Hebrews 10 26 if we go on sinning

[ouranopolis]

It seems many on here believe that we can be Christians if we simply believe in Jesus, it matters not if he changes our life or if we live for Him. Indeed a recent discussion, a brother said to me, that basically even if we habitually sin all day we are still saved. So basically if I spend d all day snorting coke and sleeping with prostitutes, whilst in the evening robbing houses and randomly attacking old people I am still a saves Christian.
Does anyone else believe this is ridiculous or can you convince me of this crazy position...

 

[Jeshu]

it is really sad that often grave sin are not taken seriously any more by many Christians. However the fact remains that those who sin will die - Scripture will not speak lies - so to keep on sinning willfully will always bring judgment on the willful sinner in due time.

A heart rebuild by God to love true is what we are after though, not keeping some religious notions about what to do and not do to be saved.

The good thing is willful sin is cut off along the way so those brothers and sisters of ours who keep entertaining sin will get a pruning sooner or later please don't ever worry about that.

Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[Dave-W]

You should here today's sermon from our rabbi. It is from Romans 2 and entitled "My Gospel." It will be up on the Son of David website Thursday.

It was about exactly that.

 

[ouranopolis]

You should here today's sermon from our rabbi. It is from Romans 2 and entitled "My Gospel." It will be up on the Son of David website Thursday.

It was about exactly that.

Will take a look thanks brother

 

[sdowney717]

We are to judge them that are in the church and put them out of it for such sin.

1 corinthians 5
Immorality Must Be Judged
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

 

[ouranopolis]

it is really sad that often grave sin are not taken seriously any more by many Christians. However the fact remains that those who sin will die - Scripture will not speak lies - so to keep on sinning willfully will always bring judgment on the willful sinner in due time.

A heart rebuild by God to love true is what we are after though, not keeping some religious notions about what to do and not do to be saved.

The good thing is willful sin is cut off along the way so those brothers and sisters of ours who keep entertaining sin will get a pruning sooner or later please don't ever worry about that.

Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Very well put, a pruning is such a good description and I do so pray that these dear people hear this. Obviously we all fall but this idea that one may continually deliberatelg sin and still be saved is an offence to God.

 

[ouranopolis]

We are to judge them that are in the church and put them out of it for such sin.

1 corinthians 5
Immorality Must Be Judged
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Amen

 

[sdowney717]

If anyone is born of God, they will be putting off the old man of sin and embracing the new man made according to God's Spirit of righteousness and holiness.
God gives to us the new heart, one that seeks to learn from and follow Christ. If someone is grossly sinning with no sign of repentance, they are not belonging to Him.

Romans 8:16 is something you will know inside of you if God is your Father you will seek to do the things Abraham did, Read John 8:39-41. Actually such a great chapter is there in John 8 that speaks to this very issue. those jews considered themselves sons of Abraham and of God, but Jesus tells them they are sons of the devil.

Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who liveaccording to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

 

[ouranopolis]

If anyone is born of God, they will be putting off the old man of sin and embracing the new man made according to God's Spirit of righteousness and holiness.
God gives to us the new heart, one that seeks to learn from and follow Christ. If someone is grossly sinning with no sign of repentance, they are not belonging to Him.

Romans 8:16 is something you will know inside of you if God is your Father you will seek to do the things Abraham did, Read John 8:39-41. Actually such a great chapter is there in John 8 that speaks to this very issue. those jews considered themselves sons of Abraham and of God, but Jesus tells them they are sons of the devil.

Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who liveaccording to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Amen brother

 

[royal priest]

Someone could regularly attend church, read his bible, and pray all along his way to Hell. If his hope is on those things instead of Christ, then he will perish.

 

[ouranopolis]

Someone could regularly attend church, read his bible, and pray all along his way to Hell. If his hope is on those things instead of Christ, then he will perish.

Agreed. Equally if he trusts in jesus and spends his life as a serial killer he will be damned.
It's a narrow gate

 

[sdowney717]

Agreed. Equally if he trusts in jesus and spends his life as a serial killer he will be damned.
It's a narrow gate

Narrow gate for sure, those who have entrusted themselves to Christ will have been transformed from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

Galatians 5:19-25 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A saved person will have the fruits of God's Holy Spirit in their life.

Luke 6:44
For every tree is known by its own fruit.
For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.

 

[PamCAID]

It seems many on here believe that we can be Christians if we simply believe in Jesus, it matters not if he changes our life or if we live for Him. Indeed a recent discussion, a brother said to me, that basically even if we habitually sin all day we are still saved. So basically if I spend d all day snorting coke and sleeping with prostitutes, whilst in the evening robbing houses and randomly attacking old people I am still a saves Christian.
Does anyone else believe this is ridiculous or can you convince me of this crazy position...

You're right. Folks doing the above habitually really should follow 2 Corinthians 13:5 and "test yourselves"! God sees/knows whether or not we truly believe.

With that said, I'm in that small group of 'crazies' that don't believe Hebrews is our book, therefore Hebrews 10:26 doesn't apply to us. If you're interested, here's an article on that subject. If you prefer videos, there's one at the end of the article.

Pick a Path - Church Age is Different

God bless you either way.

 

[royal priest]

f you're interested, here's an article on that subject. If you prefer videos, there's one at the end of the article.

Pick a Path - Church Age is Different

God bless you either way.

Thank you for sharing that article, but ever since the Fall of Adam, the Gospel of the Messiah has been the only way of salvation for all people.

 

[Marvin Knox]

It seems many on here believe that we can be Christians if we simply believe in Jesus, it matters not if he changes our life or if we live for Him. Indeed a recent discussion, a brother said to me, that basically even if we habitually sin all day we are still saved. So basically if I spend d all day snorting coke and sleeping with prostitutes, whilst in the evening robbing houses and randomly attacking old people I am still a saves Christian.
Does anyone else believe this is ridiculous or can you convince me of this crazy position...

I've been involved in evangelical Christianity for well over 60 years not since getting saved. I've never met any Bible believing Christian who would say that "it matters not if He changes our life or if we live for Him".

In fact - I don't know any non-evangelicals (be they cult, Catholic, or Orthodox) who believe as you say.

Maybe you just run in a different circle - but I have been associated at various times with most groups from Calvinists to Catholics and haven't heared what you say you hear.

All have agreed that it matters a great deal how we live. All have agreed that a person who does what you illustrate is likely not indwelt by the Holy Spirit and is therefore not saved in the first place.

However, I am among those millions of evangelical Christians who believe that a person who has been truly saved and indwelt with the sealing Spirit of God will not and indeed cannot lose their salvation.

If you happen to mean this thread as some kind of refutation of the concept of OSAS - IMO you are phrasing the argument in a bias way and not really wanting a proper discussion of the issues involved in salvation past, present, and future.

 

[sdowney717]

Apostle John is clear without doubt, if you do not follow what Christ says to do, your a liar and do not have the TRUTH abiding in you, which means your not saved, your still of a reprobate mind, your in rebellion against Christ.
Such people are practicing sinners, practicing liars, and they love sinning and lying.
Revelation 22:15
But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
So it is a lifestyle not just an occasional failure as all believers will slip up, but they won't love their sin.
They continue to sin without repentance those who are reprobate in their minds, read Romans 1

As Christ said, why do you call me LORD and do not do the things that I say?
One of his commandments is we love one another, so as John points out, if your disobedient to that one your abiding in darkness and also a murderer, and John says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. We were before our own salvation not particularly pretty clothed in filthy rags of our own righteousness, God has given to us such a great salvation where will those end up who ignore and fail to retain, be mindful of God in their life? Romans 1 reads for the wicked just like a death spiral of destruction, such persons get worse and worse until their doom is complete, destruction in the lake of fire where God destroys both body and soul in hell.

Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

1 John 2:3-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Test of Knowing Him
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.

1 John 3:15
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

 

[shakewell]

It seems many on here believe that we can be Christians if we simply believe in Jesus, it matters not if he changes our life or if we live for Him. Indeed a recent discussion, a brother said to me, that basically even if we habitually sin all day we are still saved. So basically if I spend d all day snorting coke and sleeping with prostitutes, whilst in the evening robbing houses and randomly attacking old people I am still a saves Christian.
Does anyone else believe this is ridiculous or can you convince me of this crazy position...

Your illustration sounds pretty caricatured. A person who is saved through faith alone and who cannot loose his salvation, will be scourged by his Father. Judgement begins at the house of God.

 

[Ron Gurley]

True believers enjoy the major benefit of their SALVATION EVENT: FORGIVENESS of SINS.

Spiritually discern: 1 John 1

Christ-followers continue sin during the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS. But they have been REDEEMED from the PRISON of sin. They are free to NOT sin and follow the comfort and guidance of the permanently indwelling God the Holy Spirit into the will of God.

Hebrews 10 (NASB)....One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient...UNBELIEVER'S CHOICE....Christ or Judgment
aka : Christ's knock or Judgment of Un-believers

26 For if we (one) go(es) on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, (but ARE NOT TRULY SAVED)
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,(ACCEPTED BY BELIEVERS)
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.(un-believers/evil spirit beings)
EXAMPLES:
28 A> Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 B> How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and
C> has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and
D> has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.”
And again, “The Lord will judge His (ALL!)people.”
31 It is a terrifying thing (for an un-believer) to fall into the hands of the living God.

Christ-Follower are NOT JUDGED!

 

[fhansen]

True believers enjoy the major benefit of their SALVATION EVENT: FORGIVENESS of SINS.

Spiritually discern: 1 John 1

Christ-followers continue sin during the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS. But they have been REDEEMED from the PRISON of sin. They are free to NOT sin and follow the comfort and guidance of the permanently indwelling God the Holy Spirit into the will of God.

Hebrews 10 (NASB)....One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient...UNBELIEVER'S CHOICE....Christ or Judgment
aka : Christ's knock or Judgment of Un-believers

26 For if we (one) go(es) on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, (but ARE NOT TRULY SAVED)
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,(ACCEPTED BY BELIEVERS)
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.(un-believers/evil spirit beings)
EXAMPLES:
28 A> Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 B> How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and
C> has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and
D> has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.”
And again, “The Lord will judge His (ALL!)people.”
31 It is a terrifying thing (for an un-believer) to fall into the hands of the living God.

Christ-Follower are NOT JUDGED!

So true believers can sin without being judged, without that sin causing separation between themselves and God?

 

[Ron Gurley]

JUDGE - JUDGMENT

Leviticus 19:15

‘You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly.

Hebrew 4941 ...mishpat ....
judgment
...justice, right, rectitude (attributes of God or man)

but you are to judge...Hebrew 8199....shaphat...
to act as law-giver or judge or governor (of God, man)
to rule, govern, judge
to decide controversy (of God, man)
to execute judgment

judges...Greek 2919...krinō...
5.to judge
1.to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
1.to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
2.to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
1.of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others

judgment...Greek 2920...krisis...
3.judgment
1.opinion or decision given concerning anything
1.esp. concerning justice and injustice, right or wrong
2.sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation and punishment

Luke 6:37
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

John 3:18 ...spiritual POSITION only
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24...spiritual POSITION only
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (past completed aorist

John 5:22
For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,

Romans 14:10
But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

James 4:11
Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it.

James 5:9
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.

JUDGMENT Seat (bema=awards platform) of Jesus the Christ:
Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS

2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV) + 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV) + Romans 14:10b,12 (1-23)

10 For we (BELIEVERS) must all appear before the "judgment (bema = awards platform) seat of Christ",
that each one may receive what is due him for the things done (WORKS) while in the BODY, whether good or bad....

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV)...Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS
1 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ.(salvation)
12 If any man BUILDS on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 his WORK will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it (WORKS) to light.
It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's WORK.
14 If what he has BUILT survives, he will receive his REWARD.(CROWNS)
15 If it (WORK) is burned up, he will suffer LOSS;
he himself will be SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames.(miraculous delivery)

Romans 14:10b,12...BELIEVERSo not judge "one another"
10b ...For we will all stand before "the judgment seat of God".
12 So then, each of us will be accountable to God....
for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

Sin separates Man from God.
Forgiveness of sin of true believers restores fellowship and provides reconciliation. 1 John 1