Help me understand something the Lord taught me: "joy is in the doing through surrendering"

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So this is like a fragment, of something the Holy Spirit inspired me with and I wonder what you make of it:

Joy is in the the doing through surrendering

It is a little similar to "my strength is made perfect through weakness" found in the letters, but the emphasis is on "building" (rather than "making"). It is about building joy. I can understand this from my own life, as God has been revealing to me my "cross", but it is shallow - I am not sure how to deepen it (the building, deepening the building so that the joy is "deeper"). There are lots of things that believers say to do "pray, read the bible, be a doer", but the deepening of faith is slightly different from that; it's more to do with what you "have done, will do and will keep doing".

Supposing for a minute that I am not in danger of anything (from the Law) like losing faith, what is your experience, of how God deepens joy? From what I have said already, you yourself may learn that having a servant's heart is part of it. However, everything beyond that is new to me - I am mindful of not being so Heavenly minded I am of no Earthly good, but indeed that is something that I have learned in pursuit of this very thing (I am just saying I have experience in "advice" that the Church may give and am grateful for it, if only for the greater appetite of the same). There is definitely a change, in my sense of what constitutes "sacrifice", as I think of my own walk with Christ in this regard.

Undoubtedly, you have grown in your own walk with Christ, I guess what I am saying is that I want to "lean in" to what God has for me, to surrender more where the opportunity avails itself. It would be no small victory for God, if I became a "great doer" of the faith - though I am mindful, not to make a pledge prematurely (as it warns against in Proverbs); I guess that is part of the sense of the mystery of the faith: that we want to become more of a mystery ourselves, while Christ grows into the Head, as Truth of our bodies and His. It avails but a moment of reflection between my old life and the new - I guess that is why I have been so tentative, as to seek counsel, on what more there should be (if anything). You be the judge.

I have always sought counsel of the elders, where I have been able to find it and this seems as good a subject as any, to seek the wider experience of the public theology, in fact, I find I must repent I have not asked sooner (certainly the Devil will find a crack where he is able - to work his way in). I have compassion, it is not necessary to rework the faith, to find out where it is "strong", I'm simply surrendering on the greater reputation of the faith, to find what commonly passes for maturity, among those who have known the word and have not had to change the word, to make it fit. I will certainly get experience, in the manner in which I am going, I am even certain I will get the Lord's approval - it just remains to be seen whether I have helped the brethren in process? I should hope that the sentiment that the furtherance of the gospel has been birthed out of the faith of those whose experience is one of complete committal to the strength of this Age that is now dawning upon us.

That's all I really wanted to say, to ask what your experience of deepening joy is - I hope you can help?

Thanks.

EDIT: just finishing here, I realize I have said nothing about the "fire" of the Holy Spirit...

 

[rocknanchor]

Now I am absolutely sure there is truth in the title of your post, but I'll take that one step further for the eventuality of the joy of the Holy Spirit,

There is eventual joy God increases when identifying with the sufferings of Christ.

 

[dqhall]

Hi there,

So this is like a fragment, of something the Holy Spirit inspired me with and I wonder what you make of it:
It is a little similar to "my strength is made perfect through weakness" found in the letters, but the emphasis is on "building" (rather than "making"). It is about building joy. I can understand this from my own life, as God has been revealing to me my "cross", but it is shallow - I am not sure how to deepen it (the building, deepening the building so that the joy is "deeper"). There are lots of things that believers say to do "pray, read the bible, be a doer", but the deepening of faith is slightly different from that; it's more to do with what you "have done, will do and will keep doing".

Supposing for a minute that I am not in danger of anything (from the Law) like losing faith, what is your experience, of how God deepens joy? From what I have said already, you yourself may learn that having a servant's heart is part of it. However, everything beyond that is new to me - I am mindful of not being so Heavenly minded I am of no Earthly good, but indeed that is something that I have learned in pursuit of this very thing (I am just saying I have experience in "advice" that the Church may give and am grateful for it, if only for the greater appetite of the same). There is definitely a change, in my sense of what constitutes "sacrifice", as I think of my own walk with Christ in this regard.

Undoubtedly, you have grown in your own walk with Christ, I guess what I am saying is that I want to "lean in" to what God has for me, to surrender more where the opportunity avails itself. It would be no small victory for God, if I became a "great doer" of the faith - though I am mindful, not to make a pledge prematurely (as it warns against in Proverbs); I guess that is part of the sense of the mystery of the faith: that we want to become more of a mystery ourselves, while Christ grows into the Head, as Truth of our bodies and His. It avails but a moment of reflection between my old life and the new - I guess that is why I have been so tentative, as to seek counsel, on what more there should be (if anything). You be the judge.

I have always sought counsel of the elders, where I have been able to find it and this seems as good a subject as any, to seek the wider experience of the public theology, in fact, I find I must repent I have not asked sooner (certainly the Devil will find a crack where he is able - to work his way in). I have compassion, it is not necessary to rework the faith, to find out where it is "strong", I'm simply surrendering on the greater reputation of the faith, to find what commonly passes for maturity, among those who have known the word and have not had to change the word, to make it fit. I will certainly get experience, in the manner in which I am going, I am even certain I will get the Lord's approval - it just remains to be seen whether I have helped the brethren in process? I should hope that the sentiment that the furtherance of the gospel has been birthed out of the faith of those whose experience is one of complete committal to the strength of this Age that is now dawning upon us.

That's all I really wanted to say, to ask what your experience of deepening joy is - I hope you can help?

Thanks.

EDIT: just finishing here, I realize I have said nothing about the "fire" of the Holy Spirit...

In Jeremiah 38 King Zedekiah and his men were set against the King of Babylon, to resist his army. Jeremiah recommended surrender, for that way they might save their lives. The men took Jeremiah and lowered him into a cistern that had mud at the bottom of it.

Nebuchadnezzer’s army attacked. Those that resisted were killed or led away as slaves to Babylon. Zedekiah, King of Judah, was blinded. Jeremiah and some of the poor were allowed to remain in Judah.

Luke 14:25 (NIV) Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? 29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, 30 saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.’

31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

 

[pdudgeon]

Hi there,

So this is like a fragment, of something the Holy Spirit inspired me with and I wonder what you make of it:
It is a little similar to "my strength is made perfect through weakness" found in the letters, but the emphasis is on "building" (rather than "making"). It is about building joy. I can understand this from my own life, as God has been revealing to me my "cross", but it is shallow - I am not sure how to deepen it (the building, deepening the building so that the joy is "deeper"). There are lots of things that believers say to do "pray, read the bible, be a doer", but the deepening of faith is slightly different from that; it's more to do with what you "have done, will do and will keep doing".

Supposing for a minute that I am not in danger of anything (from the Law) like losing faith, what is your experience, of how God deepens joy? From what I have said already, you yourself may learn that having a servant's heart is part of it. However, everything beyond that is new to me - I am mindful of not being so Heavenly minded I am of no Earthly good, but indeed that is something that I have learned in pursuit of this very thing (I am just saying I have experience in "advice" that the Church may give and am grateful for it, if only for the greater appetite of the same). There is definitely a change, in my sense of what constitutes "sacrifice", as I think of my own walk with Christ in this regard.

Undoubtedly, you have grown in your own walk with Christ, I guess what I am saying is that I want to "lean in" to what God has for me, to surrender more where the opportunity avails itself. It would be no small victory for God, if I became a "great doer" of the faith - though I am mindful, not to make a pledge prematurely (as it warns against in Proverbs); I guess that is part of the sense of the mystery of the faith: that we want to become more of a mystery ourselves, while Christ grows into the Head, as Truth of our bodies and His. It avails but a moment of reflection between my old life and the new - I guess that is why I have been so tentative, as to seek counsel, on what more there should be (if anything). You be the judge.

I have always sought counsel of the elders, where I have been able to find it and this seems as good a subject as any, to seek the wider experience of the public theology, in fact, I find I must repent I have not asked sooner (certainly the Devil will find a crack where he is able - to work his way in). I have compassion, it is not necessary to rework the faith, to find out where it is "strong", I'm simply surrendering on the greater reputation of the faith, to find what commonly passes for maturity, among those who have known the word and have not had to change the word, to make it fit. I will certainly get experience, in the manner in which I am going, I am even certain I will get the Lord's approval - it just remains to be seen whether I have helped the brethren in process? I should hope that the sentiment that the furtherance of the gospel has been birthed out of the faith of those whose experience is one of complete committal to the strength of this Age that is now dawning upon us.

That's all I really wanted to say, to ask what your experience of deepening joy is - I hope you can help?

Thanks.

EDIT: just finishing here, I realize I have said nothing about the "fire" of the Holy Spirit...

What I have found is that letting go of the burden and resentment of the work that is put upon me, then sets me free indeed.
And then I am free to understand the deeper meaning of the cross that Christ carried for me, the sacrifice that God required of Him, and the pure joy of Easter at last.

 

[pdudgeon]

Nothing that is asked of me is greater than what God asked of Jesus.

 

[Dave G.]

Philippians 4:4 comes to mind right now and it just happens to be my verse of the day: "Rejoice in the Lord always and again I say rejoice" ! Recognizing what he did for us has been on my mind lately and it took my wife's passing back in Dec to get me on this deeper path. Because I know where she is and why she is there. I didn't so much recognize that in her while walking on earth and likewise it shed the same light onto Jesus himself. It's the picture or vision I received the day after her death that triggered this and it keeps growing ( not the vision but the impact). And I'm in a similar boat as you, what to do with that. Well share it is the best I can reason.Share it in Christ, bringing Him in first and sharing it to His glory. We live in days of great deception and here I have this affirmation of what God has done for us in a very real and meaningful way. So many will never receive it, never believe, never understand the work of that cross in which we find joy. Yes remorse that He had to go through it, a shaking revelation sometimes with tears but joy comes after. People want to hang Him back on the cross in their worship, to me all that is hanging there is a document from heaven along with several others all with names on them, my document included. And a big red stamp saying Not Guilty from the courts of heaven. Why, because he died, was buried and rose again but left purifying blood at that cross. Had He not risen our faith would be a pile of junk but He did rise and the cross is now empty but for our sins.

Who could not rejoice ! This world can rob our happiness but it can never touch our joy in the Lord. We have this joy,yet He is so much bigger than us, an unsearchable God who knows us better than we do. Some answers we will never get till we pass through that gateway I saw my wife pass through. On the other side is pure beauty and the greatest purest white light you could ever imagine, she immersed into that and will reside in it for eternity.. If I'm honest I think I'm a bit jealous, though I miss her physically being here I rejoice for her for where she is ! She like Paul met the goal, as I look back over her life she was so much more ready than me, more active though we both have had great faith. But hers was unquestioning faith always.

 

[Petros2015]

Reading the title of your post, I am reminded of a marathon runner;
His experience is perhaps not one of joy during the race
But, it is exactly as the title describes
The joy of pushing past through suffering to achieve his goal
He does not run the race "in order" to suffer the pain of extreme physical exertion
But he runs the race to show himself and others that he can triumph over it

Such a man can run a marathon race of 1, against no one but himself
And still feel triumph, surprise and amazement
At the end

Does a father, on seeing his son set out on a long journey, tell him to pass sleepless nights, to eat little, to get wet through, or to freeze? Will he not rather say to him, 'Go, and if on the road you are cold or hungry, do not be discouraged but go on'? ~What I Believe, Leo Tolstoy

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The title sounds a like something saint Francis would say!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Surrender is a matured version of faith, so it would make sense if more joy was received when working together with God on something.