BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
After the rod of iron rule. God does kill people after the thousand years. God cannot contradict what God has said. Nothing in Corinthians contradicts anything in Rev.

What does the "Son" do with the rod of Iron?

Psa 2:6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion."
Psa 2:7 "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Psa 2:8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
Psa 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' "


Rev 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


God cannot contradict what God has said, but those promoting the Premil doctrine do not follow that same rule.

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:



We find the judgment of the living at His return in Matthew 25:31-46.
The passage leaves no mortals living on the planet.

We find the judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30.
The "time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some and "destruction" for others is found in Revelation 11:18.


Your doctrine produces tremendous conflict with many other passages, revealing that it cannot be correct.

.


 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No night does not mean there aren't more days. It even speaks of fruit appearing every month...a month is 30 days so "the last day" can only apply to the last day of a certain time period.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

There. Where is "there"? The city.

Another mistake you are making is thinking there is no night anywhere. It says only no night in the city, because of how much light it has.
You seem very determined to maintain that Jesus did not mean what he said.
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,602
2,107
Texas
✟196,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What does the "Son" do with the rod of Iron?

Psa 2:6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion."
Psa 2:7 "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Psa 2:8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
Psa 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' "


Rev 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


God cannot contradict what God has said, but those promoting the Premil doctrine do not follow that same rule.

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:



We find the judgment of the living at His return in Matthew 25:31-46.
The passage leaves no mortals living on the planet.

We find the judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30.
The "time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some and "destruction" for others is found in Revelation 11:18.


Your doctrine produces tremendous conflict with many other passages, revealing that it cannot be correct.

.





The text also says this---- I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Then the text goes on to say of His inheritance---You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.

And if that means what you take it to mean, that Jesus utterly destroys His inheritance, why is it that in the NT, to rule with a rod of iron means the following?

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule(poimaino) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

rule---poimaino
poy-mah'-ee-no
from poimhn - poimen 4166; to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, superviser):--feed (cattle), rule.


This same Greek word is used in the following passage.

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed(poimaino) my sheep.


What Jesus really meant then---Destroy my sheep? If that is what rule(poimaino) means in Revelation 2:27, why not here as well? poimaino is used in only a handful of verses in the NT. Which of those other verses that it is used in, that it means to destroy something or someone, since that is what you are apparently taking it to mean in Revelation 2:27? And as to Revelation 2:27, Jesus also gives overcomers power over the nations, where they, too, are to rule them with a rod of iron. I guess that means to you they are to destroy these nations then. And some of you wonder why some of us can't seem to get onboard with Amil.
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,602
2,107
Texas
✟196,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You seem very determined to maintain that Jesus did not mean what he said.


The last day of this age is the last day of this age, not the last day of all human existence where no other days follow afterwards.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The last day of this age is the last day of this age, not the last day of all human existence where no other days follow afterwards.
But once again, Jesus did not say "the last day of this age". You said that.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
What does the "Son" do with the rod of Iron?

Psa 2:6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion."
Psa 2:7 "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Psa 2:8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
Psa 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' "


That isn't killing the individuals.

Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


Barnes:


As the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers - The ironic here is that of the vessel of a potter - a fragile vessel of clay - struck with a rod of iron and broken into fragments. That is, as applied to the nations, there would be no power to oppose His rule; the enemies of his government would be destroyed. Instead of remaining firm and compacted together, they would be broken like the clay vessel of a potter when struck with a rod of iron.

Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev_12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

"Rule"
G4165
p??µa?´??
poimaino¯
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.


Some people don't understand what a supervising shepherd does when he TENDS a flock under his control. To tend is to take care of! A supervisor watches over his employees, not kill them! A shepherd controls and protects his flock and that is the type of rule that shall be not the judgment and destruction of the wicked during the Millennium. They are protected from the deceptions of satan for the entire thousand years. It is clear error to mix the concept of shepherding with judging and punishing and killing. In addition, they will have no way to group and form together to rebel during this time which is expressed by the vessels being broken up. The pieces are individuals and the vessels represented they previous way they had been grouped together in opposition to Christ.




There is another use of this vessel being destroyed and it is not about killing people but breaking up an organization of people who rebel against God:

Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Isa 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

The metaphor of a vessel being broken is never about individuals being killed. God didn't kill every Jew. But their rebellion and sin against him caused the demise of their chosen status, even the covenant between them and God. Fast forward to the Millennium and again those who rebel against Christ shall have their wicked organizations broken up, leaving them powerless and unable to organize against Christ during this period of TIME of the reign/rule with a rod of iron. They live to be reigned over. When God allows satan to deceive them, then a brief and failed rebellion occurs and they are killed and judged and are no more forever.

Barnes:

As the breaking of the potter’s vessel - That is, as an earthen, fragile vessel, which is easily dashed to pieces. The image here is all drawn from the bursting forth, or the complete ruin of the swelling wall; but the sense is, that the Jewish republic would be entirely broken, scattered, demolished.




Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Barnes:

Psalms 2:9

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron - That is, evidently, thine enemies, for it cannot be supposed to be meant that he would sway such a scepter over his own people. The idea is that he would crush and subdue all his foes. He would have absolute power, and the grant which had been made to him would be accompanied with authority sufficient to hold it. That dominion which was to be conceded to him would be not only one of protection to his friends, but also of punishment on his enemies; and the statement here is made prominent because the former part of the psalm had respect to rebels, and the Messiah is here represented as being invested with power sufficient to punish and restrain them. The Vulgate renders this “thou shalt rule;” the Septuagint, “thou shalt feed - p??µa?e??? poimaneis; that is, thou shalt feed them as a shepherd does his flock; thou shalt exercise over them the care and protection of a shepherd.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The text also says this---- I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Then the text goes on to say of His inheritance---You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.

And if that means what you take it to mean, that Jesus utterly destroys His inheritance, why is it that in the NT, to rule with a rod of iron means the following?

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule(poimaino) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

rule---poimaino
poy-mah'-ee-no
from poimhn - poimen 4166; to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, superviser):--feed (cattle), rule.


This same Greek word is used in the following passage.

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed(poimaino) my sheep.


What Jesus really meant then---Destroy my sheep? If that is what rule(poimaino) means in Revelation 2:27, why not here as well? poimaino is used in only a handful of verses in the NT. Which of those other verses that it is used in, that it means to destroy something or someone, since that is what you are apparently taking it to mean in Revelation 2:27? And as to Revelation 2:27, Jesus also gives overcomers power over the nations, where they, too, are to rule them with a rod of iron. I guess that means to you they are to destroy these nations then. And some of you wonder why some of us can't seem to get onboard with Amil.

Borrow a piece of your wife's favorite pottery and then hit it with a piece of rebar, which is made up mainly of Iron.

Then show your wife what you have done.

Then give us a report on your wife's reaction.

This should help you understand the passage...


.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
You seem very determined to maintain that Jesus did not mean what he said.


Actually it is you that seems "very determined to maintain that Jesus did not mean what he said."
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,602
2,107
Texas
✟196,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But once again, Jesus did not say "the last day of this age". You said that.



If it's not the last day of this present age, what is it the last day of? It can't be meaning the last day of eternity since there is no such day like that. Even if the thousand years are fulfilled in this age before the 2nd coming, it wouldn't be the last day of the thousand years either, since satan's little season follows the finishing of the thousand years. And why would Jesus have to say it was the last day of this age in order to be so? Didn't He provide us with a brain that is capable of logically deducing things? If one said that in January it snowed for 6 days straight in Texas, and another person relayed that same story as follows----in the winter in January it snowed for 6 days straight in Texas---the first person though didn't mention a thing about it also being winter. How did the 2nd person know it was also winter then? Probably goes back to God providing us with brains that are capable of logically deducing things, might be my guess.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If it's not the last day of this present age, what is it the last day of? It can't be meaning the last day of eternity since there is no such day like that.
There's no such day like that? Are you sure about that? What constitutes a day? Is it not the rising and setting of the sun? Do you think that sun will rise for eternity? Do you think there will always be night?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually it is you that seems "very determined to maintain that Jesus did not mean what he said."
You're obviously confused. Jesus said "the last day". That's what I maintain. I'm not the one adding a few extra words to the end of his sentence to make it fit what I believe.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If it's not the last day of this present age, what is it the last day of? It can't be meaning the last day of eternity since there is no such day like that.
Did the Angel Gabriel not tell Daniel that he would rest until the end of days? Obviously then there is an end of days. In other words, there will not always be more days. I'm not sure why you have such a hard time believing what it so plainly says.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
You're obviously confused. Jesus said "the last day". That's what I maintain. I'm not the one adding a few extra words to the end of his sentence to make it fit what I believe.

I added wisdom, feel free to continue to ignore it in favor of your current beliefs.

Do you still maintain that the burning of Babylon in Rev 19 was because Christ used this supposed fire against her?
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Did the Angel Gabriel not tell Daniel that he would rest until the end of days? Obviously then there is an end of days. In other words, there will not always be more days. I'm not sure why you have such a hard time believing what it so plainly says.


You have not commented on the fact that there are months of time in the eternity...a month is 30 days, a day is part light and part night/darkness not to mention that the lack of night is said to ONLY not happen in the city because of the light of Christ. No where does scripture say night ceases to exist outside of the city.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do you still maintain that the burning of Babylon in Rev 19 was because Christ used this supposed fire against her?

2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


2Pe 3:6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You have not commented on the fact that there are months of time in the eternity...a month is 30 days, a day is part light and part night/darkness not to mention that the lack of night is said to ONLY not happen in the city because of the light of Christ. No where does scripture say night ceases to exist outside of the city.
"On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month."

This is obviously symbolic language. Notice the tree of life. But I suppose you think we will have to literally eat literal fruit in order to maintain eternal life. Is that what you think?
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I added wisdom, feel free to continue to ignore it in favor of your current beliefs.
lol. Good one. So you can add words to scripture as long as you call it "wisdom". I'll try to remember that.
Do you still maintain that the burning of Babylon in Rev 19 was because Christ used this supposed fire against her?
I don't know what you're talking about. When did I comment on "the burning of Babylon"?
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You have not commented on the fact that there are months of time in the eternity...a month is 30 days, a day is part light and part night/darkness not to mention that the lack of night is said to ONLY not happen in the city because of the light of Christ. No where does scripture say night ceases to exist outside of the city.
And you just completely ignored what I said about "the end of days". Did the angel speak of an "end of days"? Yes or no.

Let me refresh your memory.

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.
 
Upvote 0