Help me do a scientific paper on the Great Flood.

JackRT

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There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 25 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 5600 BC due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.
 
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Armoured

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Will a picture do? The world's largest land spirals are found in the northern section of Lake Van. Go here and tell us what causes these miles wide land spirals.

It runs about 30 seconds.
So there's a land spiral. How is that "empirically testable as Adams firmament that proves the Flood"?
 
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Armoured

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There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 25 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 5600 BC due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.
Folk memory of Black Sea Inundation event is my preferred candidate, but Red Sea Inundation or even "really really unusuall big flood in Mesopotamia" are credible contenders
 
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Ken Behrens

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The total destruction of Adam's first Heaven happened 11k years ago in Lake Van, Turkey in the mountains of Ararat exactly as Scripture details. As Adam's firmament sank into the Lake, it released the Ark into our world. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE
I have heard a related story, but without a date. But this is not anything in my research. Is there a reason you piggy-backed it on to my post?
 
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Martinius

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The difference between my view and all the others is that my view AGREES in every way with every discovery of mankind, scientifically and historically. Faith plus Facts equals God's One Truth.
Then, based on what you are saying, you agree that the earth is billions of years old and that no worldwide flood occurred. Great, end of thread.
 
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Aman777

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Then, based on what you are saying, you agree that the earth is billions of years old and that no worldwide flood occurred. Great, end of thread.

The worldwide flood destroyed Adam's world which was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 The present world was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 along with the 3rd Heaven of ll Cor 12:2 and Rev 21:1.

As Adam's entire solid firmament/Heaven sank into Lake Van, Turkey, the covered Ark was released into our world (the present 2nd Heaven)... EXACTLY as God told us AND which AGREES with Science and History.
 
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Aman777

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So there's a land spiral. How is that "empirically testable as Adams firmament that proves the Flood"?

Adam's solid firmament or boundary of his entire world sank when the windows, on top of the firmament were opened. Isa 24:19 The bottom half of Adam's solid firmament is under the largest land spirals in the world.

Lake Van changes depth regularly and the land spirals are like bathtub rings revealing Adam's miles wide firmament, beneath them. Since the firmament was made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 it is evidence of life before the beginning of our Cosmos on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 It's of enormous size and worth it's weight in Gold. Someone should tell a TV evangelist.
 
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Aman777

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There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 25 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 5600 BC due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.

Doesn't agree with Scripture nor History. Scripture shows that Adam's entire world/Heaven was totally destroyed in the flood. ll Peter 3:6 It's the SNARE or trap God laid to catch today's believers in evolution since the ToE does NOT show where Humans (Adam's descendants) had our origin. This is important since Humans were made to have dominion or rule over EVERY other living creature when Jesus returns. Gen 1:28 We did NOT evolve from ANY other creature since Adam was FIRST made Gen 2:4-7 before plants herbs and trees.
 
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Martinius

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The worldwide flood destroyed Adam's world which was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 The present world was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 along with the 3rd Heaven of ll Cor 12:2 and Rev 21:1.

As Adam's entire solid firmament/Heaven sank into Lake Van, Turkey, the covered Ark was released into our world (the present 2nd Heaven)... EXACTLY as God told us AND which AGREES with Science and History.
No, No, and No. But you can believe whatever you like.

One thing that has always amazed me is that there were "days" (one rotation of the earth on its axis) before there was an earth.
 
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Aman777

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No, No, and No. But you can believe whatever you like.

One thing that has always amazed me is that there were "days" (one rotation of the earth on its axis) before there was an earth.

You have confused God's Days (Hebrew-yowm-period of time) with man's days. Yowm is used in Scripture to mean 12 hours, 24 hours, a lifetime, and forever. God has but 7 Days or Ages and each is some 4.5 Billion years in man's time. Since the 7th Day/Age is eternity, we live today at Gen 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image or in Christ Spiritually. This will continue until Jesus returns to this Earth in Gen 1:28 to give Humans dominion or rule over every other living creature.
 
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Martinius

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You have confused God's Days (Hebrew-yowm-period of time) with man's days. Yowm is used in Scripture to mean 12 hours, 24 hours, a lifetime, and forever. God has but 7 Days or Ages and each is some 4.5 Billion years in man's time. Since the 7th Day/Age is eternity, we live today at Gen 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image or in Christ Spiritually. This will continue until Jesus returns to this Earth in Gen 1:28 to give Humans dominion or rule over every other living creature.
Thanks for the explanation. I am thinking that Jesus better return soon, before humans kill off more species and the earth is made uninhabitable. But I guess God could restore it. And man having dominion over all other life is really scary to me, considering the poor job we have made of it so far.
 
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John 1720

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I'm working with the author of NewGeology.us to write a scientific paper proving that the Great Flood was real. He suggests that the flood occurred about 10,000 years ago, but he's open to other datings, if the evidence shows it. And I think it definitely does. The evidence I've read suggests the flood occurred around 4400 BP. I like a lot of the info in John Baumgardner's paper on Noah's Flood ..., as well as the NewGeology site info. Some of Walter Brown's info at CreationScience.com seems helpful too. I'm also gleaning good info from Creation.com and others. E.g., I found out lately that the world's salt deposits likely were extruded as magma, instead of being evaporated from oceans of seawater.

I'd like to have help listing the main arguments against a recent dating of the flood and finding good evidence against those arguments.
Mideast
Evidence for a Flood | Science | Smithsonian
Grand Canyon
 
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Ken Behrens

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Sure, since your view does not agree with Science, History nor Scripture.
I invited the OP to browse my work and see if anything was helpful to him. I am not here for a debate. Start another thread if you like, once you have digested what I posted.
 
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Martinius

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I'm working with the author of NewGeology.us to write a scientific paper proving that the Great Flood was real. He suggests that the flood occurred about 10,000 years ago, but he's open to other datings, if the evidence shows it. And I think it definitely does. The evidence I've read suggests the flood occurred around 4400 BP. I like a lot of the info in John Baumgardner's paper on Noah's Flood ..., as well as the NewGeology site info. Some of Walter Brown's info at CreationScience.com seems helpful too. I'm also gleaning good info from Creation.com and others. E.g., I found out lately that the world's salt deposits likely were extruded as magma, instead of being evaporated from oceans of seawater.

I'd like to have help listing the main arguments against a recent dating of the flood and finding good evidence against those arguments.
There is no geological evidence of a worldwide flood either recently or in the distant past. There have been local floods -- it is thought that the Noah story is a legend based on a local flood.

Stay away from Creationist sites. They do really bad science, and don't use scientists with their doctorates in the relevant fields.

Do yourself a favor and don't make any decisions before you google "rebuttals against Noah's flood arguments" and read some of the websites.
 
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Open Heart

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Thanks for the explanation. I am thinking that Jesus better return soon, before humans kill off more species and the earth is made uninhabitable. But I guess God could restore it. And man having dominion over all other life is really scary to me, considering the poor job we have made of it so far.
I'm thinking God will probably NOT return, forcing us to live in the hell we've made for ourselves, so that we'll at last learn how to properly have dominion as a benevolent king than as a tyrannical dictator.
 
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buzuxi02

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If you view the flood as a regional deluge (flooding of the 'known world. Which at the time would compromise the middle east and the mediterenaen world) and you place the date anywhere between 4500bc to 2000bc. You can use a flood theory as the reason for the Back into Africa theory. Basically a huge one-off migration back into africa due to some thing (possibly agricultural) that forced a large portion of the Eurasian population to move deep back into africa:

Back to Africa: Ancient Human Genome Reveals Widespread Eurasian Mix | Science | Smithsonian
 
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Aman777

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Thanks for the explanation. I am thinking that Jesus better return soon, before humans kill off more species and the earth is made uninhabitable. But I guess God could restore it. And man having dominion over all other life is really scary to me, considering the poor job we have made of it so far.

When Jesus returns, it will be to keep mankind from going extinct:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should NO flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Humans will already have received our perfect bodies, like those of Adam before the fall, BEFORE we are given dominion or rule over EVERY other living creature Gen 1:28 including Angels. 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?
 
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Aman777

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If you view the flood as a regional deluge (flooding of the 'known world. Which at the time would compromise the middle east and the mediterenaen world) and you place the date anywhere between 4500bc to 2000bc. You can use a flood theory as the reason for the Back into Africa theory. Basically a huge one-off migration back into africa due to some thing (possibly agricultural) that forced a large portion of the Eurasian population to move deep back into africa:

Back to Africa: Ancient Human Genome Reveals Widespread Eurasian Mix | Science | Smithsonian

Secular History agrees with Genesis 8:4, which shows that the Ark arrived in the mountains of Ararat some 11k years ago. This is confirmed by the Fact that the first Human cities were built there. Humans are NOT an evolved ape nor of any other living creature, since Adam was made long BEFORE L.U.C.A. appeared in the water of our Earth, some 3.8 billion years ago. You have confused the sons of God (prehistoric people) with Humans (Adam's descendants).
 
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