Hell has to be...

[Michie]

*You are in the Catholic forum*

Today we come to the final of the Four Last Things: Hell. I have written extensively on this topic over the years, largely in response to the widespread dismissal of the revealed doctrine of Hell. In contradiction to Scripture, many presume Hell is an unlikely destination for most. Never mind that Jesus taught just the opposite...

Continued below.
Hell Has to Be - Community in Mission

 

[Halbhh]

From the article:
"In contradiction to Scripture, many presume that Hell is an unlikely destination for most. Never mind that Jesus taught just the opposite (e.g., Matt 7:13-14). In my own small way, I have tried to keep people more rooted in the sobriety of the Gospel than in the wishful thinking of the modern age. No one warned of Hell more than did Jesus. Arguably, 21 of the 38 parables amount to warnings about Hell and the need to be ready for judgment day. (I have written more on that here: Jesus Who Loves You Warned Frequently of Hell.)"

A good message to tell more people in churches more often.

I see the next point pinpoints why hell was necessary. It's a good article.

"In short, there is Hell because of God’s respect for our freedom. God has made us free and our freedom is absolutely necessary if we are to love. "

 

[Multifavs]

Great article! I have a few things to say myself:

"Many people understand Heaven egocentrically: It’s a place where they will be happy on their own terms, where what pleases them will be available in abundance. The real Heaven is the Kingdom of God in all its fullness."
This definitely makes sense. When we think about Heaven, we shouldn't think about how we want it to be but about how it really is...of course, we don't know what it's really like. But what we should know is that, God doesn't change to align with our personal beliefs. I'm sure we all fall short in some way, but we need to do everything we can to follow Him. We should remember that God is merciful and loving, but that doesn't mean he's okay with everything we do. We need to be sorry for our sins and ask forgiveness.

"Understand this, too: God has not utterly rejected even the souls in Hell. Somehow, He still provides for their basic needs. They continue to exist and thus God continues to sustain them with whatever is required for that existence. He does not annihilate them or snuff them out."
Some Christians need to hear this. The "destruction" mentioned in the Bible is not a literal destruction, as in ceasing to exist, but a more figurative destruction, as in never being able to be with God and see Him. Humans were created to be immortal, so that is what we are in the next life, no matter where we go. If God didn't destroy the Devil who caused Adam and Eve to sin, why would he destroy human beings, made in His image? Indeed, He has given us free will and respects our freedom. We can either choose to be with Him forever or to be separated from Him forever.

I guess I kind of got carried away there! Anyway, this article makes some great points that need to be heard. A good read!

 

[Michie]

Great article! I have a few things to say myself:

"Many people understand Heaven egocentrically: It’s a place where they will be happy on their own terms, where what pleases them will be available in abundance. The real Heaven is the Kingdom of God in all its fullness."
This definitely makes sense. When we think about Heaven, we shouldn't think about how we want it to be but about how it really is...of course, we don't know what it's really like. But what we should know is that, God doesn't change to align with our personal beliefs. I'm sure we all fall short in some way, but we need to do everything we can to follow Him. We should remember that God is merciful and loving, but that doesn't mean he's okay with everything we do. We need to be sorry for our sins and ask forgiveness.

"Understand this, too: God has not utterly rejected even the souls in Hell. Somehow, He still provides for their basic needs. They continue to exist and thus God continues to sustain them with whatever is required for that existence. He does not annihilate them or snuff them out."
Some Christians need to hear this. The "destruction" mentioned in the Bible is not a literal destruction, as in ceasing to exist, but a more figurative destruction, as in never being able to be with God and see Him. Humans were created to be immortal, so that is what we are in the next life, no matter where we go. If God didn't destroy the Devil who caused Adam and Eve to sin, why would he destroy human beings, made in His image? Indeed, He has given us free will and respects our freedom. We can either choose to be with Him forever or to be separated from Him forever.

I guess I kind of got carried away there! Anyway, this article makes some great points that need to be heard. A good read!

Glad you liked it!

 

[Halbhh]

The "destruction" mentioned in the Bible is not a literal destruction, as in ceasing to exist, but a more figurative destruction, as in never being able to be with God and see Him.

Just so I can read more on that, is that an official doctrine laid out in more detail somewhere, like in the catechism? I know that 'mortalism' or 'conditional immortality' is a very old idea (the Christian version can be traced from the 2nd century), so that makes it likely there would be an official doctrine laid out in a very clear way somewhere.

 

[Mattin91]

Catechism of the Catholic Church


IV. HELL

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621



Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

 

[Halbhh]

Very interesting. Well stated imo. It specifies "eternal separation from God," and also the "eternal fire", but doesn't explicitly address specifically whether a human soul (not an angelic one) perishes there in a destroyed way (ceasing to hold together) in time? (I'm not seeing it addressed in the sections above, but am not assuming it's not somewhere else.) If there is more elsewhere, that would be interesting to read.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

This reminds me of something a liberal lutheran priest wrote many years ago...

He wrote that of all the things he disliked the most, the idea of hell was the one be had tried hardest to suppress. He wrote that even though he had tried to free himself from it in his personal faith, and his academical work, this was the hardest to get rid off.

After trying to escape this issue for decades he gave up, and had to accept that hell most likely exist. He went on to say how this tormented him, and how he went onto articulating new theology, so to prove that hell would be impossible to end up in, or nearly so.

He embraced Origen and his work of universial restoration. Hell could in fact be empty, he said. God in his infinite mercy could save everyone, even Satan. As Origen, he believed that no one would ever come to hell, without instantly repenting and regretting their disobedience.

This remorse had to invoke the mercy of Christ and everyone would be saves in the end.


The reason I'm writing this, is to emphasize just how utterly preposterous it is to claim that hell doesnt exist. Its superflawed. The entire freedom of mankind, and the endless righteousness of God, requires a punishment/ reward paradigm.

How can God be truely good if he promotes injustice? Why did Christ have to suffer, if everyone get saved in the end regardless? What's the purpose of evangelizing if it doesnt matter?

The lack of belief in hell makes the faith in heaven absurd. Reward and salvation in comparison to what??
It nulls the meaning of the passion of Christ and the cross.

Its the most trivial thing, until one goes under the layers of the surface. The lack of belief in hell further makes people ignore Christ. Why should I believe and change my life, if I simply stop to exist when I die ?
Why convert? This is a sleeping pill that kills so many people.

From an philosophical angle, it makes little or no sense either. To believe that something/ someone infinite, could create cosmos and mankind, not for it to last forever is rubbish and silly.

Every living human more than for any other part of creation has to live on forever, as we're made in Gods own image. You and I bear the image of Christ in our very being

Our godlike resemblance does grant us eternity, but where that eternity is spent, is our own choice. Salvation or damnation.

We're created ex nihilo, and we will change forms through our death, but we'll never cease to exist. God is infinite and so are we, as we're made by in Him in his image.

This is why Christ had to be incarnated. This is why it's of the greatest importance that Christ underwent his passion. And this is the reason it's a matter of life and death to convert souls for Christ, until the end of times.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I like this (from the article): But wait a minute; doesn’t everyone want to go to Heaven? Yes, but it is often a “heaven” as they define it, not the real Heaven. Many people understand Heaven egocentrically: It’s a place where they will be happy on their own terms, where what pleases them will be available in abundance. The real Heaven is the Kingdom of God in all its fullness. So while everyone wants to go to a “heaven” as they define it, not everyone wants to live in the Kingdom of God in all its fullness.