Hebrews 11 question

[Llleopard]

In the K J V some verses say 'by faith' and others say 'through faith'. Other translations use 'by' exclusively. In Strongs 'by' and 'through' have no number. Does that mean they are not actual words in the orginal texts, and have been inferred? I am wondering if someone with some knowledge in this could tell me if there is any significance to where a 'through' is used instead of a 'by' or if it is irrelevant.

 

[Radagast]

In the K J V some verses say 'by faith' and others say 'through faith'. Other translations use 'by' exclusively. In Strongs 'by' and 'through' have no number. Does that mean they are not actual words in the orginal texts, and have been inferred? I am wondering if someone with some knowledge in this could tell me if there is any significance to where a 'through' is used instead of a 'by' or if it is irrelevant.

I presume you mean the start of Hebrews 11:3 and other verses:

ASV, CSB, ESV, NASB, NET, NIV, NLT, NRSV: By faith ...
KJV: Through faith ... (but "By faith ..." in later verses)

The Greek word is pistis, which means "faith," but it is in what's called the dative form pistei.

So in English we use "by" to translate that dative ei word ending (that's why there's no Strong's number).

And "by faith" is a good translation, because the dative ei ending tells us that faith is the means by which "we understand that the universe was created by the word of God" (Hebrews 11:3).

In Hebrews 11:33, the alternative construction dia pisteōs ("through faith") is used, but I think that has exactly the same meaning in this context: faith is the means.

 

[Monksailor]

Going by this explanation: "The main difference between these two prepositions is, by is mostly (not exclusively-my insertion) used when referring to a means of something while through is used in relation to a process." pasted from: Difference Between By and Through:
I would say that a Christian implements BOTH senses of the words in their FAITH and depending upon which way one is looking at a singular act or even collective of acts it can be viewed as either in most cases, hence the variance that you have picked up.

But I am not one who is buried in volumes and volumes of study of how this or that school interprets with mind-blowing detail differentiation. Even the original Hebrew and Greek peoples had differences in interpretation of the same scripture, I am sure. They were no different that we. Looking for an answer that tickles your ears or fancy? Keep the thread going and you WILL eventually get someone to tell you just what you want to hear. But maybe there IS some helpful truth on this matter. Either one, we ARE saved because of our FAITH in what Jesus has done for us; a FAITH which God has gifted us, Ephes 2:8-9.

 

[Radagast]

Going by this explanation: "The main difference between these two prepositions is, by is mostly (not exclusively-my insertion) used when referring to a means of something while through is used in relation to a process."

Yes, but when it comes to fine details of prepositions etc., we need to look at what the Greek says, I think, not the English.

If we don't read Greek, we need to look at a Bible commentary (or a study Bible) by someone who does know Greek.

 

[paul1149]

The preposition is inferred because of faith's dative case. The dative can indicate the recipient of action: "I threw the ball to Dave", or the giver: "I learned the chord from Harry". This later is called the Dative of Instrumentality, which is what we have here.

So the choice of 'by' or 'through' is up to the translator, depending on his sense of the context.

 

[Radagast]

The preposition is inferred because of faith's dative case. The dative can indicate the recipient of action: "I threw the ball to Dave", or the giver: "I learned the chord from Harry". This later is called the Dative of Instrumentality, which is what we have here.

True, although the Greek Dative of Instrumentality is never used for a human agent.

 

[JohnDB]

We can construct a more similar sentence guys...
People have a difficult time with languages.

Here's an example:

I pulled the bread out of the oven in time by accident.
The "by accident" can also be said "through an accident of luck" and still make sense in English conveying the same meaning.
The key word of "accident" is the means conveying the action occurring.

The whole sentence conveys the meaning that I didn't set a timer with an alarm telling me that I needed to perform an action....nor did I have an internal sense of timing telling me that I needed to pull the bread out.

The "by" or "through" is just there to introduce the agency of "accident".

 

[Radagast]

In Strongs 'by' and 'through' have no number.

So in English we use "by" to translate that dative ei word ending (that's why there's no Strong's number).

If you rely on Strong's numbers a lot, it's worth pointing out that a lot of the Greek meaning is in the hundreds of different word endings.

In English we just have a few endings. In "John climbed trees," the -ed tells us that the action was in the past, and the -s tells us that more than one tree was involved. But Greek has lots more endings, and just looking at the Strong's numbers misses out that richness. It's even the case in Greek that the meaning of one word changes according to the ending on another word.