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cweb255

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Hello Christians,

As a short introduction, I am in need of spiritual confirmation. I have lived several different lifestyles, starting with my parents being in a sexual cult during my very early childhood, and then going on into general skepticism. All I need though is some sort of proof that what God wants me to follow isn't made up by man and sleazy televangelists who solicit prostitutes yet pretend to be on a higher moral pedestal than me.
 

Suzannah

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Hi there. I'm so sorry that you 've had a terrible experience.....There are many people who can understand your pain, having gone through very similar things themselves. My suggestion to you is study the historical Jesus, and then to move on to the historical church. Study, but don't forget to pray. Prayer is the direct link from your soul to God, and only He can bridge the gap for you.

Love,
Suzannah
 
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Ainesis

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Hi Cweb255!

How do you know? I would just offer that you continue on the path your are on. God promises that all who seek after righteousness shall be filled. Since He is no respecter of persons, I know that He will do this for you as He has for me.

Is there a specific issue or question you have? This may offend some, but I would suggest you study the word instead of trying to filter betwen the TV evangelists. God won't steer you wrong.

Do you currently have a local fellowship that can support you? If you have direct questions or would like to find a Bible Study partner, feel free to reach out to me. My email address is available in my posts, so don't hesitate.

God Bless!
 
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countrymousenc

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cweb255 said:
Wow, Christians who aren't helping, but instead quarreling over two words "red" and "reed." Bah, maybe I shouldn't be a Christian after all. I mean, what good is a God whose own followers do not even follow his words.

One thing you need to know right away, cweb255, is that all human beings are sinners; we all do some bad things. So, Christian faith is for healing spiritually sick people, and it is a life-long process. It's truth does not depend on our being instantly perfect. But, we do get better.

There are a lot of charlatans out there (like some of the televangelists) hawking false gospels for material gain and for personal fame.

There is also a Church that has been here ever since Pentecost, about 33AD. In spite of persecution and even internal strife, it is still here. It is still, in every generation, a hospital for the spiritually sick, but I finally turned to the Orthodox Church because it was the only one in which I could have full confidence, because it continues to teach and practice what Christ and the Apostles gave it from the beginning. I invite you to give it a try.

And, visit us in Congregation at the TAW forum. You and your questions will be welcomed.

-Dianne
 
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cweb255

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I have abonded the churches. Everything that comes from the pulpit I can't trust. But Suzannah, you mentioned biblical Jesus? And biblical church? How am I to believe these things as well, as they contradict what the Bible says. Am I to read the word as Ainesis said or am I to believe the scientists. It is all very confusing.

And thank you both for replying. I am sorry for lashing out so openly. Not all Christians can be bad, right?
 
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Ainesis

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cweb255 said:
I have abonded the churches. Everything that comes from the pulpit I can't trust. But Suzannah, you mentioned biblical Jesus? And biblical church? How am I to believe these things as well, as they contradict what the Bible says. Am I to read the word as Ainesis said or am I to believe the scientists. It is all very confusing.

And thank you both for replying. I am sorry for lashing out so openly. Not all Christians can be bad, right?
Ahh CWeb, don't worry about it. If anything is certain it is that man will let you down. ;) That is why it is so good to know that our hope is not in man.

Tell me, have you accepted Jesus as your Lord & Savior? If so, what led you to make this decision (if you care to share)? I ask, not to pry, but to try and get a better understanding of where you are in your walk. Christianity is not about placing trust in man, but in coming to know God the Father though His Son.

I agree with Suzannah. Scripture itself says that some will use the name of Jesus to promote false gospels. I would encourage you to pray to God and ask for His Spirit to reveal His Truths to you.
 
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cweb255

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Ok, thanks again for replying. But how do I know that the gospels aren't in fact false gospels? After all, it was all voted on at Nicea, along with the Nicene Creed?

Yes, I am saved. I have been saved ever since I was a child. What is the point? I know the scriptures to the point that even my other Christian friends and the pastors don't have the answers I'm looking for. A relationship with God? I think I do. But lately he's been silent.
 
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Ainesis

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What is the point of being saved? Or what is the point of my asking? :)

I ask because you indicate in your initial posts some swerving between lifestyles and/or belief systems, so I was just curious.

I don't really think anyone will be able to convince you of the authenticity of the Gospels. At least, I know no one could for me. It is a supernatural work and it takes a supernatural work of God through faith to reveal its meaning to us. That is why I recommended study and prayer. The best way to know whether the Scriptures are indeed the word of God is to read them and know what they say for yourself. Again, if you are up for a Bible study, let me know and we can start conversing via email. I don't have all the answers, but I can promise to discuss them with you prayerfully and provide insights where I can. A local congregation is also still a good idea!
 
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SumTinWong

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cweb255 said:
Not all Christians can be bad, right?
No not at all. There are quite a few Christians here that have gone through what you have, and perhaps through conversations you will find the right people. :)

As far as are the Gospels false I would ask you then how do you know then that you are saved? Or that you have been saved since you were a child? If the Gospels are not true then it is an easy step to believe that maybe God is not real and that you are not saved either. The Gospels themselves point to God in the flesh coming down to the earth and dying for your sins. If you cannot trust what they say and take them on faith, then where do you find your salvation?

Many people feel that God is silent and that He has moved from them. God said He would never leave us or forsake us, so if we are far from God it is us who have moved not him. If God is silent then what was the last thing you felt Him saying to you?

I truly hope this helps!
 
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Suzannah

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cweb255 said:
I have abonded the churches. Everything that comes from the pulpit I can't trust.
Once upon a time, in a mental/emotional galaxy, far, far, away, Suzannah felt that way too....I have felt what you might be feeling.....:hug:

But Suzannah, you mentioned biblical Jesus? And biblical church?
Actually, I said "historical Jesus" and "historical church". The church He founded at Pentecost still exists without change. By studying history, you can discover who Jesus was and is, and what His Church teaches. You may be surprised to discover that what you find currently difficult, is not a problem.

How am I to believe these things as well, as they contradict what the Bible says. Am I to read the word as Ainesis said or am I to believe the scientists. It is all very confusing.

And thank you both for replying. I am sorry for lashing out so openly. Not all Christians can be bad, right?

I am unsure as to what you meant by "these things". Studying Scripture is very important, yes. But many read the Scripture, study it, and forget to pray. Further, many study it, read it and find it that it is a mystery. This is because those who believe they can interpret it on their own, without a guide, often come to a diametrically opposed conclusion than their neighbor.
This is why I said, you should also study history and the historical church and what it teaches.

Christ Is Preached to an Ethiopian
(1) 26 Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, "Arise and go toward the south along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." This is desert. 27So he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet. 29Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go near and overtake this chariot."
30So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 32The place in the Scripture which he read was this:


"He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
33In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth."[2]


34So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" (note: Remember that Philip was taught and ordained by the Apostles and a deacon in the early church)35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

Having a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ, means so much more than acknowledging that He lived and died and that He is your "personal Lord and Savior." It means understanding Him through His teachings, spending more time in prayer, and loving Him for who He is, not for what He is purported to be by preachers.

Hebrews 10:31
"To fall into the hands of the living God is a fearful thing".

Study history. But pray always.
Love,
Suzannah
 
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visionary

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I see the Lord has been leading you out, and you are wondering where is the Lord leading you. From what I have gathered on this thread, you have enough ecripture understanding to see the errors of a lot of "churches" in doctrine and in facts. SO you are wondering where do you do from Here. In your spiritual walk you have left the traditions of men, let go of the authorities of the churches, turned you back on lies, and you are wondering what is left.

You still have a hold of your saviour's hand, who has lead you this far. You still have the scripture before you, though you are now questioning its authenticity. BE rest assured, the Lord has not left us void of His Word. His Word is spiritually discerned, and your state of spiritually discernment needs to be upgraded. Take the Lord's promise of Rev 3:20 to heart. Make it your own. Claim it for your own personal experience. Pray that the Lord will come knock at your door and sup with you and you with Him. God is personally interested in continuing leading you into greater truth.

Repent with the repentance of one who wants God to show Him how to truly repent, showing the depth, width and breath of sin in all its abhorance in God's eyes so that you too can feel the same way regarding the "little (it's ok) sins" of your life. Have God open up the Book of Your Life. Have God go through your life now, before the judgment. Have God reveal to you what is separating you from God, so that you can experience a closer walk with Him. You know that sins separates you from God. You know that you need to repent to come closer to God. Your heart, in starting this thread, was to find an answer to the unanswered prayers. God has the answer to your prayer and it starts by leading you to the feet of Jesus for a one on one experience.

There are many on the narrow path along the way, and they too have spiritually been at this point in their spiritual life as you are, and by faith they have continued knowing that God has lead them this far, and are unwilling to turn back to that which they know God has lead them from. You are blessed of God to get this far, and you will continue to be blessed as you continue to draw closer and closer to God.

May the Lord keep you busy learning of Him until His return.

Visionary
 
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SPALATIN

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cweb255 said:
Hello Christians,

As a short introduction, I am in need of spiritual confirmation. I have lived several different lifestyles, starting with my parents being in a sexual cult during my very early childhood, and then going on into general skepticism. All I need though is some sort of proof that what God wants me to follow isn't made up by man and sleazy televangelists who solicit prostitutes yet pretend to be on a higher moral pedestal than me.
First and foremost have you heard the Word of God? If so then you know that the word of God through his Son came down to be among us. His word in both old and new testaments would not be approving of the stuff you were exposed to as a young child. I also agree with you that you need to stay away from the televangelists. I would suggest looking into some of the more orthodox denominations instead of the denominations supported by the televangelists. By orthodox I mean Lutheran, Eastern Orthox or even Catholic.

Next you need to realize that there is no "perfect" church. There are going to be sinners in all of them. The Church is not a place for "perfect" people. It is about faith, hope and love. It is a hospital for sinners of which we all share that commonality. Feel free to come to the Lutheran Forum (Theologia Crucis-Confessional Lutherans) and ask any questions you may have.
 
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cweb255

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Hm... Lutherans, eh? But doesn't James say, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

This is what I'm talking about. So many people claim that "God" gave them their interpretation, yet we all fight over what is right. Can't we agree, at least, on what the Bible says?

visionary, thank you for the kind words. I truly believe that God is calling me out for something, but what that is, I do not know. I feel that the Word is something that I should follow, yet if I follow the Word, I get mixed responses. I'm not feeling right about the Nicene Creed or about Paul's letters. There is just something inside me that leans towards James, Revelations, Jude, and the Gospels. The secrets lie in the words of Jesus spoken, not interpreted. Is it wrong for me to question the founder Paul?
 
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Ainesis

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cweb255 said:
There is just something inside me that leans towards James, Revelations, Jude, and the Gospels. The secrets lie in the words of Jesus spoken, not interpreted. Is it wrong for me to question the founder Paul?
It is not wrong for yout to question Paul or any man. Even Paul recognized this (I Cor. 4:3). God will prove to you all that is true, as long as you are sincere in your search for truth.

However, it IS wrong to assume that the only words jesus spoke were words that came directly from His lips. Jesus spoke while on the earth physically, and He also spoke before and after that time through the voices of men.

Consider the following:

"But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying" Matthew 22:31

If you trust the words of Jesus, then here Jesus is saying that somewhere there exists a written documentation of what God has spoken. God's words are wriiten down, so now you have to decide where those words are.

It is great to search, for how can we find if we do not seek. But don't do so with preconceived notions about what is or is not of God. Let Him show you, so that you will have a solid foundation and relationship upon which to build your faith.

God Bless!
 
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Bon

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cweb255 said:
Hm... Lutherans, eh? But doesn't James say, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

This is what I'm talking about. So many people claim that "God" gave them their interpretation, yet we all fight over what is right. Can't we agree, at least, on what the Bible says?

visionary, thank you for the kind words. I truly believe that God is calling me out for something, but what that is, I do not know. I feel that the Word is something that I should follow, yet if I follow the Word, I get mixed responses. I'm not feeling right about the Nicene Creed or about Paul's letters. There is just something inside me that leans towards James, Revelations, Jude, and the Gospels. The secrets lie in the words of Jesus spoken, not interpreted. Is it wrong for me to question the founder Paul?

Hi there cweb255,

I grew up in a family who believed ONLY in the word of Yahweh(God).

My father would not compromise with the truth of His word by going to a church, because he (my Dad) beleived that there wasn't a church, anywhere that completely followed the bible. He always found discrepancies in one form or another.

So, although we were avid bible believers, we NEVER went to church.

We would have bible readings on the Sabbath (Saturday) and rest on that day.
We would fast on Yom Kippur and keep Passover and the feast of Unleavened bread. Yet we believed in Yahshua (Jesus) as our saviour also.
But we were observant to the laws of Yahweh (God).

We thought we were the only people in the whole world who believed this way.....

.....until the internet several decades later.

I found that there were others of like-mindedness, in small pockets (groups) all over the world.
They call themselves Messianic Jews, or Messianic believers, and as one person here on the forums prefers to define himself, Apostolic Judaism (which is how the apostles of the 1st century believed, observed and lived. (That, to me is how I was brought up.)

So I have found a wonderful conglomerate of Messianic believers right here on the internet....and even here on the forums.

Now I am not alone in my plight as I was all my early adult years when I would lose my way continuously, because I felt isolated from those around me. And even though I still have days like this because those of like-mindedness have no faces and loneliness is still a factor, I can also feel sprirtually at ease, because I now know that there are so many others on the same "narrow path" as I.....
....and Yahweh knows, that the "Narrow path is hard, and those who find it are few".

Ohhh! what a wonderful and comforting thought.

I feel so very blessed every day of my life.

May Yahweh bless you and keep you and guide you into the truth that is there for the taking if only you care to.

Shalom (peace) from Bon
 
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visionary

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cweb255 said:
visionary, thank you for the kind words. I truly believe that God is calling me out for something, but what that is, I do not know. I feel that the Word is something that I should follow, yet if I follow the Word, I get mixed responses. I'm not feeling right about the Nicene Creed or about Paul's letters. There is just something inside me that leans towards James, Revelations, Jude, and the Gospels. The secrets lie in the words of Jesus spoken, not interpreted. Is it wrong for me to question the founder Paul?
Responses that we get from others are not as important as the contentment we get from Christ when we are in harmony with His Word.

True, Paul is unique among all the Biblical writers and because of his training in Pharasee Judaism being as extensive as it was before conversion, it is difficult to understand some of what he is saying as we are gentiles without the Judaism education background. It would be like reading the medical journal on the latest research without the medical dictionary to understand
what the terms mean and what the author is trying to say.

If there is any particular verse or doctrine that because it seems to clash with the Nicene Creed or the words of Paul, maybe I can help. PM me if you would like. We are a community of believers that are all looking forward to a more closer relationship with God. Personally, I have found that the most satisfying answer always comes from God, but that He can use anyone to get the message to me. Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and you shall find.

The most important step in the spiritual journey to a better and more closer relationship with God is study the Bible to:

1) learn what the kingdom of God is
2) learn what is His Righteousness


Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

And then God says that all those questions you have now will make sense.
 
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Henaynei

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cweb255 said:
Wow, Christians who aren't helping, but instead quarreling over two words "red" and "reed." Bah, maybe I shouldn't be a Christian after all. I mean, what good is a God whose own followers do not even follow his words.
The good is in G-d, what good His fraile and faulty followers do have we have received form Him. Imperfect people, even Believers, only show how great is the Love of G-d and how much we NEED His grace and mercy. His strength is shown perfect in my weakness....
 
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Henaynei

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BTW- if it was man's standard of perfection it would be one that most anyone could meet the bar on, and yet only a very few would be allowed to actually make it - as G-d's standard of perfection, while the bar is too high for anyone to reach, yet everyone has equal copportunity to be accepted..... it is often called The Upside-Down Kingdon... it is just the polar opposite of what man would create on his own!
 
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Let me see if I have this straight, and please correct me if I am wrong:


You believe in God and that you are saved, but you do not trust the church or the Bible to be accurate?

Since the Bible is the primary source of information about God and salvation--how can you trust in one without the other?
Churches and their leaders can be misled or misleading, but that is a fault of man, not God or His word.

I think the situation here calls for much prayer. You say you know the scriptures, but do you just know how to quote them or how to apply them to your life? Many can quote scripture: fewer live it. Pray that God will open your eyes, heart and mind to what scripture has to say to YOU before you even open your Bible to read and study. You must strengthen your faith and rely less on your own self and need for proof.

Celtie
 
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