Hell is not separation from God

Cockcrow

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One of the cringiest things I hear a “Christian” say today is that Hell is “Separation from God” People just mindlessly repeat this completely unbiblical lie. Revelation 14:10 “he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:” There is no separation from God in Hell, Hell is God pouring out his wrath for all eternity, it isn’t some place of “separation from God” No you’re on fire!

The wicked in this world want separation from God, they hate God, Atheists and reprobates openly admit to looking forward to being one time annihilated that’s it no more God, just get burned up once and separated from God for eternity, no consequences for all of their wicked actions in this life none of it matters. No, that wouldn’t be a righteous punishment, the punishment for the wicked and unbelievers is when the God they mocked, blasphemed, insulted, pours out his full wrath on them for eternity in the presence of the lamb who they rejected, denied, scoffed at, and fully hated in their heart. Righteous everlasting conscious torment in the presence of the angels and the lamb with no end, no hope, no let up is the righteous punishment for these people, you’re always on fire for eternity with no hope of it ever ending. That’s what God's word teaches.

“Oh separation from God that’s the worst torment of them all, I can take all the other punishments but separation from God is the worst!” wrong! God pouring out his wrath on the wicked for all eternity is the worst punishment. being on fire with no hope is the worst punishment, you won’t be thinking about “separation from God” you will be in flames, and this is a man-made doctrine with no biblical basis, and takes verses out of context, twists the meaning and falsely says that the dead burn up one time and that’s it.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 is the verse used for this false doctrine And this is the verse that they will falsely hit you with, I have been hit with this verse multiple times by anti-Hell people. except that verse doesn’t teach separation, here 2 Thess 1:9 “Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” this verse is saying that they will be destroyed from the presence of the Lord. as we see in Revelation 15:8 "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." Is this verse saying away from? Or separated from? No! it says that the glory is coming from The Lord. So we can see that 2 Thess 1:9 says “from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” it is talking about the source of where the destruction is coming from or where the smoke is coming from in the other verse.

Hell was created by God Isaiah 30:33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.” So we see that it is the Lord's breath that kindles the fire of Hell, Tophet in this verse means Hell.

Psalms 139:8 "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

God created all things (Colossians 1:16) Satan didn’t create the real place called Hell, Hell didn’t magically come into existence, God created it as a place of everlasting punishment for those that reject and believe not the Son, and people choose not to believe in him, that is the purpose of hell it is punishment, not separation, Hell is not an eternal timeout. Bible says Hell is a place of Fire and Brimstone, Weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, worm dieth not, tormented, hellfire, no rest day or night, not “separation”. Using a Bible that removes the word Hell doesn’t change the reality that Hell is a place that exists in the heart of the Earth and the wicked will go there for everlasting punishment. It is impossible to escape the doctrine of hell in the old and New Testament hell is clearly described.

Now here is something else they falsely hit you with 2 Thessalonians 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:” when that verse says “obey” well that means we must work our way to heaven. But this is false, the Gospel means good news, that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again as taught in 1 Corinthians 15 the only way to obey that is to believe that, you can’t obey what Jesus already accomplished but you can believe in it. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved Acts 16:31. You don’t obey this command by living a good life, turning from all your sins, and doing good works, no you obey it by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. The next verse 2 Thessalonians 1:10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.” Notice it says all them that believe, not those who repented of all their sins, live a good life.

To obey the gospel means those that believe, it is not teaching a works salvation. Those that believe will be on the right side, and those that believe not will face everlasting destruction. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

False people will also take these verses which mention words like perish, death, destroyed, etc. to mean that there will be annihilation and that there is no hell, but this is not what the Bible is talking about at all. To perish, or be destroyed means to be in Hell, the Bible teaches that they are dead but still conscious, the “second death” referred to in the Bible in no way means or supports annihilation theory. the Bible does not teach annihilation, that is a doctrine that cults, Atheists, and evolutionists teach and believe in, that we are just evolved animals and when we die that’s it, we cease to exist with no God.

the Bible teaches that Jesus after dying went to hell for three days and three nights then was resurrected and that he now holds the keys of hell and of death, he wasn’t annihilated! if Hell is a place of annihilation then there is no way Jesus could have returned! Jesus would not have warned so many times about Hell, everlasting punishment if it is just someplace where you go to be annihilated, or if it doesn’t exist at all.

Gods law is perfect, Gods word is perfect, the Bible is his word, it is foolish for anybody to be against Hell because “Well I just don’t think a loving God would do that” but his word says that Hell is real, God says that this is the punishment for the wicked, God is perfectly loving just all those things, what you believe is irrelevant to the reality of the situation.

“Well Jesus is nice, he isn’t like that” that same Jesus who taught to love thy neighbor, love your enemies in that same sermon said Hellfire (Matthew 5:22) People choose which verses to believe, which verses to put on a bumper sticker and take out of context and use, they choose which verses to throw at someone to push their false works salvation gospel. They make up another Jesus, another God, the one they made up in their mind, it feels better to them, not the God that is revealed in the Holy scriptures. God is real, Hell is real, it is a horrible place of everlasting destruction, torment, scary place, it isn’t a separation from God.
 

Gregory Thompson

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One of the cringiest things I hear a “Christian” say today is that Hell is “Separation from God”
It's a fringe belief that contradicts scriptures claims about God.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

When belief in it is strong in a congregation however, it creates a spiritual atmosphere that separates people from the love of God.
 
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Unless it simply means separation from his LOVE and his Blessings, when you aren't under the LORDS love and Blessings your under his wrath.
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Gregory Thompson
Your bible may be missing some pages, see scripture in above post.
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timothyu

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We are separated from God in this world already by constant rejection of His will. The Lake of Fire so many call hell merely burns up the chaff for unlike the angels who will be there, we never had eternal life. That is reserved for those of the Kingdom, the chaff having been removed.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The lake of fire is God. It is like the story of the servants in Daniel's time thrown into the furnace. it was so hot, that the people who threw them in there died. However, the son of God appeared in the fire, and the servants were not harmed.

Because those born again by the Holy Spirit are able to commune with God, they are not harmed by the consuming fire that God is when His omnipresence manifests like the mountain Moses met God on everywhere.

However, those who are like the grumbling hebrews in the wilderness, cannot approach the fire, or they die ... However, there is only one reality at that point since the old one was melted down. So being cast into the new world, where God is all and in all, causes them to burn. So it is called the "second" death, since they cannot live within God's presence.
 
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Gregorikos

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Well it does include separation from God, but that is only part of it.

For it is indeed just of God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to the afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes to be glorified by his saints and to be marveled at on that day among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. (NRSV) 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Eastern Churches have always confessed that hell isn't a separation from God, but a particular experience of God's Presence. "Heaven" and "Hell" are different places, but rather two distinct realities of how one experiences God's loving Presence. This can be seen, for example, in the writings of St. Isaac the Syrian who says that for the redeemed, to be in the presence of God and to be surrounded by His love is incomprehensible joy; that same love, as experienced by the wicked, is utter torment. Isaac compares the torment of hell with the torment of bitter regret and remorse, such as when we betray a close friend. Thus the torment of hell is not that God puts sinners in an eternal torture chamber as though God were a sadistic tyrant. But instead, the sinner is instead in the hands of a loving God whom they hate, they are in the hands of a loving God whose mercy they reject.

Consider St. Paul's words to the Romans in Romans 12, he calls upon the Faithful to love and feed their enemies, "for by doing so you heap burning coals upon their heads". How strange is this comment that Paul makes, but it makes complete sense: When you treat someone who hates you with love and kindness, they are left with nothing but their own hate and no excuse for it. God loves us, He has declared His love for the world from Mt. Calvary where He loves each and every sinner to literal death, the death of His only-begotten Son. God's mercies are uncountable and infinite, His grace is without limit, and His love comes without condition: He loves because He is love.

To be loved and treated kindly, when you hate the one who loves you and is kind to you, embitters the soul. We are sinners, and we want so badly to hate, so badly to be angry; but God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son. But without the change that comes from Christ, we remain embittered and at enmity against God, inflamed by our passions, tormented by our own wickedness--and it will destroy us. It will destroy us without the divine rescue that comes from the God of all love who bears down upon the world through Christ to rescue it from the tyranny of sin, death, and the devil.

God is not a tyrant. But we are tyrants, we are petty little tyrants who want our own fiefdoms to reign over.

So St. John in his Apocalypse writes that there is a lake burning with sulfur and fire, a second death--a death beyond death; something so violently antithetical to life that it boggles the imagination.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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FineLinen

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Everything you describe about Hell is what you and I deserve. We deserve that fire and punishment because of our sin. If Jesus had not died on the Cross for us, we would be going there.

Nonsense 101! !

There are four hells, all of which are swallowed up in the conquering Lord of restoration. The big gulp is the process of consuming death and hell (s) into Himself.

No more death, no more hell, no more separation!
 
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Saint Steven

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The wicked in this world want separation from God, they hate God, Atheists and reprobates openly admit to looking forward to being one time annihilated that’s it no more God, just get burned up once and separated from God for eternity, no consequences for all of their wicked actions in this life none of it matters. No, that wouldn’t be a righteous punishment, the punishment for the wicked and unbelievers is when the God they mocked, blasphemed, insulted, pours out his full wrath on them for eternity in the presence of the lamb who they rejected, denied, scoffed at, and fully hated in their heart. Righteous everlasting conscious torment in the presence of the angels and the lamb with no end, no hope, no let up is the righteous punishment for these people, you’re always on fire for eternity with no hope of it ever ending. That’s what God's word teaches.
Speaking of mindless repetition... ???

Do you really think God will spend eternity tormenting his "enemies"?
The same God that expects us to love our enemies?
We make God out to be something worse than a pagan or tax collector. (traitor)

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
 
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Saint Steven

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Everything you describe about Hell is what you and I deserve. We deserve that fire and punishment because of our sin. If Jesus had not died on the Cross for us, we would be going there.
So... you think an eternal punishment fits a finite "crime"?
Where's the justice in that? Even humans aren't that sadistic.
Who created "hell"?
 
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Saint Steven

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We are separated from God in this world already by constant rejection of His will. The Lake of Fire so many call hell merely burns up the chaff for unlike the angels who will be there, we never had eternal life. That is reserved for those of the Kingdom, the chaff having been removed.
Really?
What can separate us from the love of God?

Romans 8:38-39 NIV
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Saint Steven

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So St. John in his Apocalypse writes that there is a lake burning with sulfur and fire, a second death--a death beyond death; something so violently antithetical to life that it boggles the imagination.
Brought to you by our loving heavenly Father? That's what boggles the imagination.
But at least, that means the concept is in the realm of imagination.

A rather "Grimm" fairy-tale.
 
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Saint Steven

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To be loved and treated kindly, when you hate the one who loves you and is kind to you, embitters the soul. We are sinners, and we want so badly to hate, so badly to be angry; but God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son.
It seems to comfort us to blame the victims.
 
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Brought to you by our loving heavenly Father? That's what boggles the imagination.
But at least, that means the concept is in the realm of imagination.

A rather "Grimm" fairy-tale.

We worship a God of life, who has no desire nor will to see anything in His creation lost. The second death isn't brought about by God; but by us. We are the architects of our own destruction. And I don't mean, necessarily, simply in the sense of action-and-consequence; but in the sense of someone who would sooner jump off a cliff than be loved. That's what boggles the imagination; that we would hate Him who is love so much that we would prefer death rather than life, pain rather than healing, regret rather than forgiveness. But if we are honest, we see exactly these things here and now--and in ourselves.

I think Lewis was right when he wrote that it's not about God sending anyone to hell; but instead that there is something in us that will become hell unless it is nipped in the bud.

If we are honest with ourselves, if we are honest about our deep dysfunction, then we honestly recognize that there is a tragic brokenness that needs healing. The heart is, says the Prophet Jeremiah, is deceitful and desperately sick--so much so that it is baffling. That is why the second death is baffling, because in each and every one of us is a heart that is incredibly ill and beyond reason.

God came into our midst, and our collective response as human beings was to nail Him to a cross. We do that with mere men all the time. History is replete with the evidence of this. This is a world in which Hitlers are loved and rise to power and Martin Luther Kings are feared and assassinated. So it should be no wonder then when the Incarnate Deity steps down to walk among us that we should find Him the most repugnant of all. The beauty and scandal of the Gospel is that it was our violent rejection of Him that became the instrument of His love and our salvation; and that He has overcome all of it by rising from the dead, for us, for our sake. Doing it for the very ones who despise and hate Him.

What does it look like when God loves everyone, and everyone unconditionally, and He shows no favoritism or partiality; but we ourselves close ourselves up in our own dungeons, festering in the misery of our own hatred, bitterness, and regret, refusing forgiveness and refusing healing? St. John saw it as a lake burning with fire, and called it a second death. For the only thing more bitter than death, is to be buried under tons of remorse and bitterness and pointless seething rage.

That's not something God does. That's something God is rescuing us from: ourselves.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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eleos1954

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One of the cringiest things I hear a “Christian” say today is that Hell is “Separation from God” People just mindlessly repeat this completely unbiblical lie. Revelation 14:10 “he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:” There is no separation from God in Hell, Hell is God pouring out his wrath for all eternity, it isn’t some place of “separation from God” No you’re on fire!

The wicked in this world want separation from God, they hate God, Atheists and reprobates openly admit to looking forward to being one time annihilated that’s it no more God, just get burned up once and separated from God for eternity, no consequences for all of their wicked actions in this life none of it matters. No, that wouldn’t be a righteous punishment, the punishment for the wicked and unbelievers is when the God they mocked, blasphemed, insulted, pours out his full wrath on them for eternity in the presence of the lamb who they rejected, denied, scoffed at, and fully hated in their heart. Righteous everlasting conscious torment in the presence of the angels and the lamb with no end, no hope, no let up is the righteous punishment for these people, you’re always on fire for eternity with no hope of it ever ending. That’s what God's word teaches.

“Oh separation from God that’s the worst torment of them all, I can take all the other punishments but separation from God is the worst!” wrong! God pouring out his wrath on the wicked for all eternity is the worst punishment. being on fire with no hope is the worst punishment, you won’t be thinking about “separation from God” you will be in flames, and this is a man-made doctrine with no biblical basis, and takes verses out of context, twists the meaning and falsely says that the dead burn up one time and that’s it.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 is the verse used for this false doctrine And this is the verse that they will falsely hit you with, I have been hit with this verse multiple times by anti-Hell people. except that verse doesn’t teach separation, here 2 Thess 1:9 “Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” this verse is saying that they will be destroyed from the presence of the Lord. as we see in Revelation 15:8 "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." Is this verse saying away from? Or separated from? No! it says that the glory is coming from The Lord. So we can see that 2 Thess 1:9 says “from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” it is talking about the source of where the destruction is coming from or where the smoke is coming from in the other verse.

Hell was created by God Isaiah 30:33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.” So we see that it is the Lord's breath that kindles the fire of Hell, Tophet in this verse means Hell.

Psalms 139:8 "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

God created all things (Colossians 1:16) Satan didn’t create the real place called Hell, Hell didn’t magically come into existence, God created it as a place of everlasting punishment for those that reject and believe not the Son, and people choose not to believe in him, that is the purpose of hell it is punishment, not separation, Hell is not an eternal timeout. Bible says Hell is a place of Fire and Brimstone, Weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, worm dieth not, tormented, hellfire, no rest day or night, not “separation”. Using a Bible that removes the word Hell doesn’t change the reality that Hell is a place that exists in the heart of the Earth and the wicked will go there for everlasting punishment. It is impossible to escape the doctrine of hell in the old and New Testament hell is clearly described.

Now here is something else they falsely hit you with 2 Thessalonians 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:” when that verse says “obey” well that means we must work our way to heaven. But this is false, the Gospel means good news, that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again as taught in 1 Corinthians 15 the only way to obey that is to believe that, you can’t obey what Jesus already accomplished but you can believe in it. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved Acts 16:31. You don’t obey this command by living a good life, turning from all your sins, and doing good works, no you obey it by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. The next verse 2 Thessalonians 1:10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.” Notice it says all them that believe, not those who repented of all their sins, live a good life.

To obey the gospel means those that believe, it is not teaching a works salvation. Those that believe will be on the right side, and those that believe not will face everlasting destruction. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

False people will also take these verses which mention words like perish, death, destroyed, etc. to mean that there will be annihilation and that there is no hell, but this is not what the Bible is talking about at all. To perish, or be destroyed means to be in Hell, the Bible teaches that they are dead but still conscious, the “second death” referred to in the Bible in no way means or supports annihilation theory. the Bible does not teach annihilation, that is a doctrine that cults, Atheists, and evolutionists teach and believe in, that we are just evolved animals and when we die that’s it, we cease to exist with no God.

the Bible teaches that Jesus after dying went to hell for three days and three nights then was resurrected and that he now holds the keys of hell and of death, he wasn’t annihilated! if Hell is a place of annihilation then there is no way Jesus could have returned! Jesus would not have warned so many times about Hell, everlasting punishment if it is just someplace where you go to be annihilated, or if it doesn’t exist at all.

Gods law is perfect, Gods word is perfect, the Bible is his word, it is foolish for anybody to be against Hell because “Well I just don’t think a loving God would do that” but his word says that Hell is real, God says that this is the punishment for the wicked, God is perfectly loving just all those things, what you believe is irrelevant to the reality of the situation.

“Well Jesus is nice, he isn’t like that” that same Jesus who taught to love thy neighbor, love your enemies in that same sermon said Hellfire (Matthew 5:22) People choose which verses to believe, which verses to put on a bumper sticker and take out of context and use, they choose which verses to throw at someone to push their false works salvation gospel. They make up another Jesus, another God, the one they made up in their mind, it feels better to them, not the God that is revealed in the Holy scriptures. God is real, Hell is real, it is a horrible place of everlasting destruction, torment, scary place, it isn’t a separation from God.

well there are different interpretations about hell, however is not allowed to be discussed in this forum.

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Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Outreach category forums. Gnosticism may not be discussed in any CF forums. Unorthodox Christian theological topics include (but are not limited to):
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FineLinen

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The same thing that had us evicted from the Garden

"Who could ever divorce us from the endless love of God’s Anointed One? Absolutely no one! For nothing in the universe has the power to diminish his love toward us... his demonstrated love is our glorious victory over everything! So now I live with the confidence that there is nothing in the universe with the power to separate us from God’s love. I’m convinced that his love will triumph over death, life’s troubles, fallen angels, or dark rulers in the heavens. There is nothing in our present or future circumstances that can weaken his love. There is no power above us or beneath us—no power that could ever be found in the universe that can distance us from God’s passionate love, which is lavished upon us through our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One!" ~TPT
 
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"Who could ever divorce us from the endless love of God’s Anointed One? Absolutely no one! For nothing in the universe has the power to diminish his love toward us... his demonstrated love is our glorious victory over everything! So now I live with the confidence that there is nothing in the universe with the power to separate us from God’s love. I’m convinced that his love will triumph over death, life’s troubles, fallen angels, or dark rulers in the heavens. There is nothing in our present or future circumstances that can weaken his love. There is no power above us or beneath us—no power that could ever be found in the universe that can distance us from God’s passionate love, which is lavished upon us through our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One!"
Yet we were and still are cut off from the tree of life.
 
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