Help my free-will family member be more comfortable with predestination

[usexpat97]

Hi,

I just visited a small church with one of my family, and I had no idea he was that unfamiliar with predestination. He was aghast when I explained it to him. "Heresy! How can you say that Jesus died only for some people! How can you tell somebody they just aren't one of the chosen! If you want to be saved, then you will be saved!" So in my own mind, okay--yes, we were predestined. Everything is predestined. The Eagles were predestined to win the 2018 SuperBowl 41-33. So...? It doesn't change anything. Not a battle worth fighting. Let it go.

I don't know if I explained it badly, or what. But--he saw it quite differently. How do I explain that evangelism is still just as important to a Calvinist? Or that no one who wants to accept Jesus will be turned away? He also had an issue with infant baptism: the infant never chooses to be baptized--the parents do. It reinforced the notion that you don't get to choose. I feel like he is ready to do battle, and alienate good Christians who disagree on one point.

Can I soothe his concerns? thanks!

 

[royal priest]

Hi,

I just visited a small church with one of my family, and I had no idea he was that unfamiliar with predestination. He was aghast when I explained it to him. "Heresy! How can you say that Jesus died only for some people! How can you tell somebody they just aren't one of the chosen! If you want to be saved, then you will be saved!" So in my own mind, okay--yes, we were predestined. Everything is predestined. The Eagles were predestined to win the 2018 SuperBowl 41-33. So...? It doesn't change anything. Not a battle worth fighting. Let it go.

I don't know if I explained it badly, or what. But--he saw it quite differently. How do I explain that evangelism is still just as important to a Calvinist? Or that no one who wants to accept Jesus will be turned away? He also had an issue with infant baptism: the infant never chooses to be baptized--the parents do. It reinforced the notion that you don't get to choose. I feel like he is ready to do battle, and alienate good Christians who disagree on one point.

Can I soothe his concerns? thanks!

The doctrine of election tends to be pretty jolting to those who are unfamiliar with it especially if they've been taught that God's grace is so "free" that anyone can be saved "if they want it".
You need to go easy and spoon feed it. Otherwise, it can be like taking a pie to the face. Back up the conversation and start with discussing God's purpose in salvation. You might want to hold off moving on from there until they can grasp the idea that God's greatest concern is not man's salvation, but His glory being displayed through the Gospel.
There is fantastic booklet out there called, "God's Astounding Grace" by D. Scott Meadows. He explains the doctrines of grace in a very simple and winsome manner. He explains the five points of Calvinism without the reader even realizing it.

 

[royal priest]

There is fantastic booklet out there called, "God's Astounding Grace" by D. Scott Meadows. He explains the doctrines of grace in a very simple and winsome manner. He explains the five points of Calvinism without the reader even realizing it.

Chapel Library has a free PDF:
https://www.chapellibrary.org/files/9613/7658/4053/gagr.pdf

 

[Thomas Bagley]

There is a beautiful book written by a fellow Anglican Calvinist written on just this topic! J.I. Packer is a Godly man, and in this book he reconciles evangelization and the sovereignty of God.

God bless you and keep you!

Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, J.I. Packer
https://www.amazon.com/Evangelism-Sovereignty-God-J-Packer/dp/083083799X

 

[royal priest]

There is a beautiful book written by a fellow Anglican Calvinist written on just this topic! J.I. Packer is a Godly man, and in this book he reconciles evangelization and the sovereignty of God.

God bless you and keep you!

Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, J.I. Packer
https://www.amazon.com/Evangelism-Sovereignty-God-J-Packer/dp/083083799X

Can't go wrong with Packer. I'll be reading this. Thanks for sharing!

 

[redleghunter]

There is a beautiful book written by a fellow Anglican Calvinist written on just this topic! J.I. Packer is a Godly man, and in this book he reconciles evangelization and the sovereignty of God.

God bless you and keep you!

Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, J.I. Packer
https://www.amazon.com/Evangelism-Sovereignty-God-J-Packer/dp/083083799X

One of the giants of theology. Thanks for the resource.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Another little resource you might consider is John Murray's "The Free Offer of the Gospel". I say little because it's a small booklet.

To condense the theology down, it comes down to knowledge, the differences between the Creator and creatures, between the infinite and the finite. It's also about obedience and doing as the Lord commands whether we understand His will or not. And it's also about the judgments of God and knowledge of men.

To cut to the chase on the differences between God and men concerning knowledge. Just because God knows His choices from eternity before the foundation of the world, and just because the Spirit gives knowledge to believers, does not mean that believers can know such and such person has been or will be saved at such and such time in their life. In fact, it should be obvious there are many deceivers deceiving many into thinking they are the real deal, the deception may run so deep that they have convinced themselves that they are saved when the truth is, they've never been saved. Time and again I've heard of this being the case....with pastors, awhile back I chatted with a former pastor here on CF where that was the case, and his congregation had no clue what was going on with him privately. So perhaps it is why it's called the "foolishness" of preaching, because it [the Gospel] is foolishness to them who do not believe, and because it is to be preached to the foolish and the believer without discrimination for the simple fact that we are finite creatures without exhaustive knowledge nor foreknowledge of the future, and could not even give a time and date when in time God would choose to monergistically regenerate a sinner dead in sins. The doctrines of Predestination and Election, by practical application should be comforting to the souls of believers, good tidings of promise and hope, and conductive to strength to carry on through tough times.

 

[twin1954]

When you talk to someone about election talk about His electing love. Put it in the context of man's depravity and God's amazing love.

When you talk about Predestination speak of how God rules and wisely determines all things for the glory oh His name and the good of His people.

Always bring the conversation back to who Christ Jesus is and what He has done.

Talking about doctrine, though the doctrine is correct, is pointless unless you put shoe leather on it. It has to mean something to the person in the context of Christ and His Gospel. Remember it is good news

 

[usexpat97]

Thanks for all that everybody.

Talking about doctrine, though the doctrine is correct, is pointless unless you put shoe leather on it.

That's the thing I have with Calvinism. Where is the shoe leather? Is there anything at all you do any differently because everyone is predestined? If so, what? And if not, then why press the point?

until they can grasp the idea that God's greatest concern is not man's salvation, but His glory being displayed through the Gospel.

That's awfully hard to reconcile with a God who gave His son to die on a cross for man's salvation. Or a Christ who, being in the very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but became obedient even unto death--even death on a cross. Also, His glory being displayed through the Gospel--to whom?

Bear in mind, I am having to explain to somebody something I don't even believe myself. I just don't think it's a cause for division.

 

[sdowney717]

Thanks for all that everybody.



That's the thing I have with Calvinism. Where is the shoe leather? Is there anything at all you do any differently because everyone is predestined? If so, what? And if not, then why press the point?




That's awfully hard to reconcile with a God who gave His son to die on a cross for man's salvation. Or a Christ who, being in the very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but became obedient even unto death--even death on a cross. Also, His glory being displayed through the Gospel--to whom?

Bear in mind, I am having to explain to somebody something I don't even believe myself. I just don't think it's a cause for division.

Read some of these on the sovereignty of God in election in the soteriology section, or all of them and think about this for yourself too.

https://www.the-highway.com/calvinism.html

https://www.the-highway.com/sovereignty-of-God-in-salvation_Pink.html

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

From the 1689 confession of faith;
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )

6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )

7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )