Help with Joshua ch. 10 please

Markie Boy

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So I am doing my first read through of the Old Testament. I have read where God commanded them to kill everything in battle at times.

Now in Joshua ch. 10 it reads like a genealogy of wiping out cities and people. I don't read of chances for people to repent or surrender.

Can you help me balance this with the Gospel of love your enemy?
 

HTacianas

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So I am doing my first read through of the Old Testament. I have read where God commanded them to kill everything in battle at times.

Now in Joshua ch. 10 it reads like a genealogy of wiping out cities and people. I don't read of chances for people to repent or surrender.

Can you help me balance this with the Gospel of love your enemy?

When Jesus said "love your enemies" it means "love the people who have a grudge against you". The same idea is found in Exodus:

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Exo 23:5 - “If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden, and you would refrain from helping it, you shall surely help him with it.

It's the same as to say love your neighbor. It has nothing to do with an enemy during wartime.
 
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ArmyMatt

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So I am doing my first read through of the Old Testament. I have read where God commanded them to kill everything in battle at times.

Now in Joshua ch. 10 it reads like a genealogy of wiping out cities and people. I don't read of chances for people to repent or surrender.

Can you help me balance this with the Gospel of love your enemy?

no Joshua CH 10, no Israel for the Messiah to be born, no salvation for anyone.
 
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EJ M

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So I am doing my first read through of the Old Testament. I have read where God commanded them to kill everything in battle at times.

Now in Joshua ch. 10 it reads like a genealogy of wiping out cities and people. I don't read of chances for people to repent or surrender.

Can you help me balance this with the Gospel of love your enemy?
In Deut 20:10-12 The Israelites were commanded to offer every city the option of peace.
Those who accepted were spared, those who did not were destroyed.
So, peace or destruction was the choice of every city.
However it seems every one who wanted to be, was saved.
Rahab the harlot and the Gibeonites, (Josh 9) as 2 examples.
Also read an archaeological publication, where they uncovered an ancient idol worship site in Israel.
What horrified me most was the discovery of hundreds, maybe thousands of clay jars with the burned remains of babies sacrificed to the devil they were worshiping.
The little one who survived grew up to sacrifice their own children.
It would be more merciful to destroy such devil worshipers than to allow them to continue this horrible practice.
 
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WESTOZZIE

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And in the end such people shall be raised up at the resurrection. The resurrection of judgement as in Dan 12:2 and again in Matthew 25:46 is not everlasting as has been translated..but is for an age of time...whether a long time or very long time we are not told. But that discussion is on another forum page. Those Canaanite devil worshipers shall come to believe in Jesus Christ who died not only for us, but also for the whole world. This shall happen in the ages to come..Eph 2:7 --Thus the grace and mercy of God wins....and His justice is satisfied as death is the penalty for sin...not eternal punishment. Mercy demands that grace be shown to those who deserve it not. That is why in the resurrection all sinners shall be dealt with in His loving chastisement so that they too come to call upon Jesus as their Saviour. See Our Vision; About the Author – Hope for All
 
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ItIsFinished!

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And in the end such people shall be raised up at the resurrection. The resurrection of judgement as in Dan 12:2 and again in Matthew 25:46 is not everlasting as has been translated..but is for an age of time...whether a long time or very long time we are not told. But that discussion is on another forum page. Those Canaanite devil worshipers shall come to believe in Jesus Christ who died not only for us, but also for the whole world. This shall happen in the ages to come..Eph 2:7 --Thus the grace and mercy of God wins....and His justice is satisfied as death is the penalty for sin...not eternal punishment. Mercy demands that grace be shown to those who deserve it not. That is why in the resurrection all sinners shall be dealt with in His loving chastisement so that they too come to call upon Jesus as their Saviour. See Our Vision; About the Author – Hope for All
This is 100% false.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Folks, please be aware this is The Ancient Way - an Eastern Orthodox congregational forum. Speculation about theologies doesn't belong here. I know it's easy to end up in a forum without realizing where you are, and I wouldn't want to see anyone get in trouble. Please feel free to ask if you have questions. :)

Peace.
 
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prodromos

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So I am doing my first read through of the Old Testament. I have read where God commanded them to kill everything in battle at times.

Now in Joshua ch. 10 it reads like a genealogy of wiping out cities and people. I don't read of chances for people to repent or surrender.

Can you help me balance this with the Gospel of love your enemy?
Was God wrong to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? From what we know, the people living in Canaan were committing acts far more abominable to God, so God was right in judging them. God was also providing an inheritance for the Jews that they were able to immediately enjoy. They did not have to till the soil, or plant orchards and vineyards or build houses, they took possession of the land where all these things were already in place. Thus God permitted the evil of the Canaanites for a time, only for the purpose of them preparing the inheritance of Israel, after which He put an end to their evil.
This also served the purpose of glorifying God, because the surrounding nations all witnessed much stronger armies being defeated by the outnumbered Israelites, thus showing the 'gods' they worshipped to be impotent before the God of Israel.
 
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Markie Boy

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Was God wrong to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? From what we know, the people living in Canaan were committing acts far more abominable to God, so God was right in judging them. God was also providing an inheritance for the Jews that they were able to immediately enjoy. They did not have to till the soil, or plant orchards and vineyards or build houses, they took possession of the land where all these things were already in place. Thus God permitted the evil of the Canaanites for a time, only for the purpose of them preparing the inheritance of Israel, after which He put an end to their evil.
This also served the purpose of glorifying God, because the surrounding nations all witnessed much stronger armies being defeated by the outnumbered Israelites, thus showing the 'gods' they worshipped to be impotent before the God of Israel.



That makes sense - thank you!
 
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Lukaris

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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Was God wrong to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? From what we know, the people living in Canaan were committing acts far more abominable to God,


^^^ Pretty Much This ^^^

I'm convinced that there was actually even more going on then just what we are told besides human sacrifice, idolatry, etc.

Maybe there was another "Nephilim" (Fallen Angel and Human Women Offspring) type of situation like Genesis 6 describes before God Flooded The Earth. The Lord seems to really clean house and bring divine retribution when things get to that level:

Nephilim - Wikipedia
 
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mark kennedy

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So I am doing my first read through of the Old Testament. I have read where God commanded them to kill everything in battle at times.

Now in Joshua ch. 10 it reads like a genealogy of wiping out cities and people. I don't read of chances for people to repent or surrender.

Can you help me balance this with the Gospel of love your enemy?
God waited almost 500 years before destroying the Canaanites.

“In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure” (Genesis 15:16).​

For a list of the offenses of the inhabitants of Canaan and Egypt which God detested try Leviticus 18. In the list you will find mention of a particularly nasty pagan deity, Molech, who demanded not only human sacrifice but children. As vicious as it sounds, the biggest mistake they made in the time of Joshua was sparing some, entering into treaties with the residents there and not taking the entire area that was prescribed. God is patient and merciful but sin grows over generations and he will endure wickedness for only so long. This curse went back to Noah's youngest son, Ham, who had gazed at his father while he was sleeping naked in a tent.

When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, he said,

“Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers.” (Gen. 9:24-25)​

There was more going on here then a casual glance and gross sexual immorality was associated with the practices of the Canaanites. Of course this should shock our sensibilities and warn us in the starkest possible terms, God's patience can be exhausted and will only put up with the progressive nature of sin so long.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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Folks, please be aware this is The Ancient Way - an Eastern Orthodox congregational forum. Speculation about theologies doesn't belong here. I know it's easy to end up in a forum without realizing where you are, and I wouldn't want to see anyone get in trouble. Please feel free to ask if you have questions. :)

Peace.
Ever the peacemaker I see, appreciate the gracious words of warning. By the way, I've always appreciated the hospitality in this forum.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Ever the peacemaker I see, appreciate the gracious words of warning. By the way, I've always appreciated the hospitality in this forum.

Grace and peace,
Mark
We try to be welcoming. An awful lot actually gets posted that is "against the rules" but as long as there's a chance people are dialoguing (even if it's arguing) ... I think most or all TAW members usually let it go. It often goes for an extended time.

But if a mod happens to see it (or even visitors can report) ... someone can get in trouble. And I wouldn't want that. So I try to keep folks out of trouble. And there's the added problem of visitors posting their own theology that may be wildly opposed to the historical Christian understanding - and we don't want other visitors to see that and assume it actually represents Orthodoxy.

Sometimes it's a bit of a tightrope walk being an ambassador lol. ;) But we try to do the best for the sake of everyone who may be posting or reading. Of course being human we can fail at it though.

Your kind words are appreciated. :)
 
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mark kennedy

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We try to be welcoming. An awful lot actually gets posted that is "against the rules" but as long as there's a chance people are dialoguing (even if it's arguing) ... I think most or all TAW members usually let it go. It often goes for an extended time.

But if a mod happens to see it (or even visitors can report) ... someone can get in trouble. And I wouldn't want that. So I try to keep folks out of trouble. And there's the added problem of visitors posting their own theology that may be wildly opposed to the historical Christian understanding - and we don't want other visitors to see that and assume it actually represents Orthodoxy.

Sometimes it's a bit of a tightrope walk being an ambassador lol. ;) But we try to do the best for the sake of everyone who may be posting or reading. Of course being human we can fail at it though.

Your kind words are appreciated. :)
I just wanted to say I appreciate that, from time to time i enjoy browsing there threads here. I think the Orthodox have a wonderful tradition and while a bit esoteric, I really enjoy their thoughts. Civility is a hard thing to maintain sometimes, maybe not a tightrope but you really don't need things getting out of hand in here. I've always appreciated your demeanor and thanks for all you do.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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~Anastasia~

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I just wanted to say I appreciate that, from time to time i enjoy browsing there threads here. I think the Orthodox have a wonderful tradition and while a bit esoteric, I really enjoy their thoughts. Civility is a hard thing to maintain sometimes, maybe not a tightrope but you really don't need things getting out of hand in here. I've always appreciated your demeanor and thanks for all you do.

Grace and peace,
Mark
Like I said, kind words much appreciated. :)

And you know, people who are hard to be civil to are really good practice for patience and mercy, lol. I think it's more than one of the Saints who said things like we should thank God for our enemies because they help save us by testing us. ;) (Not that I'm calling anyone an enemy - just mentioning the point.)

God be with you.
 
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In just being honest, for me growing up as a young man, I saw the OT and NT as almost different religions. Ya wrath is a God of battle, vengeance, awe, and war. Jesus seems the antithesis. It’s hard seeing Jesus being ok with wiping out the Amalekites or being cool with 100 dead Philistines slaughtered for David’s foreskin trophy bag to Saul. The pacifism, warmth, comfort, and humility of Jesus seems incongruent with turning Sodom into a Walmart parking lot or the face-melting butt-kicking of the Old Testament.....

But when you listen to Jesus talk about Gehenna, you do a double-take and say, “wooah, wait..., um, what was that, Lord?” The narrow gate talk, gnashing of teeth stuff, mill stone tied around your neck business.....yep, the Old Testament lives!!^_^^_^^_^

Free will, the essential central aspect of love, makes everything messy. The people in the age of Noah weren’t ready for Christ! The age of the Exodus was a time of pagan selfishness. Look at how even Israel gives in to idolatry!! The age of David through Rehoboam to Hezekiah is decadent. I think God needed civilization in the world to bring the faith to us all. The Greeks and Romans gave that to the world. The Greek myths, the Roman laws, the poetry, the search for truth and beauty, the philosophy of Aristotle, Socrates, Plato. The sciences, the idea of civility vs. barbarism....I personally feel that is why God brought His Son to us in Roman times.

But in the Old Testament, God had little choice but to allow blood and war and butt-kicking as a concession to protect Hos People Israel. Until civilization could come and Christ could be in our midst, God had to do what is hard....and sad.
 
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mark kennedy

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Like I said, kind words much appreciated. :)

And you know, people who are hard to be civil to are really good practice for patience and mercy, lol. I think it's more than one of the Saints who said things like we should thank God for our enemies because they help save us by testing us. ;) (Not that I'm calling anyone an enemy - just mentioning the point.)

God be with you.
I had not heard that, about the saints thanking God for our enemies, but I'm into apologetics so I can relate. I learned more from the critics then I ever could have from friends because they push me to dig into the details. Civility is a vital element, certainly any Christian should be able to appreciate that.

Anyway, just wanted to mention that, I've always thought you were a good natured influence on the likes of us debaters on CF.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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