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Hebrews Sabbath rest, how do you read it?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by W2L, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    Galatians 4 doesn't mention "sabbath" either (in fact, all of Galatians doesn't mention it even once). What it does mention is "days, and months, and times, and years."

    BTW, whatever 'translation' (I use that term loosely) you are using the Koine Greek does not say "special days" and it doesn't even say "heorte" (feastal days). It just says "days" "observing":

    Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

    Gal 4:10 ημερας παρατηρεισθε και μηνας και καιρους και ενιαυτους

    The context, of which Paul is citing from is, taking from the OT:

    [1] 'days' (daily) meat and drink offerings, oil, etc.

    [2] 'months' (monthly new moons)

    [3] 'times' (seasons), such as the feasts were held, spring and fall

    [4] 'years' (yearly events, such as those things in the feasts that took place only once a year (Leviticus 23), and such as the land rests, Leviticus 25, etc)

    It says nothing of the weekly [period]. Even the OT demonstrates this:

    Numbers 28:1-31, 29:1-40; 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Isaiah 1:13-14; Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1-11; Hosea 2:11, and see also Galatians 4:10; Colossians 2:16 (tied into Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10)
     
  2. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    It was given to the "children of Israel" (Exodus 31:13) as a "perpetual (eternal) covenant" (Exodus 31:16) since it is the "sign" that the LORD is the Creator ("made") of "heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed" (Exodus 31:17).

    Hint:

    Jesus is the real Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the real "Prince" (Genesis 32:28; Acts 5:31) with God, the "overc[omer]" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20) with whom the eternal covenant was made and His "disciples" are His "children", in whom the "law" of God (Exodus 20:1-17; Isaiah 8:20) is sealed, given Him by His Father (Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33).

    Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21; Gen 32:28; Act 5:31;

    Matthew:

    Matthew 2:13 KJB - And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

    Matthew 2:14 KJB - When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

    Matthew 2:15 KJB - And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

    Hosea:

    Hosea 11:1 KJB - When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

    According to the prophet Hosea, “Israel” is the [male, “him”] “child”, even the “son” of God [JEHOVAH, the Father], whom God “called” “out of Egypt”.

    Compare again to the words specifically used by Matthew in Matthew 2:13-15:

    "the young child", "into Egypt", "the young child", "him", "the young child", "into Egypt", "that it might be fulfilled" "which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet", "Out of Egypt", "have I called", "my son".

    To the words used in Hosea 11:1:

    “a child”, “him”, “called” “my son” “out of Egypt”.

    What was this "child's" name? Who is speaking through the prophet? Who then is the "my" of "my son", and who then is this "son"?

    Notice:

    1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB - Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    Just as Adam (the first), Jesus is Adam the second/last (1 Corinthians 15:45,47), for (Colossians 1:16) whom the Sabbath was "made" (Mark 2:27) at Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11).

    Just as David, Jesus is the real David (Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23,24, 37:24,25; Hosea 3:5).

    Just as Solomon, Jesus is the real Solomon, the "son of David" (Luke 18:38), the "Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

    Just as Joshua the son of Nun (perpetual/eternal), Jesus is the real Joshua (Matthew 1:21; Luke 1:31) the Son of the Eternal Father.

    Just as Moses, Jesus is "that Prophet" that God the Father raised up (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; John 1:21, 6:14, 7:40; Acts 3:22-23, 7:37) who would lead his people out of bondage of sin into the promised land.

    Just as Melchizedek priest of Salem, Jesus is the High Priest of Peace/Gospel (Hebrews 5:10, 7:26, 9:11).

    Just as Isaac (rejoicing in joy), Jesus is the true Isaac, our rejoicing (Jeremiah 15:16; John 16:22).

    The everlasting covenant (Malachi 2:5; Hebrews 13:20) was made (between God the Father, and) with the real "Israel" (Jesus (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1), the "elect"; Isaiah 42:21; Matthew 12:18), for it is said, it is with the "house of Israel" (Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:8), and Jesus is over His own "house", whose "house are we" (Hebrews 3:6).

    Matthew is clear, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, citing the inspired prophet Hosea, that Jesus is the real fulfillment of Hosea 11:1, and his name is there given as "Israel" - the real overcomer over all things with God.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  3. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    There were all kinds of Sabbaths and how are you going to explain that to Gentiles? There was the seventh day but there was also on for the Jubilee year and a bunch of others. I'm not saying it's not important, I'm saying it's none binding for a Christian. What the significance is with regards to Paul not actually using the term 'sabbath' is wide open to conjecture. This doesn't really seem like a major point of contention, what is your point?
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mark, that is an easy question to answer through the scriptures. There is only one Sabbath spoken and written by God on two tables of stone *EXODUS 32:16. There is only one Sabbath that is everlasting according to the scriptures and that is God's 4th Commandment; the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH spoken and written on the tables of stone that is a memorial of creation that JESUS is the LORD of *EXODUS 20:8-11; EXODUS 31:13-17; MATTHEW 12:8.

    The other "SPECIAL" sabbaths were from the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT * EXODUS 24:7 and were normally connected to feast days and Jubilees *LEVITICUS 23. Many of these pointed to JESUS and are fulfilled in him in the NEW COVENANT *COLOSSIANS 2:16-17. (More scripture here). The "SPECIAL" sabbaths written by MOSES are the SHADOW pointing to JESUS and Gods' plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. These are not God's 4th Commandment spoken by God and written on tables of stone (Everlasting).

    EXODUS 31:13-17 [13], Speak also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you. [14], You shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [15], Six days may work be done; but on the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work on the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [16], Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a EVERLASTING covenant. [17], It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

    New Living Translation
    The people of Israel must keep the Sabbath day by observing it from generation to generation. This is a covenant obligation for all time.

    English Standard Version
    Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.

    New American Standard Bible
    'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'

    King James Bible
    Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

    Christian Standard Bible
    The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a permanent covenant.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant

    Darby Bible Translation
    And the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations -- [it is] an everlasting covenant.

    Now all of this links into the next key scripture as follows

    ............................

    ISAIAH 66:22-23 [22], For as the NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your descendants and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the LORD.

    ............................

    CONCLUSION: Yep the scriptures are pretty clear here that God's 4th commandment SABBATH *EXODUS 20:8-11, is an EVERLASTING COVENANT that will be kept forever even in the NEW EARTH to come.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  5. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    Adding a thought to brother LoveGod'sWord.

    It's simple. Prayerfully read:

    Joh_7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

    Pro_4:2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

    Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

    The Sabbath of the LORD is separate from the yearly festal sabbaths, as denoted in Leviticus 23 (see Leviticus 23:3; then see Leviticus 23:4,38 "beside the sabbaths of the LORD")

    The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is called "the sabbath of the LORD" (Exodus 20:8-11, etc), and "My sabbaths" (Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:20), as opposed to theirs, called "your sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,35), and "her sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 26:31; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11), etc.

    There are even commentaries that get this:

    Interestingly enough Albert Barnes, a noted Bible Commentator, states on Colossians 2:16, on the word “sabbatwn”:

    “... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...” - Albert Barnes, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

    Furthermore, another noted Commentator, Adam Clarke, states on the same passage:

    “... There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...” - Adam Clarke, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

    Even the Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary state:

    “... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10). ...” - Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.
     
  6. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    Brother Mark. It is central to God's own character (Exodus 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-6), in who God is, the Creator who is Merciful and Just. It matters in relationship to the plan of salvation/redemption in how God deals with sin and sinners.

    A Christian is a follower (in spirit (heart) and in truth (deed)) of Jesus Christ.

    The Bible says:

    Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    How did Jesus, our only example of perfect living, perfect love, perfect righteousness, perfect self-sacrifice, live?

    By every "word" (Deuteronomy 4:2) that proceeded out of the mouth of God (Exodus 20:1-17).

    Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

    Look at Jesus' mission in Luke 4:14-21. Citing Isaiah 61, when? The day of God's rest, the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD thy God. He unites the sabbath to the Gospel of salvation, as He is filled with the Holy Ghost. Rest from sin (1 John 3:4). He came with deliverance from transgression of God's law, to heal the broken hearted, and what did they do? They desired to murder that deliverer on the sabbath, which is transgressing the very essence of what the sabbath, from Creation was for. Atonement with God. Bound by the cords of love.

    A Holy Ghost filled life will live as Jesus lived.

    No. It isn't brother Mark. The word (sabbath, the 7th day) is factually (open the books and search for yourself, or produce the words) not present in Romans or Galatians. That is undisputable by all except the most hard of hearts. That is not conjecture in the least.

    I have done full indepth studies on both books, and anytime you want to look at them line by line, we can, so long as time and circumstances allows. Say "when".

    It should be obvious. The words (sabbath and the 7th day) are not present in, and thus not the main subject of, either Romans or Galatians.

    It would be like attempting to say, after reading the book of Philemon, and not finding the words sabbath or the 7th day, and some person begin to tell others that it really is the subject of that Epistle, even though the words are absent from it, and in such a way as to have Paul saying that the sabbath is not for Christians therein. The words are absent from Philemon, as they are from Romans and Galatians, because that is not the intent of focus for those epistles.

    There is an Epistle which deals with the sabbath, and it is the book of Hebrews, whose argument is unbreakable, of which there is already an study posted on these forums on it.

    This has been posted previously

    Hebrews 3-4 is clear.

    Hebrews 4:3, "my (God's) rest" and "the works were finished from the foundation of the world", which is a direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3. It even uses the word "finished". God rested the 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3. It is His rest, the 7th day, the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God, Exodus 20:8-11.

    Hebrews 4:4, "he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works", which "certain place" is Genesis 2:1-3; re-cited in Exodus 20:8-11. The 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.

    Hebrews 4:5, "my (God's) rest)", citing Psalms 95, which is citing Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc. Again, this is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of God at Creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

    Hebrews 4:6, "remaineth", from when? "from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3 and thus it is not new, but has been around from the beginning.

    Hebrews 4:9, "rest", sabbatismos, literally and truly sabbath keeping in scripture and in all known extant Greek sources, dictionaries, and so on and again "remaineth".

    Hebrews 4:10, "his (God's) rest", which is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God from Genesis 2:1-3., "as God did from his (works)", which "works were finished from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3.

    Hebrews 4:11, "that rest" (ie God's rest), the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.

    Look around by using the "search" option on Hebrews 3-4, and there is found even a whole thread on Hebrews 3 - 4 that seems to have been around awhile now that has gone into this in some considerable depth- Hebrews 3-4 [KJB], the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD JEHOVAH - "my rest" "remaineth" to My people.
     
  7. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    What's interesting in your post is what you don't mention, should observing the Sabbath be enforced under the pain of death to all who work on the seventh day? No mention of why God had a Sabbath in the first place, it was a symbolic 'sign' between God and the children of Israel commemorating the six days of creation:

    Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (Exodus 31:15)
    The King James translates the word you keep expressing as 'everlasting' as perpetual (H5769 עוֹלָם `owlam).

    properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always: (Strong’s Dictionary H5769 עוֹלָם `owlam)
    The subtle point here is the vanishing point is concealed, this commandment is nowhere extended to the Gentiles in the New Testament. This is connected to the Sinai covenant which are shadows of the substance found in Christ (Col. 2:17, Hebrews 7:26-8:5, Hebrews 10:1).

    “The experience of ‘sabbath rest’ points to a present ‘rest’ ( katapausis ) reality in which those ‘who have believed are entering’ (4:3) and it points to a future ‘rest’ reality (4:11). Physical sabbath-keeping on the part of the new covenant believer as affirmed by ‘sabbath rest’ epitomizes cessation from ‘works’ (4:10) in commemoration of God’s rest at creation (4:4 = Genesis 2:2) and manifests faith in the salvation provided by Christ."

    Hebrews 4:3-11 affirms that physical ‘sabbath rest’ ( sabbatismos ) is the weekly outward manifestation of the inner experience of spiritual rest ( katapausis ) in which the final … rest is … experienced already ‘today’ (4:7). Thus ‘sabbath rest’ combines in itself creation-commemoration, salvation-experience, and eschaton [end-time]-anticipation as the community of faith moves forward toward the final consummation of total restoration and rest" (Anchor Bible pp. 855-856).
    I think it's pretty obvious that you are confusing the shadow and the substance here. What's more you have failed to recognize that this was a perpetual covenant for the children of Israel, throughout their generations and not extended to the Gentiles.The vanishing point of the 'sign' of the covenant is found in the completed work of Christ, there still remains a rest for the people of God and you enter into that sabbath rest by faith in Christ who loved us and gave himself for us. It is the shadow of the substance found in Christ (Romans 3:21-22)

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello brother Mark, some comments from God's WORD for your consideration.
    Brother, why would I need to mention the Sabbath should be enforced under the pain of death to all who work on the seventh day? Your question was in relation to there being many different types of Sabbath and which one isthe right one wasn't it? These are new questions in this post which where not related to the last post. Let's have a look at them however using God's WORD as our guide.

    Under the OLD COVENANT and the CIVIL LAWS of ISRAEL, if anyone openly broke ANY of God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:1-17 they were put to death. For example the under the MOSAIC CIVIL laws from the BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 the DEATH penalty for open sin included...

    1st Commandment * EXODUS 20:3; DEUTERONOMY 17:1-5; 14:6-10; EXODUS 22:20
    2nd Commandment * EXODUS 20:4; DEUTERONOMY 27:15
    3rd Commandment * EXODUS 20:7; LEVITICUS 24:16
    4th Commandment * EXODUS 31:14; NUMBERS 15:32-36;
    5th Commandment * EXODUS 20:12; EXODUS 21:15-17);
    6th Commandment * EXODUS 20:13; LEVITICUS 24:17; NUMBERS 35:31-33);
    7th Commandment * EXODUS 20:14; LEVITICUS 20:10; JOHN 8:3-5) etc.
    8th Commandment * EXODUS 21:16 (kidnapping)
    9th Commandment * DEUTERONOMY 19:15-21
    10th Commandment * (not done openly)

    This was to teach God's people something that we are also taught under the NEW COVENANT
    That is the WAGES OF SIN (breaking any of God's Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4) is DEATH *ROMANS 6:23.

    Today the penalty is the same. If we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN and the wages of SIN is DEATH for all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin *HEBREWS 10:26-27. The only difference today is that the execution of the DEATH penalty is at the second coming *REVELATION 22:12; ISAIAH 13:11; EZEKIEL 18:20-23; ECCLESIASTES 8:11; PSALMS 37:38

    That is not true brother. This is also answered in the 4th commandment itself and the very words of JESUS let's take a look at what God's WORD says...

    Q1. WHY DID GOD MAKE THE SABBATH?

    MARK 2:27 And he [JESUS] said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath:

    A1. JESUS says the reason why the SABBATH was made was for mankind.

    .................

    Q2. WHY DID JESUS MAKE THE SABBATH FOR MANKIND?

    EXODUS 20:8-11
    [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
    [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
    [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
    [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

    Verse 11 especially also links back to the SABBATH in the creation week. Let's have a look.

    GENESIS 2:1-3
    [1], Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and all the host of them.
    [2], And on the SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK which he had made; and HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
    [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND SANCTIFIED IT [set apart and made HOLY]: BECAUSE HE HAD RESTED FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH GOD HAD CREATED AND MADE.

    A2. JESUS made the SABBATH for MANKIND as a MEMORIAL of CREATION and BLESSED, MADE IT A CONTINUAL HOLY DAY and commands his people to REMEBER the SEVENTH DAY and the GOD of creation and to KEEP this day as a HOLY DAY. We are to REST as GOD rested. NO WORK or BUSINESS is to be done on the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

    ..............

    Q3. WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF ISRAEL?

    Origin of ISRAEL and the twelve tribes.

    The promise of God was given to Abraham that his descendance would be as the sand of the sea or start of heaven *GENESIS 22:15-18. Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau *GENESIS 25:31. God’s promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through Abrahams descendant Jacob *GENESIS 32:11-12. Jacon on his way to meet Esau wrestles with God and God blesses him and changes his name to ISRAEL *GENESIS 32:24-28.

    The name ISRAEL is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob (now named ISRAEL) had 12 sons representing the 12 sons or tribes of Israel *GENESIS 35:22-26. From here we see that God's NEW COVENANT promise was to ABRAHAMS decendents who GOD calls ISRAEL *JEREMIAH 31:31-34 which is also repeated here as the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:7-12 to ISRAEL (God's people). So the NEW COVENANT promise is to ISRAEL.

    Now let's look at the meaning of the name that God gave to his people. The name "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" God gave this name to his people and it means that they shall rule with God. Take a look at the following scriptures from REVELATION speaking of God's people.

    REVELATION 1:5-6
    [5], And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6], And HAS MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS TO GOD AND HIS FATHER; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    and again...

    REVELATION 5:10 And HAVE MADE US TO OUR GOD KINGS AND PRIESTS; AND WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH.

    Peter speaking of God's people says it this way...

    1 PETER 2:9-10
    [9], But you [God's people] are a chosen generation, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD [KINGS AND PRIESTS], an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light; [10], Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    Sound familar? "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" WHY?

    JESUS is our great HIGH PRIEST ministering on our behalf in the HEVENLY SANCTUARY *HEBREWS 4:14. JESUS is the KING of KINGS *REVELATIONS 17:14; 19:16

    HE WILL RULE WITH GOD WHICH IS THE MEANING OF "ISRAEL" is the name given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD because JESUS will make them to rule with him as PRIESTS and KINGS.

    Notice further, also in REVELATION 7:3-8 just before the judgements of God are poured out on the world God's people are sealed with God's Spirit and 144,000 come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

    REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of ISRAEL. [5], Of the tribe of JUDAH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of REUBEN were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of GAD were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of ASHER were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of MANESSAH were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of SIMEON were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of LEVI were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of ZEBULON were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of JOSEPH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of BENJAMIN were sealed twelve thousand.

    A3. The ORIGIN of ISRAEL is a name that GOD gave to Jacob and his descendence. The meaning of the name ISRAEL mean that God's people "WILL RULE WITH GOD". JESUS is GOD *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. KING OF KING *REVELATIONS 17:14; 19:16 and our GREAT HIGH PRIEST *HEBREWS 4:14. God's ISRAEL meaning God's people will be KINGS and PRIESTS ruling with God *REVELATION 1:5-6; REVELATION 5:10; 1 PETER 2:9-10. The NEW COVENANT promise is to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

    .............

    Q4. WHO ARE GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

    There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise *GALATIANS 3:28-29. The children of the FLESH are not ISRAEL those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the promises of God's WORD are ISREAL *ROMANS 9:6-8. God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given BORN AGAIN to have a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:7-12; ROMANS 2:28-29. Under the NEW COVENANT all those who are in CHRIST are God's ISRAEL *COLOSSIANS 3:11; ROMANS 10:11-13. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *JEREMIAH 31:33-34; EZEKIEL 36:26-27; HEBREWS 8:7-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

    A4. God's ISRAEL (Those who will RULE WITH GOD) are all those in CHRIST who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (the Church). If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT promise.

    Perpetual means everlasting that is why you were provided multiple parallel translations. Notice in your reference meaning (emphasis added) the meaning of עוֹלָם `owlam is eternity, or time out of mind. Concealed vanishing point does not say that eternity comes to an end or that time out of mind is known. This is the reason I provided multiple translations and also why scripture was provided showing that the Sabbath would be continued in the NEW EARTH.

    New Living Translation
    The people of Israel must keep the Sabbath day by observing it from generation to generation. This is a covenant obligation for all time.

    English Standard Version
    Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.

    New American Standard Bible
    'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'

    King James Bible
    Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

    Christian Standard Bible
    The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a permanent covenant.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant

    Darby Bible Translation
    And the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations -- [it is] an everlasting covenant.

    Now all of this links into the next key scripture as follows

    ............

    ISAIAH 66:22-23 [22], For as the NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your descendants and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the LORD.
    AS has been shown above already this is a false statement as the word perpetual means eternity and as the scriptures also show in the previous section the Sabbath will be continued and kept in the NEW EARTH. All the parallel bible translations also shown disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures. Also as already shown above GOD'S ISRAEL under the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. There are no longer any Gentiles we are all one in Christ. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27

    Brother you are mixing up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with GOD'S eternal LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS * ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT was how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is that it pointed to? The scripture references you provided are not to God's 10 commandments but to the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVANANT. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Detailed scripture support here showing why click me.

    I am not sure why you think I disagree with the above? None of the above says that God's Sabbath is no more. It is only saying that we can only enter into God's rest (the SABBATH) by believing and following God's WORD (believing the Gospel). As written above God's spiritual rest through the gospel affirms God's physical rest in the Sabbath. You cannot enter into God's pysical rest without entering into God's spiritual rest of believing and following God's WORD. I have always believed that no one enters into God's rest (the SABBATH) without first entering the spiritual rest of the Gospel (BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word).

    Not really brother. I think it is the other way around as proven in this post through the Word of God. You have only been provided God's WORD brother. They are God's WORD not mine and they do indeed disagree with you. Something for you to pray about and to consider. You are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgment day. That is why we are advised to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. All those who continue in known unreptantant sin according to God's WORD will not enter into God's Kingdom. Only sent in all LOVE brother as a help.

    May God bless brother as you as you seek him through his Word.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  9. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Your getting this a bit twisted, the moral underpinnings reflect the righteousness of God, now fully revealed in Christ. The Sabbath controversy in the New Testament was generally between Christ and the teachers of the Law. Jesus is plucking corn on the Sabbath and when he is confronted he replies ' the sabbath was made for man not man fir the Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament is there some special emphasis, let alone guidance requiring Christians to observe the Jewish sabbath. Hohn makes a passing reference to 'the Lord's' day' leavin some to wonder if that's Saturday or Sunday.
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello brother Mark.

    Seems everything you are trying to accuse others of is what you are doing. Let's see why. Firstly there was no controversy in relation to the Sabbath accept for how to truly keep the Sabbath Holy accoding to God's 4th Commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 which is what JESUS taught in regards to Sabbath keeping in the NEW Testament.

    The Pharisees/Lawyers had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath commandment that it had become a burden to the people and was nearly impossible to keep (LUKE 13:14; JOHN 5:10-18; 9:16; etc.).

    Jesus taught us that this was not the purpose of the Sabbath to be a burden. He taught that….

    (1) The Sabbath was made for mankind and that mankind was not created for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27).

    (2) He is the Lord of the Sabbath (maker and creator) and that this is His day “Lord's Day” (Mark 2:28)

    (3) It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14)

    (4) Jesus taught and fellow-shipped with his people on the Sabbath (Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56).

    (5). He is our example and we are to follow him (1 John 2:6; 1 Peter 2:21)

    Similar verses can be shown for the apostles after the death of Jesus (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; REVELATION 1:10)

    JESUS who is our example as well as all the Apostles kept the Sabbath. Paul kept it with both JEWS and GENTILES * MATTHEW 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; MARK 3:1-5; LUKE 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; JOHN 7:22-23; 9:14; MARK 1:21; MARK 6:2; LUKE 4:16; 31; LUKE 14:1; 23:56; JOHN 2:6; MATTHEW 16:24; 1 CORINTHIANS 11:1; EPHESIANS 5:1-21; PETER 2:20-22; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; REVELATION 1:10

    JESUS taught us the true meaning of the Sabbath and how to keep it. Paul continues the thought here...

    HEBREWS 4:9 [9], There remains a KEEPING OF THE SABBATH to the people of God.

    Seems JESUS and all the Apostles disagree with you brother. There is no such thing as a JEWISH Sabbath. JESUS says who the Sabbath was made for here.

    MARK 2:27 [27], And he said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath.

    Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for Man. It is a memorial of creation and God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11; GENESIS 2:1-3. Moses was not a Jew was he? Either was Adam and Eve were they? The Sabbath was made well before any JEWS were made.

    Where does it say in God's WORD that the Sabbath is only for the JEWS?

    A Jew is from JUDAH which is from one of the twelve tribes of ISRAEL. You may need to rethink what your saying and proclaiming here brother as it is not God's Word. EXODUS 20:10 includes the "STRANGER" that is within your home. The HEBREW word used here is גּר גּיר; gêr gêyr; From H1481; properly a guest ; by implication a foreigner: - alien, sojourner, stranger. Meaning someone outside of ISRAEL. As JESUS says the SABBATH was made for mankind *MARK 2:27.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  11. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    It is still (Numbers 15:30-31) under the penalty of death (Ezekiel 18:4,20), for Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever:

    Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Read Psalms 149:1-9; Revelation 20:9-10,14.
     
  12. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Jesus did teach a fair amount regarding the Sabbath, usually because he was accused of breaking it. Little did they know, the completed work of Christ was the Sabbath were in people of God were to find rest, because the work would be done once and for all. Indeed, the Old Testament, starting in the second chapter of Genesis has a great deal to teach regarding the Sabbath, more important then how his was practiced among the ancient Hebrews under the Sinai covenant, we should give some passing interest to what it meant. There were many memorials that marks crucial moments in redemptive history starting with creation itself. Passover, Tabernacles, the feast of unleavened bread were and are vital reminders of the wonderful works of God. I'm fairly well acquainted with what Jesus taught regarding the Sabbath and I can't reconcile what I'm reading in this thread with the New Testament witness.

    Well, virtually impossible, I'm still puzzled how you manage to turn a commandment to do no work into a works righteousness but that's religion for you.

    That's the enemies of Jesus accusing him of not keeping the Sabbath, to which he informs them he is the Lord of the Sabbath.

    So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:28)
    This must of come as something of a surprise to the Jews who heard it, since they had been taught that God was Lord of the Sabbath, but the truth of the incarnation had not sunk in yet.

    Well, you at least cite the right verses related to the Sabbath controversy.

    Well yes of course. So tell me, what commandment does the Apostle John refer to here?

    Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining. (1 John 2;7-8)
    I'm trying to figure out what you mean regarding a commandment and what John is talking about because they appear to be two different things.

    To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. (1 Peter 2:21)
    Again, yes of course, now what example does the Apostle Peter refer to here?

    When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” (1 Peter 2:23-24)​

    Sounds like pure gospel to me and strangely, nothing related to the fourth commandment. Curious, very curious indeed.

    Yes and all the prophets speak of him as well:

    All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Acts 10:43)​

    Don't you just love a good Bible study. You have a lot going on here, let's see what you have cited without commentary or exposition:

    If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:7)​

    Jesus is wrongly accused of breaking the Sabbath, a sin worthy of death under the Sinai covenant. What did Jesus mean when he quotes, 'I desire mercy not sacrifice'? Jesus asks them before performing a healing if it's lawful to perform a miracle on the Sabbath, which is a work to put it mildly. They say nothing and when he does it, they start plotting to kill him. It's almost like Jesus has a slightly different way of looking at the Sabbath does it not?

    Here we see the same problem:

    Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent. (Mark 3:7)
    Some of these references seem unrelated to the Sabbath:

    Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:1)​

    I really don't see how chasing this in circles is going to help us understand the New Testament witness better.

    Ok, Hebrews 4 discusses the New Testament theology regarding the Sabbath and emphasizes that it's faith in Christ:

    Again, you seem oblivious to the context:

    For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

    “So I declared on oath in my anger,
    ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” (Heb. 4:2-3; Psalm 95:11; also in verse 5)​

    They also had heard the good news (gospel), but it was not mingled with faith, therefore, the Holy Spirit swore in his wrath they will not enter God's rest, which is synonymous with the Sabbath. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

    Yes I'm aware of both the text and the context of the verse. A point addressed repeatedly.

    Your right it's a memorial but not for the Ten Commandments, it was and is a memorial of creation week.

    The fourth commandment is expressly for the children of Israel, no such commandment is given to New Testament Gentile believers.

    The Law applied to anyone within the nation of Israel under the old dispensation, indeed the 'do no work' was a gift to all mankind, still is. Go and learn what this means, I desire mercy not sacrifice.

    Always enjoy a good Bible study, I would prefer a better exposition but these days you take what you can get. Enjoying the exchange, God bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. May you grow in grace and knowledge as you seek to honor the Lord of the Sabbath in all your ways, and know the height, width, breath and depth of the one who loved us and gave himself for us. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, in all things, may Jesus Christ be praised.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello brother Mark. Some comments for your consideration below.
    Sorry brother there is no truth in this statement. Where does it say in God's WORD that Jesus is a Sabbath? God's WORD says the SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY of the week, God blessed it and made it a HOLY day *GENESIS 2:1-3; God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is one of the 10 commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 and JESUS is the LORD of it *MATTHEW 12:8. There is no scripture that says JESUS is a SABBATH. He is the creator of the SABBATH and the SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

    All of your examples here are from the SHADOW laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT, not God's 10 commandments. None of your examples were memorials they were SHADOW laws pointing to JESUS or God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. You claim here that you are well acquainted with what Jesus taught regarding the Sabbath, then say you cannot reconcile what your reading in this thread with the New Testament witness then you fail to say what it is you cannot reconcile? Sorry brother this does not really make any sense. Did you wish to explain yourself further?

    You may need to explain yourself further here brother this does not really make any sense either. How is is it as you claim that I am turning one of God's commandments to do no work on the Sabbath into a work of righteousness when the 4th Commandment is God's WORD and not mine? This is simply a false claim and does not make any sense. Would you like to explain what you mean brother?

    Yes I think so as well, perhaps for many it never sank in.
    By God's grace God's WORD is our guide and we should believe and follow it.
    You just need to look at the CONTEXT Brother. John is not writing new commandments as already written in 1 JOHN 2:7-9. What is the CONTEXT?

    1 JOHN 2:1-4 [1], My little children, these things write I to you, THAT YOU SIN NOT. And IF ANY MAN SIN, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    NOTE: The purpose of JOHN'S letter is that we SIN NOT.

    [2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
    [4], HE THAT SAID I KNOW HIM AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

    NOTE: John here is repeating what JESUS says "BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM" * MATTHEW 7:20-23 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YOU THAT WORK SIN (INIQUITY; Break God's LAW). THE FRUITS THAT WE SHALL KNOW GOD'S PEOPLE AND THOSE OF THE DEVIL are the FRUITS of OBEDIENCE or DISOBEDIENCE to God's LAW. This is also emphasized by JOHN further in 1 JOHN 3:3-10 and JAMES 2:18-20; 26.

    [6], He that said he stays in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    NOTE: If we ABIDE in JESUS we will walk with JESUS as he walked. Look at the words of JESUS here

    JOHN 15:3-8
    [3], Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken to you.
    [4], Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.
    [5], I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.
    [6], If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
    [7], If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.
    [8], Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.

    The FRUIT shown here is OBEDIENCE by ABIDING in GOD'S WORD by FAITH.

    [7], Brothers, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you have heard from the beginning.
    [8], Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shines.
    [9], He that said he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness even until now.
    [10], He that loves his brother stays in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
    [11], But he that hates his brother is in darkness, and walks in darkness, and knows not where he goes, because that darkness has blinded his eyes.

    NOTE: The NEW COMMANDMENT is the OLD COMMANDMENTS of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man *DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18 not to hate your brother. The same one's JESUS quotes in MATTHEW 22:36-40 and says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [Love to God and Love to man] HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

    ..............

    CONCLUSION: The CONTEXT of v6-8 is v1-4. The reason JOHN is writting this letter is that we SIN NOT. SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. It is pretty clear that the commandments discussed here are those of LOVE that all the LAW (10 Commandments) and the prophets hang on *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

    Hello brother why are you quoting 1 PETER 2:21 and 1 PETER 2:23-24 and pretend that the scriptures are in reference only to people hurling insults at JESUS and pretend these scriptures have nothing to do with God's 10 commandments and SIN? Then you claim at the end that this has nothing to do with God's 4th Commandment when you know breaking any of God's Commandments is sin? This to me I find curious very curious indeed when the scripture you emmited is v22. Did you leave out v22 on purpose because it does not agree with what you are claiming? Please be honest brother the scriptures read like this when you add the verse back in you left out...

    1 PETER 2:21-24
    [21], For even hereunto were you called: because CHRIST ALSO SUFFERED FOR US LEAVING US AN EXAMPLE, THAT WE SHOULD FOLLOW HIS STEPS:
    [22],
    WHO DID NO SIN, NEITHER WAS GUILE FOUND IN HIS MOUTH :
    [23], Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judges righteously:
    [24], Who his own self bore our sins in his own body on the tree, THAT WE, BEING DEAD TO SINS , SHOULD LIVE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS: by whose stripes you were healed.

    NOTE: Brother it kind of does not say what you presented when you add the scriptures back in you left out. JESUS is our example who did NO SIN. We are to follow in his steps (doing NO SIN). We are to be DEAD TO SIN and LIVING TO OBEDIENCE. This has EVERYTHING to do with God's 4th Commandment as it is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. I hope you did not leave out the scripture on purpose? Pehaps you just didn't see the scripture you left out.

    Indeed but what has this have to do with what you were quoting from with the scriptures of all the Apostles keeping the Sabbath and PAUL keeping the Sabbath after the death of JESUS with both JEWS and GENTILES?

    All the scriptures provided that you have responded to here brother are in relation to JESUS being our example as well as all the Apostles keeping the Sabbath during the life of JESUS and after his death as well as Paul keeping the SABBATH commandment with both JEWS and GENTILES. What you have written above really does not respond to any of the scriptures provided to you.

    Not really brother you seem confused in relation to HEBREWS 4. Here let's look at the scriptures and your claims and the CONTEXT you leave out. The problem your having here is that you have not defined with the scriptures mean when God says "MY REST".

    WHAT REST ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

    HEBREWS 4:1-9
    [1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    [2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And GOD DID REST the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
    [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

    NOTE
    : CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

    [6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    [7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    [8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    [9], So then, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

    Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

    10, For he that is entered into HIS REST (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11, Let us labor therefore to enter into THAT REST (v9 SABBATH REST), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

    CONCLUSION: We enter into God's SABBATH rest by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD (the Gospel). Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD do not enter into God's rest because of their UNBELIEF and sins. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

    continued...[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Actually no brother, you have not addressed this point at all. You claim that MARK 2:27 where JESUS says [27], And he said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath. Is in reference to the JEWS yet the SABBATH was made BEFORE the JEWS ever existed. MOSES was not as JEW either was ADAM and EVE. A JEW is from one tribe of ISRAEL what about the other 11 tribes. Your explanation does not agree with God's WORD and you have not addressed the above.

    Sorry brother where did I ever say that God's 4th Commandment is a memorial of the 10 Commandments? This does not make any sense as I have never said such things.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you as shown in post # 148 linked. Did you miss this post brother or have you chosen to ignore it? As you have not responded to all the scriptures here that disagree with you showing that God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (the Church). If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:7-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. You also did not answer the question asked of you from what you said earlier. Where does it say in God's WORD that the Sabbath is only for the JEWS? Please feel free to respond to the linked post above you have missed.

    Indeed we are in the NEW COVENANT now brother but in the NEW COVENANANT breaking God's 10 commandments is still SIN just like it was in the OLD COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7. If we break ANY of God's Commandment we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not enter God's KINGDOM because they reject the free gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. This is the difference between the Children of GOD and the Children of the devil *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. God's people keep all of God's commandments through faith in God's WORD *REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

    Amen. Your welcome brother. May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
     
  15. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Well thank you, always nice to be greeted so warmly.

    I never said that, I said that Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath and that the sabbath rest is the completed work of Christ. Something no Christian could deny.

    Of course I would love to explain further, thanks for asking. The Sabbath rest is the completed work of Christ and the slavish devotion to the ordinance of the Sabbath as represented in the New Testament regarding the Sabbath are two very different things.

    I would love to explain it if I had any idea what you are talking about. The fourth commandment is no different then the rest of the ten commandments, they have been nailed to a tree.

    Indeed!

    Yes of course.

    Of course we should, lead on.

    Yes, a quote here, not sure what you mean by quoting it but let's see where you go.

    Yes, of course by their fruits you shall know them and should you fail to bear fruit you are cast into the fire. I don't see a problem.

    [6], He that said he stays in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    Another quote and yes, you must abide in Christ and bear fruit, no question.

    I asked you a very specific question regarding what John meant by 'commandment', you answered it, it doesn't mean observing the sabbath.

    Yes it does, so what?

    Yes of course it does.

    What I can't figure out is why you left those quotes in the dust. They had virtually nothing to do with the Sabbath and we have already dealt with the Sabbath controversy, to which you did not respond. Ok, you have another quote, why I'm not sure:

    Yes, familiar with the quote, your point?

    Well yes, God does not want us to sin, I don't see a problem there. Then you introduce this Sabbath thing, which is completely unrelated to the gospel except that it's the completed work of Christ.

    I've left nothing out and I've done this before. I have yet to see a serious exposition and you have failed to make a single point stick.

    I don't know what your talking about, not once did Jesus or the Apostles tell the Gentiles to follow the Sabbath rules of the Sinai covenant.

    None of your posts have responded to the gospel, let alone to the detailed expositions you have been shown. Your trying to get us back to Sinai, we have moved on since then.

    You are forgetting why they didn't enter into the rest promised by the good news in the first place.

    WHAT REST ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

    Finally, you concede a point, the sabbath rest is faith.

    Yes, there remains a sabbath for the people of God.

    Except that it is by faith in the one who loved us and gave himself for us. You keep forgetting that just like you forget the purpose of the Sabbath in the first place.

    You just repeated exactly what I said and told me I'm wrong, the sabbath rest is faith in Christ. Your confused.
     
  16. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Your arguing against several things I would never argue for, and one that is pure semantics. I never argued that Adam or Eve were Jews, where do you get such an idea? What is truly puzzling is you argue that Moses was not a Jew, that is profoundly bizarre. He was from the tribe of Benjamin which makes him a Jew in every sense that makes any sense at all, considering they were the priesthood for crying out loud. Perhaps I'm not addressing your posts to your satisfaction because they are making no sense. I thought this was a Bible study.

    Oh, but I think you did

    The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. (Exodus 31:16)​

    I asked you what it means that God desires mercy not sacrifice, no reply. Then you cite this verse from James:

    For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. (James 2:10-11)​

    Ignoring this:

    Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:12-13)​

    Which leads back to the original question, how does mercy triumph over sacrifice.

    And may God's blessings follow you as you do the same.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Thanks brother. Please consider the comments below addressing your post.
    Of course the Sabbath rest is the completed WORK of Chirst brother but you were applying it to something other then the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is a memorial of creation and one of God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7. If we break ANY of God's Commandment we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not enter God's KINGDOM because they reject the free gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

    Sorry brother this still makes no sense. Scripture? That just sounds like an excuse to break God's 4th Commandment that has no scripture support. Where in God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment is now abolished and we are to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

    I see brother, so you your view Christians are free to lie, steal murder, commit adultery, use God's name in vain and Jesus and the Apostles were all mistaken? You do not believe that do you brother? Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Let's see why.

    Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

    1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
    2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
    3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matthew 22:36-40)
    4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
    5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
    6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
    7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matthew 5:19)
    8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

    Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

    1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
    2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Corinthians 7:19
    3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Romans 2:13-16
    4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Romans 3:31
    5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:6-8
    6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Hebrews 8:7-11
    7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2 Timothy3:16
    AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
    8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Ephesians 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
    9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Romans 7:12)
    10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; 7:7)
    11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Romans 6:23)
    12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Romans 2:23)
    13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Romans 3:19)
    14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Romans 3:31)
    15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Romans 6:1-7)
    16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Romans 6:15)
    17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Romans 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
    18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Galatians 3:24)
    19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Romans 6:22)
    20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Romans 2:4-13)
    21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Romans 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
    22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    John affirms the 10 commandments……

    1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
    2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
    3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
    4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
    5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
    6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
    7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
    8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
    9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
    10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
    11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
    12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Revelation 14:12; 22:14)

    James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

    1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
    2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
    3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
    4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
    5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

    Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

    1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Peter 1:2)
    2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Peter 1:5)
    3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16)
    4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Peter 2:21-22)
    5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Peter 4:1-3)
    6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
    7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Peter 1:2-4)
    8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2:6)
    9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Peter 2:20-22)
    10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Peter 3:5-14)

    God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

    Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.

    1 JOHN 2:3-4
    [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    So it was demonstrated that the commandments John was talking about were those of LOVE on which all the LAW and the prophets hang. Of course it means the Sabbath! WHY? God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is the 4th commandment of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7. If we break ANY of God's Commandment we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not enter God's KINGDOM because they reject the free gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. Can you see your error hear brother?

    Well that has no truth in it at all brother. You purposly left out v22 showing that we should walk as JESUS who is our example who did no SIN. We know SIN is breaking God's LAW. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandment that if broken give us a knowledge of what sin is. You left out this verse brother to try and say the scripture provided was saying something different but when you add the scripture back in it says that JESUS is our example who did NO SIN. We are to follow in his steps (doing NO SIN; not breaking God's commandments). We are to be DEAD TO SIN (breaking God's commandments) and LIVING TO OBEDIENCE. This has EVERYTHING to do with God's 4th Commandment as it is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Can you see your error here brother?

    Well that has no truth in it brother you were caught out leaving out the scriptures that change the context of your claim. When you put the scripture back in that you left out it makes the very point you try to deny as shown above. When you add the scripture back in that you try to leave out the point sticks very well. You have to get rid of the scripture to deny this.

    continued...
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Gentiles are grafted in to become a part of God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:13-27. God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is the 4th commandment of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7. If we break ANY of God's Commandment we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not enter God's KINGDOM because they reject the free gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. Can you see your error hear brother?

    Well that is not true brother. All of your posts have been examined scripture by scripture providing God's WORD that shows what you have provided here to be a false interpretation of the scriptures. You have not replied to much that has been posted to you only sent as a help to you showing how God's WORD disagrees with you. People have tried to help you here brother but you choose to ignore the scriptures provided only in love as a help to you. It is ok brother you are free to believe as you wish. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. God's WORD will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. I hope to see you in God's kingdom.

    Already posted UNBELIEF it was highlighted did you miss it?

    Nope. I did not concede any point the Sabbath rest is not faith. We enter into God's Sabbath rest by faith in God's WORD there is a difference. God's SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY of the WEEK that God has blessed and made holy and commands us to remember *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11.

    Glad you agree. Or as the Greek says...HEBREWS 4:9 [9], So then, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

    Well that has no truth in it either brother

    Not really brother please where is the scripture that says the SABBATH rest is faith in Christ?
    You just ignore all the scripture provided earlier showing what God's rest is from HEBREWS 4 neither will you respond to it and say I am confused yet you have been provided God's WORD showing that God's SABBATH rest is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH.

    WHAT REST ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

    HEBREWS 4:1-9
    [1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    [2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And GOD DID REST the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
    [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

    NOTE
    : CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

    [6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    [7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    [8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    [9], So then, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

    Sorry brother it is not me that is confused. These are God's WORD not mine and they disagree with you. Hope this helps.

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello brother some more comments for your consideration.
    Well that is not true brother. I have provided your quotes and have shown from God's WORD that it disagrees with scripture.

    You argued earlier that God's 4th Commandment Sabbath was only for the JEWS. Adam and EVE were not JEWS either was MOSES or the other 11 tribes of ISRAEL outside of JUDAH. That statement disagrees with God's Word.

    Brother please get your facts right before posting. None of what you have provided here has any truth in it. A JEW is someone from the tribe of JUDAH. MOSES was not from JUDAH. The tribe of BENJAMIN was not the priesthood tribe of the OLD COVENANT. The priesthood was from the tribe of LEVI. Pehaps you need to do a little more research before posting? Sent in all love brother. Can you see your error here? By claiming that the SABBATH is only for the JEWS is the same as saying that the Sabbath is for 1/12 of ISRAEL as JUDAH is only one of the 12 tribes of ISREAL.

    Now follow this very carefully brother. The SABBATH was made at the end of the creation week BEFORE SIN entered the world *GENESIS 2:1-3. At this time there was NO ISRAEL, NO JEWS, NOTHING except for ADAM and EVE and the rest of God's creation. JESUS tells us the reason he made the SABBATH.

    MARK 2:27 And he [JESUS] said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath: Now who should we believe you or JESUS?

    Brother please post the link to where I have ever said or claimed that God's 4th Commandment is a memorial of the 10 Commandments? If not why do you claim I have said things I have never said? This is sad for you. Maybe you are just mistaken. If you are I hope you can apologise for accusing me of things I have never done?

    Indeed and has been shown in the scriptures in post # 148 linked click me that God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Gentiles are now grafted in *HEBREWS 8:7-12; ROMANS 11:13-27.

    Not at all brother. I have not ignored anything. Your post was responded to appropriately. You posted...
    The response provided to you was...

    Indeed we are in the NEW COVENANT now brother but in the NEW COVENANANT breaking God's 10 commandments is still SIN just like it was in the OLD COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7. If we break ANY of God's Commandment we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not enter God's KINGDOM because they reject the free gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. This is the difference between the Children of GOD and the Children of the devil *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. God's people keep all of God's commandments through faith in God's WORD *REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

    I should also add however that God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT is all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD as shown through the scriptures in post # 148 linked click me. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT pormise *HEBREWS 8:7-12. God does not desire sacrifices he requires a heart made new to LOVE and follow him and is why JESUS says "IF you love me keep my commandments" *JOHN 14:15
    Hope this helps.

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  20. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    No, you are making giant leaps in logic here. Yes, the Gentiles were grafted in with the covenants and promises of Israel, that much is true. But your giant leap of logic is that we have to observe some Sinai covenant Sabbath, there is noting in the New Testament suggesting any such thing. I won't bother with the expositions since you have proven immune to the context of your citations.

    We haven't gotten far enough into the exposition in order for an interpretation to be possible, much less necessary. Thanks for letting me believe as I like, I believe the Son of Man is the Lord of the Sabbath and the fourth commandment is subject to him, not vice versa. As a matter of fact we are in God's kingdom, in that the kingdom of God is at hand and the Most High is Sovereign and rules in the affairs of men. But, sure, hope to see you there at the end of the age when Christ returns and rules in power and glory.

    No, just not buying it.

    Hard to believe you honestly think that was an actual statement.

    Oh brother...

    Now if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. (Hebrews 4:8-10)
    The sabbath rest didn't happen during the days of Joshua, they looked for another day. When you enter that rest you rest from your own works, there is nothing close to what you are saying about keeping the Sinai covenant. That is the grossest error yet.

    Now your just arguing the same error in circles.

    Well if you cut and paste without reading the passage I can understand how you would miss it completely.

    For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. (Hebrews 4:2)
    That's where.

    That's not what is says, or even suggests:

    There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God (Hebrews 4:9)​

    You had to change the verse to make it fit what you are saying, that speaks volumes for the level of error here.

    Have a nice day :)
    Mark
     
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