It's perfectly obvious that he's making it up and the older one hasn't laid a finger on him, but he keeps doing it anyway and won't understand why we're not punishing the older one when he's innocent. Last night, I was with his mom and we were picking them up at their dad's house. Younger one has his face buried in his iPod, and I tell him to fasten his seat belt. "My belt was on!". Pretty obvious it was not, and he did a poor job of trying to hide his fastening it after the fact. His mom reprimanded him for talking back, but not about lying. I told him to stop lying since it was obviously not fastened, and again, "I wasn't lying!". Trouble is, this is becoming very common; he won't admit that did wrong, and acts like we must be too blind and stupid to see what he's really doing.

Any suggestions? Other than taking away his electronics for a day (which we're agreed is the usual punishment), I'm stumped.

 

[AirPo]

Your not his father, stay out of it.

 

[Hank77]

I agree with AirPro, you are not his father and his counselor is wrong to tell you to try to take his father's place.
What his sister could do is talk to his father about it. He should be involved in this issue, not you.

 

[sparkydave]

Fair enough, we were both a little surprised that the counselor said I should take some active role. My girlfriend and I aren't too optimistic that their dad would do anything about it though; let's just say there are a number of reasons she isn't married to him anymore. She has said that she would very much like me to impart some better values to the boys.

 

[Hank77]

Fair enough, we were both a little surprised that the counselor said I should take some active role. My girlfriend and I aren't too optimistic that their dad would do anything about it though; let's just say there are a number of reasons she isn't married to him anymore. She has said that she would very much like me to impart some better values to the boys.

Imo, the best way that you can help those boys is by them seeing and experiencing your better values. If they see that you don't lie, you treat others with respect and love, etc. you will be really helping them.
God Bless you and all your family. May He guide you in this situation and in all things.

Oh and there may be some underling issue for this boy to be acting out the way he is. There may be something bothering him that none of you know about. You may want to ask the counselor about how his mother could try to find out.

 

[sparkydave]

Thank you Hank, well said. She has said I seem to be rubbing off on them already, they have been holding doors for people, which they haven't done before. Guess we'll just have to hope the lying is just a phase, or mention it to the counselor and see if she can help. My girlfriend says the boys seem to think I'm OK and treat their mom well.

 

[friend of]

If his lying is a constant thing then punishment by taking away his electronics isn't going to get him to see the reason for such punishment and such action could backfire in a way that makes him feel as though he needs to continue on in his lying, since the reason for lying in the first place is to avoid punishments. It sounds as though you have been with his mother for a long enough time that she should feel comfortable with you taking a more fatherly role in the boy's life, especially when in comes to compulsive lying, which is not a good start to early life and can be indicative of greater problems down the line. The next time you catch him spinning a flagrant yarn intended toward the detriment of his brother, you should sit him down (when appropriate) and explain to him (slowly, concisely) that what he is saying is not in line with reality. Be patient, take your time, don't react too harshly. He's young and it may take some time before your message seeps in. He needs to believe that you know the truth but also feel comfortable that he can confide in you. You might then be able to ask him why he feels he needs to lie about certain things. Develop rapport.

 

[JAM2b]

When my son was about that age he went through a phase of lying. I was separated/newly divorced. I took away his game console for a while, I don't remember how long. It stopped the lying.

I'm thinking it is a normal thing kids go through. They are testing parents when they do this. They are testing what they can get away with, testing your love, and testing your consistency. When you are going through major family changes, this can increase, even if the changes are good. They have to be reassured of love and commitment, but also not allowed to continue their wrongful behavior.

I'm at a point now where I try more love, support, talking, and preventive measures than punishments. I'm on the fence about it. Discipline does work in most cases if it is done fairly and consistently, but I'm not 100% sure it is the best option. It helps to stop the behavior, but does not solve the underlying issues or change their overall character. It merely teaches them how they should behave rather than changing who they are as a person. It is a temporary fix to the deeper problem of sin that is in every ones lives. It is tricky. Whatever you decided to do, be consistent and be fair, kind but firm.

 

[sparkydave]

Ugh, new problems to contend with.

So the little prince is going through the "test the limits" phase. His latest thing is mom says no to something, he keeps doing it. She says no again, and he laughs thinking it's all fun and games. And he keeps doing it.

Saturday we were watching his brother play basketball and he keeps doing this thing where he's picking at his mom's hair, touching her ear, making her smell his putrid breath, and putting his hands just about everywhere on her that would make most people uncomfortable. She doesn't like it, and I think it's downright creepy. She tells him no, and I finally tell him to listen to his mother, but it persists until she has to tell him NO again.

Yesterday, we're at grandma's house, and he starts doing his creepy touchy-feely thing. She and I told him to stop, and I said maybe he should lose his electronics for a month (A week is typical, but I was getting pretty fed up at that point) to convince him we're not joking, and told him to get his hands off his mom now. So he laughs and picks at her hair one time too many. At that point, I lost it and grabbed his iPod from him.

Well, his mom thinks I was right, and doesn't blame me for losing my cool. The little prince can't live without his precious iPod, and of course he doesn't think he did anything wrong. After we got home and he pestered his mom enough, she told him he will have to ask me if he can have his iPod back, so he asked. I said he can have it back after a week. Later she and I talked and said he was pretty upset, so I told him I apologized for overreacting and grabbing his iPod, but he was disrespecting his mom and I won't tolerate it if he persists after she tells him no. I said if he starts listening to his mom, starts helping around the house a little more, and shows his mom some more respect, I'll consider returning it earlier than a week.

I'm lost. I'm kicking myself a little for losing my cool. I try to make positive comments when he does good things and listens to his mom, but those seem few and far between. His mom, grandparents, counselor, and even my parents think I'm doing the right thing, but I don't want to be the enemy. His mom is trying to get us in to the counselor (she's frustrated with him too), but it's a month away at least.

 

[JAM2b]

It sounds like you are trying really hard. I think the most important thing is consistency. You and your girlfriend need to decide on a set discipline and timeframe for it, and then stick to it.

Children learn to manipulate very early. If they know they can change their outward behavior, and get their punishment shortened, or recieve a reward for good behavior, then they do what they need to in order to get what they want, but there is no change to their character. They learned to work the system.

A mini example of that is at my job, I work in a preschool classroom of 3 year olds. They don't want to pick up the toys. So the other teacher in there gives them gummy bears for cleaning up. She will give a gummy bear to any kid who picks up even just one toy. Some of them refuse to pick up, and will run away or even throw tantrums when we try to get to them to do it. But she starts handing out gummy bears before the cleaning up is finished to the ones who have been helping a lot. So the ones who had been refusing will run pick up one or two, then say they helped and ask for their gummy bear. She gives it to them, because they did pick up one thing. So, these 3 year olds have learned that they don't really have to do what is being asked of them. They can wait until the last minute, do very minimal amount of work, and get the same award that everyone else did.

If you say you he can't have the ipod back for a month, then give it back because he said he is sorry and he is behaving now, you are only showing him how to manipulate. He only has to behave when he is trying to get what he wants. If a month is too long, then decide during a moment when you are calm and thinking rationally how long is long enough. Then when he misbehaves that way again, stick to that no matter how sorry he is, no matter if he cries, no matter if has a tantrum, no matter if he behaves like an angel.

Another thing you could try is to flip it. Instead of him losing the privilege of having his electronics for bad behavior, let him earn it for good behavior. You and your girlfriend can decide how to set up the rules, but whatever you come up with, stick to it.

An example could be for every hour he does not misbehave, he earns 15 minutes of electronic time. Maybe certain chores, homework, or studying completed earns a specific amount electronics time. You could use a chart, a jar of marbles, tickets, or vouchers. To be fair you need to make sure you keep track of it accurately, and you also need to make sure that he isn't cheating or lying.

You want him to want to behave well all the time, not just long enough to get the electronics back.

 

[sparkydave]

Hoo boy, last night was a doozie.

Last week, my girlfriend (now fiancee) and I went to the counselor, and established some house rules and some daily chores since they will be moving into my new house this summer and the boys need to learn some responsibility. Youngest one (he just turned 12) hates that idea since it takes away from playing video games. The counselor has also suggested working towards me spending time alone with the boys to build a relationship. So far, I played a video game with the youngest, and even he thought I did OK after he showed me how to play it. Small steps.

I brought up concerns about the youngest one's lying to my fiancee, since the prospect of spending time alone has me a bit nervous. He once made up a story about his grandpa exposing himself and dancing naked in front of him, and kept insisting to his mom that it was true until he finally admitted he made it up. She tried explaining that he can't make stuff up like that because it could get grandpa in big trouble, but he didn't seem to understand why. She agreed we'll bring up my concerns when went to talk to the counselor last night.

She texted me last night as I was on my way to the counselor from work. Youngest one was FURIOUS that he had to leave his video game, and knocked over a chair. She asked him to pick it up, and he asked why. When she said because he just threw it down, he said he didn't throw it down (she watched him do it 5 seconds ago!). Finally she got him to pick it up, when she told him to get in the car, he dropped the f-bomb, which he hasn't done before.

The counselor agreed he's losing his precious video games cold turkey for a while, and believes he's addicted to the video games. She heard my concerns, and agrees we need to get the lying resolved for all of our safety before I start spending time alone with the boys, lest he start telling big whoppers to the wrong people that attract attention from child services or the police. When she patiently explained why she was taking his video games away, he got hysterical and started sobbing. It took lots of prodding to finally get him to admit throwing the chair down and swearing. Even during the counseling he would say something and then 1 minute later deny saying it. The counselor thinks the video game addiction is a big part of the problem.

After we left the counselor, she slipped his precious iPod in my pocket and told me to keep it at my house, so he can't try to steal it back. Now he has to write out an apology to his mom, and she agrees he's not getting it back until then. Even after, we'll be restricting his use of it.

 

[JAM2b]

This situation is going to take a lot of time and a lot patience and love to get through. Hang in there.