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Hebrews 6:4-8, how do they crucify again for themselves the Son of God? ...

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by this is not my name, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. this is not my name

    this is not my name Member

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    Hebrews 6:4-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

    7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

    Hebrews 6:4-8 4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

    How is it that they put Him to an open shame? what about grace? I know God's grace is undeserved, so He can set limits as He pleases.

    if someone blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and wanted to come back, but did not feel conviction for sin, and felt like the Holy Spirit left them, what hope do they have to return to God? I
     
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  2. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    The part about open shame... see there were Jewish people that got saved... when they sinned they would go back and offer a sacrifice for that sin. In this case Paul said... there is no more sacrifice for that sin. Can Christ die again. So.. if someone went up and offered a sacrifice for sin.. and they were born again.. it puts Christ to open shame. As if Christs death was not enough.

    If you not notice a word "tasted". I am born again and I have MORE then tasted.. tasted.. they never truly repented.. never said YES. Never sold out so to speak. They TASTED.. seen it .. been there done that. And walk away. WHY would they come back? Its not talking about a believer.
     
  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    The writer is addressing those who fall away from the faith and then wish to return. A person enters into the salvation of God by accepting the sacrifice of Christ, the gift of God. Once a person throws that gift away, he cannot return and ask for another one. Doing that would mean the person is seeking to crucify Christ all over again for their own benefit. That is the meaning of the writer to the Hebrews.
     
  4. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Member since 2005 Supporter

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    Question: "Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?"

    Answer:
    Hebrews 6:4–6 states, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.” This is one of the Bible’s most difficult passages to interpret, but one thing is clear—it does not teach that we can lose our salvation. There are two valid ways of looking at these verses:

    One interpretation holds that this passage is written not about Christians but about unbelievers who are convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. They are intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted.

    According to this interpretation, the phrase once enlightened (Hebrews 6:4) refers to some level of instruction in biblical truth. However, understanding the words of Scripture is not the same as being regenerated by the Holy Spirit. For example, John 1:9 describes Jesus, the “true Light,” giving light “to every man”; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. Through God’s sovereign power, every man has enough light to be held responsible. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject such light. The people described in Hebrews 6:4–6 are of the latter group—unbelievers who have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth and perhaps have made a profession of faith, but who have not exercised genuine saving faith.

    This interpretation also sees the phrase tasted the heavenly gift (Hebrews 6:4) as referring to a momentary experience, akin to Jesus’ “tasting” death (Hebrews 2:9). This brief experience with the heavenly gift is not seen as equivalent to salvation; rather, it is likened to the second and third soils in Jesus’ parable (Matthew 13:3–23), which describes people who receive the truth of the gospel but are not truly saved.

    Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” (Hebrews 6:6) as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance.

    The other interpretation holds that this passage is written about Christians, and that the phrases partakers of the Holy Ghost, enlightened, and tasted of the heavenly gift are all descriptions of true believers.

    This second interpretation is based on an alternate translation, found in the KJV and a few others, in which Hebrews 6:6 begins with the phrase if they fall away, with the key word being if. According to this view, the writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away.” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ died once for sin (Hebrews 9:28), and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all.

    In this view, the passage presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again). The absurdity of the conclusion points up the impossibility of the original assumption. This reasoning is called reductio ad absurdum, in which a premise is disproved by showing that it logically leads to an absurdity. The weakness of this view is that the Greek text does not contain a word equivalent to the English if.

    Both of these interpretations support the security of the believer in Christ. The first interpretation, which has a stronger textual basis, presents unbelievers rejecting Christ and thereby losing their chance of salvation; the second, weaker interpretation presents the very idea of believers losing salvation as impossible. Many passages make it abundantly clear that salvation is everlasting (John 10:27–29; Romans 8:35, 38–39; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:4–5), and Hebrews 6:4–6 confirms that doctrine.

    www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html
     
  5. DonaRosita

    DonaRosita New Member

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  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    What about grace? It sounds like you have been taught the heresy that grace is unmerited favor, so you can sin as much as you want.

    NO! That same heresy was taught in the first century and Jude called it turning the grace of God into licentiousness!

    So what is true grace? Grace is the power of God given to us to empower us to not sin. You are given a new nature, because the old carnal nature didn't want to do anything but sin. The Spirit kills the old nature. Christ took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5 That doesn't mean the heresy that we commit sin, but miraculously that sin is no longer sin, and can no longer separate us from God as Martin Luther taught, and that has permeated parts of the church into the fallacy of OSAS. Nor the heresy that we are wearing some invisibility cloak that covers our sin while we keep committing them! No! We are dead to sin, and are no longer in our old carnal nature, but in the Spirit. Romans 6:2; Romans 8:9

    In other words, we must be born again of the Spirit!!!!!

    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

    John 3:4 Sin is lawlessness.

    "Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner." - Martin Luther

    Jesus taught once Jesus takes away our sin, we are no longer a sinner but a SON. John 8:34-36
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

    37 For yet in a very little while,
    He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
    38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
    And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

    Yes, you CAN lose your salvation if you do not endure to the end.

    2 Peter 2:
    20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

    Many are going to hell believing the lies of false teachers. If you interpret scripture based on the preconceived belief you can't lose your salvation, you will twist the word of God until it is unrecognizable that it is even a warning to Christians, but to "some other group" or as in the case of Galatians 5:19-21 you just lose rewards in heaven or here on earth, instead of what is actually means and that is that they WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  8. this is not my name

    this is not my name Member

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    ok, and an example of the prodigal son, is that referring to someone who has wandered, and not fallen away? or who haswent astray, but still has a burning wick, has not completely lost faith, and he comes back to God when the Holy Spirit calls him?
     
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