Help me do a scientific paper on the Great Flood.

JackRT

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So if there was not a worldwide flood then what is the bible talking about. I believe it is more than an allegory as Jesus also refers to the event. Possible may be a localised flood around what was probably considered the ancient world. In those days without the knowledge, the world may have been what was known and they had no idea that the rest of the planet existed. As it was in ancient times people thought all different things about the world such as the earth was flat in the days of Columbus.

So people could not have known how big the world was because there just wasn't enough knowledge about it. So the writer of the flood story could not have been able to make a proper judgement on how big the world was and if they did they had more scientific knowledge that people had centuries later. Chances are the ancient people thought the world was as far as the eye could see or as far as they had heard about from travellers.

It is interesting that there are many flood stories around the middle east especially around Mesopotamia and all around the time of Noah. The Babylonian flood story "The Epic of Gilgamesh" is one. Some say it may be talking about the same event. So maybe there was a big flood around the Middle East that people think was a worldwide flood. Maybe it served as the biblical story that got Gods message across.

Flood Myths in the Religions of the Ancient World

There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 25 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 5600 BC due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.
 
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Aman777

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So if there was not a worldwide flood then what is the bible talking about. I believe it is more than an allegory as Jesus also refers to the event. Possible may be a localised flood around what was probably considered the ancient world. In those days without the knowledge, the world may have been what was known and they had no idea that the rest of the planet existed. As it was in ancient times people thought all different things about the world such as the earth was flat in the days of Columbus.

So people could not have known how big the world was because there just wasn't enough knowledge about it. So the writer of the flood story could not have been able to make a proper judgement on how big the world was and if they did they had more scientific knowledge that people had centuries later. Chances are the ancient people thought the world was as far as the eye could see or as far as they had heard about from travellers.

It is interesting that there are many flood stories around the middle east especially around Mesopotamia and all around the time of Noah. The Babylonian flood story "The Epic of Gilgamesh" is one. Some say it may be talking about the same event. So maybe there was a big flood around the Middle East that people think was a worldwide flood. Maybe it served as the biblical story that got Gods message across.

Flood Myths in the Religions of the Ancient World

Correct. It was 11,000 years ago in the mountains of Ararat, in Lake Van, Turkey where Adam's solid firmament sank, releasing the Ark into our world. That is God's Truth which will be confirmed by Science and History in the last days of our Earth. Dan 12:4
 
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Wolseley

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One more comment, and then I promise to depart, never to be heard from again. ;)

The account of the Flood is not just a Middle Eastern story, nor is it just a Biblical story. Memories of a devastating, world-wide deluge are found among the ancient mythologies of the following regions and peoples (this is not an exhaustive list; there are at least twice as many accounts from different sources as I have listed here):

In Europe: the Druids (Britain), the Voguls (Russia), the Finns, Lapps, Icelanders, Norwegians, and Swedes (Scandinavia); the Greeks, the Welsh, the Irish, the Italians, the Spanish, and the Romanians.

In Asia: the Hebrews, the Muslims, the Arabs, the Andaman islanders, Afghans, Borneans, Babylonians and Assyrians; the Copts, the Chingpaw people from Burma, the Cambodians and Laotians; the Chinese, the Banum people of Taiwan, several different peoples from India, the Dusan people in Indonesia, the Bataks from Sumatra; the natives of Ceram, Flores, Timor, and West Irian; the Japanese, Malaysians, the Selung people of the Mergui Archipelago; the Mongolians, Persians, Filipinos, the Buriats from Siberia, the Sikkimese, the Kalyani people from Ceylon, the Tibetan Lepcha people, and the ancient Sumerians.

In the Americas: the Aleuts, Tlingits, and Kolushes from Alaska; the Papagos, Pawnees, and Pimas from Arizona; the Kaskas, Loucheux, and Okanagans from British Columbia; the Katos, Utes, and Wintuns from California; the Dakotas, Chickasaws, Delawares, Greenland Eskimos, Tahoes, Zunis, Haidas, Chocktaws, Hopis, and the Chimakums, Chippewas, Makahs, Mandans, and Quilentes. In Central and South America, the Aztecs, Maya, Mixtecs, Caribs, Nicaraguas, Araucanians; and the Aberdervs, Botocudos, Cashinauas, Coroados, Ipurianas, Kataushis, Parrays, Tupis, and Guaranis from Brazil; the Yurucares, Chibchas, Cararis, Macusis, Mbocobis, and numerous other tribes from Peru and Venezuela.

From Oceania: the Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maoris, Fiji Islanders, Tahitians, Hawaiians, Papuans, and Samoans.

Finally, from Africa, we have accounts from the following peoples: the Bantus, Bermagais, Egyptians, Hottentots, Kangas, Loangas, Masai, Basutos, Ovahereros, Somalis, Sudanese, and Wanyoros.

Now, surely, that many parallel accounts of the same event, referenced by that many different peoples, located that far apart from one another, cannot be coincidence. Taken as a whole, these ancient stories add up to a shared memory of an actual disaster, that took place a long, long time ago, and which lodged in the human psyche.

"So," we now ask, "if this is an actual memory of an actual event, how could such a thing possibly take place? It's impossible!"

Well, no, not exactly; it could happen; you just have to think outside the box. ;) If we can step away from the flawed and outworn idea of Lyellian uniformitarianism for a bit, it's quite plausible that such an event could happen. In this particular case, the present is not the key to the past. A goodly portion of our current geography can be explained (better, in my humble opinion) by catastrophism than it can by uniformitarianism. A disastrous event took place that changed things forever, which is only dimly recalled in ancient writings, and which the august minds of our present day have sniffingly dismissed as mythical nonsense. So, what was this catastrophic event, we ask? A short summary I will recount below, but first, this disclaimer:

I am fully aware that there are those of you reading this who will, shall we say, disagree with the scenario presented. You know who you are, so I will simply recommend that you might want to warm up your scorn, sarcasm, derision, and ad hominem machines, because what follows will undoubtedly fill you with no end of mirth and hilarity. For myself, I have already braced for the inevitable wave of attacks and abuse that will be heaped upon my head by my fellow, compassionate Christians, who have no bounds in their tolerance and kindness towards poor, miserable beings like me, who dare to suggest that there just may an alternative interpretation of things that varies from The Standard Template®™. I have, as I mentioned earlier, been through this before; and the reactions that will result are invariably both predictably repetitive and tiresome. So, with that out of the way.....

Approximately 13,000 years ago, a large star in the general vicinity of the constellation Vela exploded in a supernova. Massive chunks of this star whipped away from the supernova site in all directions, headed out into space. One large chunk, which may not have been all that sizeable, but which undoubtedly possessed an extremely dense mass and a powerful magnetic field, headed towards our solar system. It probably entered the outer edges of our system about 11,500 years ago.

As the supernova remnant sped towards the Sun, it crossed paths with Neptune. Due to the remnant's mass and electromagnetic strength, it wrenched one of Neptune's moons out of its orbit and sent it off on a new, eccentric orbit that was asymmetrical to the other bodies in the solar system; today we call that moon and its satellite Pluto and Charon. Moving further into the system, the remnant encountered Uranus, and the heavy gravitational pull it exerted may be the reason that Uranus is flipped over on its side, rotating in what we would view as a horizontal fashion, rather than vertical.

The remnant's effect on Saturn and Jupiter was negligible, probably because their orbits were out of the remnant's direct line of flight. However, at that time, orbiting between Jupiter and Mars, there was likely another large planet, boasting at least one large moon; the ancient Akkadians listed this planet as being located between Lahmu (their name for Mars) and Kishar (their name for Jupiter). They referred to this planet as Tiamat, and its large moon they called Kingu. As the supernova remnant approached, however, the electromagnetic and gravitational forces between the remnant (which the Akkadians called Marduk, the Egyptians called Set, and the classical Greeks called Phaeton or Typhon) caused the planet to break up and implode. A huge amount of rocky debris from Tiamat's destruction now orbits between Mars and Jupiter as an asteroid belt. Meanwhile, an additional cloud of debris was pulled along in the remnant's wake, along with Tiamat's moon, Kingu.

The remnant's next target, of course, was Earth. Earth, at this time, probably rotated straight up and down on a vertical axis; it probably had more land area because it had less water, it's seasons were much gentler, and the land masses were probably distributed on an east-west arrangement, rather than the north-south situation we have now. Earth's Moon probably orbited a bit differently than it does now, as well.

The remnant passed very, very close by Earth; had it been any closer, this planet likely would have been completely torn apart just as Tiamat was. As it was, the geographic upheaval on Earth was beyond description, although the ancient chroniclers tried. The Greeks described the remnant as resembling "a ball of fire; it was twisted like a coil, and it was very grim to behold". The ancient Hindus described it as "a dreadful spectacle", inspiring fear and terror in everyone who saw it. The "coil" effect was probably residue from Tiamat, whirling in the remnant's wake. The gravitational and electromagnetic interchanges between the remnant and Earth were of such a scale that the Earth's crust literally cracked---if you examine any map of the ocean floor, you will plainly see the planet-wide crack that runs around between the continental areas on the ocean floor. The crust upheaved, and seas poured into the abysses, causing oceans to literally boil; volcanic activity increased on a titanic scale, and while new areas were thrust up from the mantle and crust (high mountains such as the Andes, Himalayas, Alps, and Rockies), other areas that had been land sank into the ocean (the "submerged continent" lying east of Madagascar in the Indian Ocean---and, possibly, Atlantis? Lemuria? Mu?) Some areas that had been seas, such as the Gobi Desert, were drained of their waters and would become desolate wastelands.

The remnant's incredible gravitational pull literally swung Earth around and tilted its axis from vertical to the current 23.4°; it also exerted a tremendous pull on the Earth's seas---sort of like the lunar tidal system we all know, but unbelievably more powerful---the oceans were pulled towards the remnant until they reached a state of being "heaped". While all this was going on, Kingu, Tiamat's moon, became caught in Earth's gravitational pull as the remnant passed by on Earth's opposite side. Kingu slammed up against Earth's Roche Zone, exploded, and disintegrated. Huge flaming chunks of Kingu rained down on the planet, creating literal "rains" of meteors---gravel, boulders, dust, hydrocarbons, and huge quantities of ice, all of which hit the Earth, leaving craters behind such as the Carolina Bays, the ostensible craters at the bottom of Hudson Bay and Lake Michigan, and various other areas around the world. These flaming missiles, along with Earth-oriented volcanism and the hydrocarbon content from Tiamat and Kingu, started a huge worldwide conflagration, attested to in multitudinous accounts.

The remnant now broke its contact with Earth, and pulled free of gravitational influence; it sailed past Venus, slowing Venus' orbit and flipping the planet completely upside-down, so that it is now the only planet in the system that orbits right-to-left instead of left-to-right. It apparently missed Mercury completely, went on into the Sun, and was destroyed. On Earth, however, things went from bad to worse. Once the gravitational pull of the remnant was broken, the "heaped-up" seas were released, and they literally sloshed across the continents, seeking new basins. Many accounts describe this activity as an "approaching wall (or mountain) of water". As might be expected, whatever was in the way of these titanic waves was washed away.

Scattered small groups of humans survived, either by being aboard boats or other objects that might float, or by being sealed up in caves at the tops of high mountains. The Navajo Indians relate an ancient account of a small band of survivors who dug their way out of a cave, and found themselves on the side of a mountain, surrounded by water. After several weeks, the water dissipated, leaving behind a sea of deep mud, which eventually dried out, leaving a thick layer of salt over everything. On the other side of the world, a Babylonian epic tells how people had to eat "couch-grass" for upwards of a year; there was no other food. The second year they suffered from skin conditions caused by malnutrition, and went about with "the itch".

The heavier objects such as gravel and metal and boulders, etc., already having fallen, the lighter elements, such as water, that had entered the Earth's atmosphere, began falling. Numerous accounts relate heavy rainfalls that lasted from six to eight weeks, which probably consisted of billions of tons of water from Tiamat and Kingu that fell to Earth and added to the already considerable amount of water that had been here to start with. There was a heavy fog that lasted months, and heavy, dark clouds that lasted years. Numerous accounts describe that the "sky had collapsed". All in all, Earth experienced something very similar to a nuclear winter---it was dark, cold, with scarce food, and very windy, wet conditions, all of which lasted for upwards of twenty-five years. Gradually, however, things improved, the sky cleared up, plants started growing again, and animals began to multiply---provided that they hadn't been wiped out in the Deluge, such as huge numbers of so-called "Pleistocene mammals" like mastodons and woolly mammoths.

And man? Man had to do the best he could; his world had been nearly destroyed, and any cities or objects he had built or constructed had been washed away, burned up, or sunk. He was left with making hunting spears out of rocks and wearing the skins of animals he killed, because that's literally all he had. The "Stone Age" had arrived.

Now is a lot of this pure speculation? Of course it is----but no more than the usual accounts of early prehistory according to The Standard Template®™ are likewise pure speculation. Again: it is just as plausible as the stories they teach us all in public schools about "Early Man" and Lyellian uniformitarianism; all it requires is that you think outside the box.

And now, I am really finished, and I will officially retire. For those who may be interested, I have already given you the title of one book; there are others if you look. For those of you who label everything "pseudoscience" if it happens to disagree with your preconceived viewpoints, I'm sure this post will give you ample material to malign my mental stability, my obvious gullibility, my dubious ancestry, and various other means to reveal to the world what an obvious drooling imbecile I am for even entertaining such nonsense. As I said: I have been through this before.

Have fun, and now, I really am finished here. For those of you who may have found something useful or intriguing to take away from this, please know that the only reason I spent several hours typing this all out was purely for your benefit; I hope you appreciate it. :) God bless all here.
 
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ladavid52

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Joining the party late but a few things to consider.

1. There is enough water to fill up the earth, there is proof if this you can dig up.

2. I live right outside San Francisco and I remember reading about a year ago about whale bones being found in the Santa Cruz Mountains. How did they get there?

There are a lot of people who try to disprove the Bible, but the Bible is God's word and it true. Good luck!
 
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JackRT

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Joining the party late but a few things to consider.

1. There is enough water to fill up the earth, there is proof if this you can dig up.

2. I live right outside San Francisco and I remember reading about a year ago about whale bones being found in the Santa Cruz Mountains. How did they get there?

There are a lot of people who try to disprove the Bible, but the Bible is God's word and it true. Good luck!

The earth is a geologically active planet. Volcanoes and earthquakes are caused by plate tectonics. You might want to google that term and learn a little about the behaviour of this planet over time.
 
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ladavid52

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The earth is a geologically active planet. Volcanoes and earthquakes are caused by plate tectonics. You might want to google that term and learn a little about the behaviour of this planet over time.

That's a reasonable theory and just like Flooding vs. Plate Tectonics both are probable to happening. A quick Google search on the topic also brings up 80 whale skeletons found almost found preserved perfectly in the in the Atacama Desert (13,000 feet above sea level). In this case scientists confirmed it had to have been under water and plate tectonics cannot be used to theorize how they wound up in mountains.
 
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JackRT

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In this case scientists confirmed it had to have been under water and plate tectonics cannot be used to theorize how they wound up in mountains.

I fail to understand why plate tectonics doesn't work here.
 
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ladavid52

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I fail to understand why plate tectonics doesn't work here.
The whales all died the same way (tops facing up) in a large flat desert. Generally plate tectonics will push land up. However this land was flat and a desert at an altitude of 13k feet. The theory is that they were trapped when water receded and perished.
 
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JackRT

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The whales all died the same way (tops facing up) in a large flat desert. Generally plate tectonics will push land up. However this land was flat and a desert at an altitude of 13k feet. The theory is that they were trapped when water receded and perished.

Subduction could have this effect.
 
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pat34lee

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Please check with any geology department/professor at any University. If you like, ask first if they are Christian, and only ask Christian professors. The answer will be the same.

If you know any, I have a question for them.

Did God lie in Genesis 8:21? If the flood was local, and not global, he did. Local floods happen all the time, and people and animals die in them.

"and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."
 
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Aman777

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If you know any, I have a question for them.

Did God lie in Genesis 8:21? If the flood was local, and not global, he did. Local floods happen all the time, and people and animals die in them.

Noah's flood totally destroyed Adam's entire world/kosmos.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Grk-kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Grk-destroyed totally)

The solid boundary or firmament of Adam's entire world sank in the mountains of Ararat 11k years ago. Gen 8:4 Noah's flood totally destroyed Adam's world but NOT the world WHICH IS NOW. 2Pe 3:7 God's Word is the Truth in every way.
 
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Gospel_van

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Noah's flood totally destroyed Adam's entire world/kosmos.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Grk-kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Grk-destroyed totally)

The solid boundary or firmament of Adam's entire world sank in the mountains of Ararat 11k years ago. Gen 8:4 Noah's flood totally destroyed Adam's world but NOT the world WHICH IS NOW. 2Pe 3:7 God's Word is the Truth in every way.
Hw here does you 11k Number come from?
 
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pat34lee

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Noah's flood totally destroyed Adam's entire world/kosmos.
The solid boundary or firmament of Adam's entire world sank in the mountains of Ararat 11k years ago. Gen 8:4 Noah's flood totally destroyed Adam's world but NOT the world WHICH IS NOW. 2Pe 3:7 God's Word is the Truth in every way.

Not only does that limit the world to one area, but 'all animals' to those in one region. And as I said, animals in flood regions die right up to today. So either it is more than local or he lied every time a flood destroyed another area and killed a bunch of animals and people.
 
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mindlight

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Here are some arguments against the Flood, which I'm looking for counterarguments for.

GM: The Talk.Origins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy
talkorigins.org/faqs/geocolumn

(1)Sedimentation Rate & Orbital Cycles
- The Cretaceous Carlile shale consists of sands and shales. Fourier analysis of the Niobrara laminations reveals that they vary in thickness according to the periodicities of the earth's long-term orbital cycles (Fischer, 1993, p. 263-295).

(2)Multi-Year-Old Organism Fossils (Oncolite Algae Growth)
- There are also oncolites, an algal growth on shells after the animals die which took time to grow (Wardlaw and Reinson, 1971, p. 1762). An excellent example of an oncolite is shown in figure 58 of Dean and Fouch (1983, p. 123). It says: "Cross section of an oncolite developed around a gastropod-shell nucleus from Ore Lake, Michigan. Concentric layering is the result of annual couplets of porous and dense laminae.)

Multi-Year-Old Coccolith Growth
- The Greenhorn limestone is made mostly of coccoliths, small skeletal remains approximately 3-5 micrometers in diameter about 40 ft thick, 16 ledge-forming, burrowed limestone beds separated by thin shales. The coccoliths had to grow in the water, then die and fall to the bottom; then organisms had to burrow into the sediment; then when coccoliths were not as productive, shale was deposited, separating the limestone beds, all requiring still water.

Multi-Year-Old Stromatolites
- The Duperow formation has stromatolites (limestone rocks deposited by daily increments of limestone from algae on a shallow (less than 30 feet) sea bottom (Burke, 1982, p. 554; Altschuld and Kerr, 1983, p. 104).

(3)No Fossil Organisms Like Today's
- The upper Jurassic Continental Morrison formation has footprints (Stokes, 1957, p. 952-954), fossil soil profiles (Mantzios, 1989, p. 1166), mammals, plants, some coal (Brown, 1946, p 238-248) huge dinosaurs and smaller ones. The animals and plants are different from anything alive today.

(4)Dolomite Overheating
- 1300 feet of Bighorn Dolomite can not be Great Flood deposits because each gram of carbonate gives off about 1207 kilocalories per mole (Whittier et al, 1992, p. 576). To deposit these beds in one year requires that the energy emitted by each meter squared would be 278 times that received by the sun.

(5)Delicate Fossils
- There are also abundant fecal pellets and feeding traces (Hattin, 1971, p. 412-431; Savrda and Bottjer, 1993, p. 263-295).

(6)Too Much Bioclastic Limestone
- The lower part of the Devonian formations consist of bioclastic limestone, and the upper part interbedded carbonate with anhydrite.

Too Many Crinoids
- The Mississippian Madison group largely consists of dead crinoid parts. (Clark and Stearn, 1960, pp. 86-88): The upper Mission Canyon formation or the Livingstone formation (of Alberta) is a massive limestone formation composed of sand-sized particles of calcium carbonate, fragments of crinoid plates, and shells broken by the waves. The Madison sea must have been shallow, and the waves and currents strong, to break the shells and plates of the animals when they died. The sorting of the calcite grains and the cross-bedding are additional evidence of waves and currents at work. The Livingstone limestone may be calculated to represent at least 10,000 cubic miles of broken crinoid plates, enough crinoids to cover the entire earth to a depth of 3 inches, but only a small part of a vast Mississippian crinoid bed that almost does cover the world (Morton, 1984, p. 26-27), U.S., Canada, England, Belgium, European Russia, Egypt, Libya, central Asia, and Australia.

(7)Non-Flood Sorting of Sediments & Fossils
- The geologic column is not sorted by ecological zones. The Silurian Interlake, Devonian Prairie, Pennsylvanian Minnelusa and Jurassic Morisson formations are continental deposits. Oceanic deposits sandwich these beds. The ocean came and went many times.

- The Paleozoic corals belong to one of three groups - only one of which is found in Mesozoic rocks; the other two became extinct at the end of the Paleozoic. The four-sided corals are only found in the Paleozoic. Modern corals of the 6-sided or 8-sided kind are not found until the Triassic.

- Permian pollen is found in the salt; modern pollen is not found (Wilgus and Holser, 1984, p. 765,766).

- The Pierre shale has marine reptile bones concentrated in the Sharon Springs member, not sorted as Morris would assume by ecological zonation.

- Third, the geologic column is not divided by hydrodynamic sorting.

- Fossil mammals are not found with the earliest dinosaurs & no primates are found until the Ft. Union formation or that no full dinosaur skeletons are found in the Tertiary section, implies strongly that the column was not the result of a single cataclysm. Worldwide, no whales are found with the large Devonian fish. If the column was an ecological burial pattern, then whales and porpoises should be buried with the fish.

I do not think it is possible to argue a scientific case for a supernatural event without analogy with modern naturally occurring processes.

The description of the flood is of a seismic shaking of the earth which released enough waters from the deep and the skies to completely flood the earth and reconfigure its landscapes. The energy required by such seismic changes might not be explicable according to uniformitarian and naturalistic assumptions at all. Geothermal and asteroid activity , sun flares etc might all be natural processes which God used to inject extra energy into the system. But even without such naturalistic explanations if God stirred the oceans then a lack of energy, orbital cycles or seasonal cycles cannot be used as an argument against the evidence we can read today. The reason being that such a supernatural stirring could vastly accelerate such siftings and sortings and result in patterns that only have the appearance of age because we assume a lack of supernatural intervention. The Bible is clear the flood was a supernatural intervention so no Christian can necessarily trust a naturalistic model to reveal reliable results in this case.

The ways in which your list of questions was formed was by observing what we see today and hypothesising on the basis of rates of observable change today that these patterns and processes required much more time than a flood event would allow for. But what scientific experiments exist which can account for the unobserved features of a truly unique, global and supernatural event. If there is no experiment you can do to demonstrate the interpretations you hold then it is not really science but rather analogous speculation on the basis of repeatable experiments. For many modern geologists there is no difference between this and true science but actually it is the difference between knowing and guessing and the reason that the flood is out of scope for scientific analysis.

The question about hydrodynamic sorting implies that waters were not being injected from below as well as from above. What models exist to plot the patterns of sorting that would result when such chaos persisted in the oceans over 100s of days and with divine intervention to boot. Basically the fossil landed where God intended and not in accordance with the patterns our inadequate models would predict today.

Also the thorough reconfiguration of the earth of the preflood world means that the patterns and vibrancy of that world are forever lost to us. This is not just in terms of the lost advantages of a superior and richer ecosystem where things grew faster but in terms of the knowledge we can claim to have of that preflood world. We cannot compare what we see now with what we had when the original has been so thoroughly destroyed. So lost species, lost possibilities, lost balances etc. may well explain the inexplicable patterns we can recover from the chaos of the flood.

This will not help you write a scientific paper but I hope it shows that the endeavour itself is a flawed undertaking. It is easier to question the assumptions of the arrogant than to prove what cannot be proven by their methods.
 
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Aman777

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Hw here does you 11k Number come from?

Genesis 8:4 tells us the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat, 5 months after the flood began. This agrees with History which shows that the FIRST Human traits, ie. farming, city building, etc. FIRST appeared just SW of Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat, some 11,000 years ago in Northern Mesopotamia. Humans did NOT evolve from Apes, but instead arrived on our Earth in the Ark exactly as God told us. History and Scripture AGREE but the false ToE does not.
 
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Aman777

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Not only does that limit the world to one area, but 'all animals' to those in one region. And as I said, animals in flood regions die right up to today. So either it is more than local or he lied every time a flood destroyed another area and killed a bunch of animals and people.

Adam's entire firmament, which God called Heaven, Gen 1:8 was totally destroyed in the flood. ll Peter 3:6 The solid firmament sank in Lake Van, killing ALL breathing creatures on his small world. As the firmament sank, it released the covered Ark into the Lake and brought Humanity (Adam's descendants) to this world of Apes, which is in the Heavens and Earth which are now. ll Peter 3:7
 
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Aman777

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I do not think it is possible to argue a scientific case for a supernatural event without analogy with modern naturally occurring processes.

1. Adam's world/firmament/Heaven was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8
2. The present HeavenS were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4
3. Today is the 6th Day/Age. Gen 1:27

Adam was made the 3rd Day BEFORE the plants herbs and rain. Gen 2:4-7 Adam's descendants came to our Earth 11k years ago and brought his superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 to this planet of evolved apes, who were NOT Humans (descendants of Adam). That's God's Truth scientifically, historically and scripturally which NO man can refute.
 
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Gospel_van

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Genesis 8:4 tells us the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat, 5 months after the flood began. This agrees with History which shows that the FIRST Human traits, ie. farming, city building, etc. FIRST appeared just SW of Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat, some 11,000 years ago in Northern Mesopotamia. Humans did NOT evolve from Apes, but instead arrived on our Earth in the Ark exactly as God told us. History and Scripture AGREE but the false ToE does not.
I get that. But where does the number 11,000 come from? The reason I ask is because biblical chronology puts the flood date to be around 4400 years ago. I'm curious to how you got 11k?
Thanks
 
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joshua 1 9

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Great Flood was real
One belief is that Noah's flood took place when the Strait of Hormuz gave away and the area that is now the Persian Gulf became flooded. In ancient times this was an area known for Pearls. Perhaps this is where the expression Pearls of Wisdom comes from. This theory is based on using Satellite photos from sources like Google Earth to see where the four rivers came together.

Noah's flood is a Shadow and a Type of the Word wide flood that took place around 200 million years ago when Pangea broke up due to Plate Tectonics. This is why we are told: "on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened." Genesis 7:11
 
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