Help me understand the meaning of something i read in Mark 12

KirkPsalm

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Context, Mark 12:18-27
vs. 24 KJV : And Jesus answering said unto them. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know ot the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Jesus schools the knowledgeable Sadducees of the meaning of Old Testament Scripture. I assume he is referring to Deuteronomy.
He explains that those in Heaven will not marry and will not be given in marriage, is this in the Bible somewhere else? and the why does he explain in vs. 26 about touching the dead, that they rise, and about God speaking from the bush and how he is the God of the living.

If you have some understanding or insight on this passage I'd love to hear it.
 

Friedrich Rubinstein

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About the last part:
God refers to Himself as "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob". When God said that to Moses all three of them had died already. But God is a God of the living, not of the dead. Therefore there has to be a resurrection of the dead (in other words, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not really dead).
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Context, Mark 12:18-27
vs. 24 KJV : And Jesus answering said unto them. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know ot the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Jesus schools the knowledgeable Sadducees of the meaning of Old Testament Scripture. I assume he is referring to Deuteronomy.
He explains that those in Heaven will not marry and will not be given in marriage, is this in the Bible somewhere else? and the why does he explain in vs. 26 about touching the dead, that they rise, and about God speaking from the bush and how he is the God of the living.

If you have some understanding or insight on this passage I'd love to hear it.
Welcome! I do not claim to have a full understanding but will give my best to explain how I understand this conversation.
First the "God of the living " are those who have not suffered the "second death" .
They are those in the Body of Christ who's names were not blotted from the book of life and they are righteously clothed in white.
During this altercation, the Saducees tried to snare Jesus Christ of Nazareth with the law. On many occasions both the Pharasis and Saducees used the law against Jesus but rather than entangle Himself with their trickery, He gives them a glimpse of everlasting life. He explains, we will not be under the law of Moses or need to be , as we will all be made perfect in Him. It is also a glimpse of marriage. We are His Bride thus only married to Him.
Hope this helps. Be blessed,
 
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Halbhh

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Context, Mark 12:18-27
vs. 24 KJV : And Jesus answering said unto them. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know ot the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Jesus schools the knowledgeable Sadducees of the meaning of Old Testament Scripture. I assume he is referring to Deuteronomy.
He explains that those in Heaven will not marry and will not be given in marriage, is this in the Bible somewhere else? and the why does he explain in vs. 26 about touching the dead, that they rise, and about God speaking from the bush and how he is the God of the living.

If you have some understanding or insight on this passage I'd love to hear it.
2 key things everyone needs in order to understand verses:

The most important:

Needed context is sometimes (a lot of times actually) only gained while reading fully through a book. And with a listening attitude, to hear what you haven't yet.

But, if you have been reading fully through a book, and even then that fuller context isn't yet enough, then:

Try reading some accurate and helpful modern translations (more than 1), to get the precise meaning clearly.

New International Version
Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?"

New Living Translation
Jesus replied, “Your mistake is that you don’t know the Scriptures, and you don’t know the power of God."

English Standard Version
Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?"

Does that help?

Passage:
18Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19“Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 20Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23At the resurrection c whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

24Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ d ? 27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

Mark 12 NIV

The Sadducees lacked more than anything a full reading in scriptures, and that was the main/real reason they did not understand.
 
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eleos1954

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Context, Mark 12:18-27
vs. 24 KJV : And Jesus answering said unto them. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know ot the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Jesus schools the knowledgeable Sadducees of the meaning of Old Testament Scripture. I assume he is referring to Deuteronomy.
He explains that those in Heaven will not marry and will not be given in marriage, is this in the Bible somewhere else? and the why does he explain in vs. 26 about touching the dead, that they rise, and about God speaking from the bush and how he is the God of the living.

If you have some understanding or insight on this passage I'd love to hear it.

The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection.

The scenario the Sadducees presented in which seven brothers all marry the same woman because none of them produced an heir was implausible, but it was an effective way to question the doctrine of the resurrection.

If the doctrine of the resurrection might lead to the problem of determining which of the brothers got to have the wife they had all married for all eternity—a problem apparently impossible to solve—it could be a teaching worth rethinking.

But as Jesus notes, the purported problem and denial of the resurrection was based on the Sadducees’ failure to know the Scriptures (and the power of God to resurrect the dead)

Matthew 22:32

32‘I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

The Sadducees contained their beliefs within the 1st five books

Yet ...

Exodus 3:6
Then He said, "I am (present tense - not I was) the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being long gone at this time in history. Yet God refers to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob using a present statement in regard to them.

They missed or dismissed the present tense statement made by God ... so they were in error in understanding the scripture.
 
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TzephanYahu

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Hi @KirkPsalm

It seems the Messiah is referring to the Book of Enoch in the passage. This first book of prophecy was removed from the canon along with many others (some even as recent as the late 1800s!) The Book of Enoch is also referenced but the Messiah’s earthly brother in Jude.

I hope that helps.

Peace.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Context, Mark 12:18-27
vs. 24 KJV : And Jesus answering said unto them. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know ot the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Jesus schools the knowledgeable Sadducees of the meaning of Old Testament Scripture. I assume he is referring to Deuteronomy.
He explains that those in Heaven will not marry and will not be given in marriage, is this in the Bible somewhere else? and the why does he explain in vs. 26 about touching the dead, that they rise, and about God speaking from the bush and how he is the God of the living.

If you have some understanding or insight on this passage I'd love to hear it.
Some here, at least one, mentions the corrupted book of Enoch, mentioned by Jude which may give more insight...I do not know. However, one need not know where it may be stated elsewhere in Scripture because even if it is not even mentioned Jesus may simply be stating that they do not yet understand all that is to be known...which is how I take it. One should arrive at Biblical truth however from the example the Sadducees themselves presented to Jesus. If one truly believes all things are possible with God then we do not extrapolate from our world events to prove this Biblical truth but rather the other way around...from Scripture example we see truth...again, knowing God's power...as Abraham did indeed understood in preparing to sacrifice his only son...Hebrews states that Abraham reasoned God could bring him back to life.
Again in verse 26, the Sadducees do not see the power of God and so they instead take a worldly view.
 
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pescador

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The Sadducees were presenting a hypothetical (absurd) scenario to try to trick Jesus. It was akin to "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". Verse 24 : " Jesus said to them, “Aren’t you deceived for this reason, because you don’t know the scriptures or the power of God?" His response was, or course, right on. He showed them that their trick question had its origin in their ignorance.
 
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Clare73

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He showed that the spirits of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were still alive and, therefore, there would be a resurrection of their bodies,
by showing that long after Abrahan, Isaac and Jacob were dead, God said to Moses, "I am (not "was") the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob."
And because God is the God of the living, not the God of the dead, that makes the spirits of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still alive.
It demonstrates that human spirits are immortal and that there would be a resurrection.

Denial of the resurrection was based on denial of the immortality of the human spirit.
 
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Davy

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Context, Mark 12:18-27
vs. 24 KJV : And Jesus answering said unto them. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know ot the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Jesus schools the knowledgeable Sadducees of the meaning of Old Testament Scripture. I assume he is referring to Deuteronomy.
He explains that those in Heaven will not marry and will not be given in marriage, is this in the Bible somewhere else? and the why does he explain in vs. 26 about touching the dead, that they rise, and about God speaking from the bush and how he is the God of the living.

If you have some understanding or insight on this passage I'd love to hear it.

So you've been taught men's false doctrine called 'soul sleep' huh?

The idea that when our flesh body dies that we then sleep in the casket in the ground, waiting on Jesus' coming and the resurrection, that comes from the orthodox Jew's Old Testament traditional beliefs. They don't study New Testament, so they are behind in understanding what actually happens at flesh death.

The orthodox Jews believe that in Genesis 2:7, the 'soul' can only manifest with a flesh body. So basically, that is to say that when our flesh dies and goes back to the earth where it came from, our soul has no way to manifest, and we must wait for the resurrection when God will put both back together. Ezekiel 37 shows a literal picture of this putting flesh back together, but like I said, that is not the New Testament view, that is what the Old Testament Jews believed (and still believe today). God simply did not reveal the detail about it in the Old Testament like He did in the New Testament.

In Matthew 10:28, Lord Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul. That right there is His admission that our 'soul' part continues on to The Father in the heavenly.

But this was indeed hinted at also in the Old Testament Scriptures, it's just not often heeded.

Eccl 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV


Lord Jesus was actually teaching the same idea there, the flesh is one type of operation, and the spirit is another type operation. Per Matthew 10:28, we know our 'soul' continues after flesh death, so this means our 'spirit' does also, and that our spirit and soul are connected in going back to God.

The orthodox Jews don't believe this, they depend on flesh. Most of them don't really understand the idea of the heavenly dimension, some of them even wrongly thinking that the heavenly is still part of this material universe. It is not. It is a whole other dimension altogether. It is invisible, hidden behind a veil, and only those God allows can see it (like Paul in 2 Corinthians 12, or Isaiah in Isaiah 6, etc.).

Therefore, when Lord Jesus said that God is The GOD of the living, and not of the dead, He was pointing to the "spirits in prison" type of thing in 1 Peter 3 & 4.

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

KJV

This is why we should not worry about our beloved brethren that have already died in Christ, because they are with Jesus right now, just like Jesus showed about the poor beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom in Luke 16.
 
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Clare73

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So you've been taught men's false doctrine called 'soul sleep' huh?

The idea that when our flesh body dies that we then sleep in the casket in the ground, waiting on Jesus' coming and the resurrection, that comes from the orthodox Jew's Old Testament traditional beliefs. They don't study New Testament, so they are behind in understanding what actually happens at flesh death.

The orthodox Jews believe that in Genesis 2:7, the 'soul' can only manifest with a flesh body. So basically, that is to say that
when our flesh dies and goes back to the earth where it came from, our soul has no way to manifest, and we must wait for the resurrection
So they did not deny immortality of the soul, they just believed the soul slept in the ground rather than going back to God, to be rejoined to the body at the resurrection (except for the Sadducees), and the Orthodox Jews today still believe in "soul sleep" and a resurrection?
when God will put both back together. Ezekiel 37 shows a literal picture of this putting flesh back together, but like I said, that is not the New Testament view, that is what the Old Testament Jews believed (and still believe today). God simply did not reveal the detail about it in the Old Testament like He did in the New Testament.
In Matthew 10:28, Lord Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul. That right there is His admission that our 'soul' part continues on to The Father in the heavenly.
But as stated, does that exclude soul "sleep" (apart from Eccl 12:7) where the soul is not killed?
But this was indeed hinted at also in the Old Testament Scriptures, it's just not often heeded.

Eccl 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV


Lord Jesus was actually teaching the same idea there, the flesh is one type of operation, and the spirit is another type operation. Per Matthew 10:28, we know our 'soul' continues after flesh death, so this means our 'spirit' does also, and that our spirit and soul are connected in going back to God.

The orthodox Jews don't believe this, they depend on flesh. Most of them don't really understand the idea of the heavenly dimension, some of them even wrongly thinking that the heavenly is still part of this material universe. It is not. It is a whole other dimension altogether. It is invisible, hidden behind a veil, and only those God allows can see it (like Paul in 2 Corinthians 12, or Isaiah in Isaiah 6, etc.).

Therefore, when Lord Jesus said that God is The GOD of the living, and not of the dead, He was pointing to the "spirits in prison" type of thing in 1 Peter 3 & 4.

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

KJV

This is why we should not worry about our beloved brethren that have already died in Christ, because they are with Jesus right now, just like Jesus showed about the poor beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom in Luke 16.
 
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Davy

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So they did not deny immortality of the soul, they just believed the soul slept in the ground rather than going back to God, to be rejoined to the body at the resurrection (except for the Sadducees), and the Orthodox Jews today still believe in "soul sleep" and a resurrection?
But as stated, does that exclude soul "sleep" (apart from Eccl 12:7) where the soul is not killed?

The idea of the 'soul' sleeping in the ground wrongly assigns the soul as a 'material object' of THIS WORLD, which is not true, nor Biblical.

The idea for the saints being 'asleep' is an expression, not to point to what literally happens at death of our flesh body. But Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, that is science about what literally happens at death, even revealing the "silver cord" idea that keeps both spirit and flesh together while the flesh is alive on earth.

The existence of that "silver cord" also reveals something else very profound. It is proof of what Lord Jesus said in John 3 about the flesh being one type of operation, and the Spirit and our spirit being of another type operation. It's a declaration of two distinctly different dimensions of existence, this earthly vs. the heavenly.
 
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Clare73

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Clare73 said:
So they did not deny immortality of the soul,
they just believed the soul slept in the ground rather than going back to God, to be rejoined to the body at the resurrection (except for the Sadducees), and the Orthodox Jews today still believe in "soul sleep" and a resurrection?
But as stated, does that exclude soul "sleep" (apart from Eccl 12:7) where the soul is not killed?
The idea of the 'soul' sleeping in the ground wrongly assigns the soul as a 'material object' of THIS WORLD, which is not true, nor Biblical.
The idea for the saints being 'asleep' is an expression, not to point to what literally happens at death of our flesh body. But Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, that is science about what literally happens at death, even revealing the "silver cord" idea that keeps both spirit and flesh together while the flesh is alive on earth.
The existence of that "silver cord" also reveals something else very profound. It is proof of what Lord Jesus said in John 3 about the flesh being one type of operation, and the Spirit and our spirit being of another type operation. It's a declaration of two distinctly different dimensions of existence, this earthly vs. the heavenly.
And the answer to my questions?
 
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Davy

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And the answer to my questions?

I did answer you. I showed you the difference between this flesh world, and the heavenly dimension, with examples. Look at it again, carefully.

The idea of the 'soul' sleeping in the ground wrongly assigns the soul as a 'material object' of THIS WORLD, which is not true, nor Biblical.

The idea for the saints being 'asleep' is an expression, not to point to what literally happens at death of our flesh body. But Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, that is science about what literally happens at death, even revealing the "silver cord" idea that keeps both spirit and flesh together while the flesh is alive on earth.

The existence of that "silver cord" also reveals something else very profound. It is proof of what Lord Jesus said in John 3 about the flesh being one type of operation, and the Spirit and our spirit being of another type operation. It's a declaration of two distinctly different dimensions of existence, this earthly vs. the heavenly.

As for the 'soul' part, it is attached to that 'spirit' part of Eccl.12:7 that goes back to God. Thus soul-spirit are hard-linked and cannot be separated, and they both are of the heavenly dimension.
 
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Clare73

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I did answer you. I showed you the difference between this flesh world, and the heavenly dimension, with examples. Look at it again, carefully.

The idea of the 'soul' sleeping in the ground wrongly assigns the soul as a 'material object' of THIS WORLD, which is not true, nor Biblical.

The idea for the saints being 'asleep' is an expression, not to point to what literally happens at death of our flesh body. But Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, that is science about what literally happens at death, even revealing the "silver cord" idea that keeps both spirit and flesh together while the flesh is alive on earth.

The existence of that "silver cord" also reveals something else very profound. It is proof of what Lord Jesus said in John 3 about the flesh being one type of operation, and the Spirit and our spirit being of another type operation. It's a declaration of two distinctly different dimensions of existence, this earthly vs. the heavenly.

As for the 'soul' part, it is attached to that 'spirit' part of Eccl.12:7 that goes back to God. Thus soul-spirit are hard-linked and cannot be separated, and they both are of the heavenly dimension.
My question is what did the Jews of the OT believe about the spirit/soul after death.

Did they believe in spirit/soul sleep, which would mean immortality of the spirit/soul?
 
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Davy

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My question is what did the Jews of the OT believe about the spirit/soul after death.

Did they believe in spirit/soul sleep, which would mean immortality of the spirit/soul?

The Jews believed, and still mostly do, that when the flesh dies, the soul dies with it, and that at the future resurrection God raises both back together again upon the earth. They believe the "spirit" of Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 that goes back to God Who gave it is only about inanimate spirit, like a life-giving force that exists in all things, including plants. They do not believe the soul is included in that. They rely mostly on the Genesis 2:7 Scripture about the creation of the soul with God's breathing the breath of life into flesh. Thus if no flesh, then no soul. The reality per Jesus in Matthew 10:28 is that the soul continues after death of the flesh, but the orthodox Jews don't heed The New Testament Scriptures.

That superstition was one of the ideas Apostle Paul was trying to counter among Christians in the 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter about the resurrection and the two different dimensions, likewise in 2 Corinthians 5.

In Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 though, God through Solomon actually showed the Jews what really happens. They simply bypass it. Through Christ Jesus, The Father actually really opened up many mysteries about His creation in The New Testament Books. In Hebrews 11, pointing to having faith that God created the worlds, we are told that 'things seen were not created by things that appear'. That simply means material matter, the things of this earthly dimension, were not created by material matter. It literally means this earthly dimension was created by something else other than matter. So what other existence is there in God's Word?

In John 4, Lord Jesus said God is "a Spirit", and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. GOD in the spiritual dimension is how this material universe was created. It was created by God's Spirit.

So WHICH dimension is actually the more REAL one, this earthly one we see about us now, or the Heavenly dimension where The Father and The Son and Holy Spirit, and angels are?

If a brother/sister in Christ truly wants to understand much of God's Word to its deepest level, then understanding about those two separate dimensions MUST be understood.
 
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EmethAlethia

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Context, Mark 12:18-27
vs. 24 KJV : And Jesus answering said unto them. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know ot the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Jesus schools the knowledgeable Sadducees of the meaning of Old Testament Scripture. I assume he is referring to Deuteronomy.
He explains that those in Heaven will not marry and will not be given in marriage, is this in the Bible somewhere else? and the why does he explain in vs. 26 about touching the dead, that they rise, and about God speaking from the bush and how he is the God of the living.

If you have some understanding or insight on this passage I'd love to hear it.


The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection of the dead. That is why they were so "Sad U See". Jesus was turning the tables on them. Questions about whose wife someone will be after they are resurrected was just an attempt to catch Jesus in false doctrine.

Mar 12:18 Some Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection) *came to Jesus, and began questioning Him, ...

Jesus turns the tables on them and uses the scriptures to prove that their ancestors are still living and He is still their God.

Mar 12:26 "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob'? 27 "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."
 
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the reason the jews (and so should Christians) see the soul as being dead with the body is quite a simple one. Very early on in the Bible cannon, this topic is addressed in very straight forward language...King Solomon had good insight into the state of the dead when, around 900 years B.C he wrote:

Ecc 9:5
New International Version
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

New Living Translation
The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered.

English Standard Version
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
 
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pescador

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the reason the jews (and so should Christians) see the soul as being dead with the body is quite a simple one. Very early on in the Bible cannon, this topic is addressed in very straight forward language...King Solomon had good insight into the state of the dead when, around 900 years B.C he wrote:

Ecc 9:5
New International Version
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

New Living Translation
The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered.

English Standard Version
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

a) Jews is capitalized
b) This verses make no sense. The dead are remembered in a number of ways: writings, headstones, photos (in the modern age), and others.
c) Taking a single OT verse to establish a universal truth leads to error.
d) This has nothing to do with the OP.

Don't you remember your dead relatives, or at least famous people who have died?
 
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