Hebrew Olam to Aionios & Aidios

[FineLinen]

Have you ever wondered what olam means?

Is aionios the same as aidios?

Question ?

Can you tell us what is before aionios?

“In hope of aionios life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before aionios began.”

 

[Dave-W]

Have you ever wondered what olam means?

I take it as the time space continuum.

HaOlam (ha- means "the") is translated the world or the universe.
L'olam va ed is translated as eternity or forever.

 

[FineLinen]

I take it as the time space continuum.

HaOlam (ha- means "the") is translated the world or the universe.
L'olam va ed is translated as eternity or forever.

HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'

 

[Dave-W]

HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'

That ignores the physical space meaning of the word.

 

[FineLinen]

 

[Andrewn]

Question? Can you tell us what is before agonies? “In hope of aionios life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before aionios began.”

It really is not that difficult. Aionios always means "eternal." The problem is not in the Bible but only in English translations.

Titus 1:2 would be literally translated, "in the hope of eternal life which God, who does not lie, promised before eternal times."

Compare this to 2ti 1:9 He is the one who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not based on our works but on his own purpose and grace, granted to us in Christ Jesus before eternal times,

And also in Rom 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that had been kept secret since eternal times,

Olam is equivalent to the Greek "aion." L'olam va ed is equivalent to "aionios."

 

[FineLinen]

It really is not that difficult. Aionios always means "eternal."

The fact is the adjective aionios rests upon the noun aion which can clearly be demonstrated to be ages (plural).

Language 101 = an adjective cannot hold more scope than the noun upon which it rests!

Secondly, there are exactly 2 passages of Canon that speaks of "eternal", both of which are ONLY in reference to the Aidios God.

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made..."

 

[Der Alte]

The fact is the adjective aionios rests upon the noun aion which can clearly be demonstrated to be ages (plural).
Language 101 = an adjective cannot hold more scope than the noun upon which it rests!
Secondly, there are exactly 2 passages of Canon that speaks of "eternal", both of which are ONLY in reference to the Aidios God.
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made..."

.....Someone who does not know a hithpael from a harmonica or an aorist from an apple who probably could not locate a Hebrew verb or parse a Greek verb has no business even trying to make grammatical arguments in Hebrew and Greek.
.....If one is searching for the truth about Hebrew words where better to go than Hebrew sources. The 1917 Jewish Publication Society, JPS, English translation of the T'nakh, OT is available free online.
Bible (Jewish Publication Society 1917) - Wikisource, the free online library
In the JPS olam is translated "eternal" one time and "everlasting" sixty seven times. That should be the end of it.
Greek has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who better than they know the correct meaning of, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note the EOB Paul uses “aionios” and “aidios” as synonyms, Rom 1:20 and 1 Tim 1:17.

The Eastern / Greek Orthodox Bible EOB — New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: a much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιωνιον/kolasin aionion] but the righteous into eternal life.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/té aidios] power and divinity.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/ton aionon] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB — New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If you choose to read this version I suggest you read the preface which summarizes the scholarship supporting this translation.


[

 

[Der Alte]

It really is not that difficult. Aionios always means "eternal." The problem is not in the Bible but only in English translations.
Titus 1:2 would be literally translated, "in the hope of eternal life which God, who does not lie, promised before eternal times."
Compare this to 2ti 1:9 He is the one who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not based on our works but on his own purpose and grace, granted to us in Christ Jesus before eternal times,
And also in Rom 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that had been kept secret since eternal times,
Olam is equivalent to the Greek "aion." L'olam va ed is equivalent to "aionios."

What some folks don't understand is that words are often used hyperbolically in the Bible. The fact that a word is used hyperbolically does not change its inherent meaning.
.....There were literal foxes in Israel during the time of Jesus but Herod was not actually a fox when Jesus called him one. There were literal stones at the time of Jesus but Simon was not actually a stone when Jesus called him "Petros." There was literal thunder at the time of Jesus but James and John were not actually descended from thunder when Jesus called the "sons of thunder."

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

We know that there is an actual planet earth, the whole world, but the faith of the church in Rome was not literally known "throughout the whole world" at the time of Paul.
These are all examples of hyperbole in the NT.

John 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον/aionion] life.​

In these 2 verses Jesus has contrasted "aionion" with "perish." Anything less than eternal is not opposite of "perish."

 

[FineLinen]

Canon F.W. Farrar: “Aeonian”

“Of all the arguments on this question, the one which appears to me the most absolutely and hopelessly futile, is the one in which so many seem to rest with entire content; viz. that “eternal or aeonian life” must mean endless life, and therefore that “aeonian chastisement” must mean “endless chastisement.”

This battered and aged argument, . . . if it had possessed a particle of cogency, would not have been set aside as entirely valueless by such minds as those of Origen and the two Gregories in ancient days, nor by multitudes in the days of St. Augustine and St. Jerome, nor by the most brilliant thinker among the schoolmen, nor by many of our greatest living divines . . . .

No proposition is capable of more simple proof than that aeonian is not a synonym of endless. It only means, or can mean, in its primary sense, pertaining to an aeon, and therefore “indefinite,” since an aeon may be either long or short; and in its secondary sense “spiritual,” “pertaining to the unseen world,” “an attribute of that which is above and beyond time,” an attribute expressive not of duration but of quality.

Can such an explanation of the word be denied by any competent or thoughtful reader of John 5:39; 6:54; 17:3; 1 John 5:13,20? Would not the introduction of the word “endless” into those Divine utterances be an unspeakable degradation of their meaning?

And as for the argument that the redeemed would thus lose their promised bliss, it is at once so unscriptural and so selfish that, after what Mr. Cox and others have said of it, one may hope that no one will ever be able to use it again without a blush.

I cannot here diverge into a discussion with Bishop Wordsworth and Canon Ryle, whose sermons need some adversaria rather longer than I can here devote to them; but as they both dwell on the fact that people who spoke Greek interpreted aionios to mean endless, I reply that some of the greatest masters of Greek, both in classical times and among the Fathers, saw quite clearly that, though the word might connote endlessness by being attributively added to endless things, it had in itself no such meaning.

I cannot conceive how any candid mind can deny the force of these considerations. If even Origenists would freely speak of future punishment as aionios but never as ateleutetos [without end] –– if, as even these papers have shown, Plato uses the word as the antithesis of endlessness –– if St. Gregory of Nyssa uses it as the epithet of “an interval” –– if, as though to leave this Augustinian argument without the faintest shadow of a foundation, there are absolutely two passages of Scripture (Hab.3:6 and Rom.16:25,26) where the very word occurs in two consecutive clauses, and is, in the second of the two clauses, applied to God, and yet is, in the first of the two clauses, applied to things which are temporary or terminated –– what shall be said of disputants who still enlist the controversial services of a phantom which has been so often laid in the tomb from which it ought never again to emerge? How is it that not one out of the scores of writers who have animadverted on my book have so much as noticed the very remarkable fact to which I have called attention, that those who followed Origen in holding out a possible hope beyond the grave founded their argument for the terminability of torments on the acknowledged sense of this very word, and on the fact that other words and phrases which do unmistakably mean endless are used of the duration of good, but are never used of the duration of evil?”

 

[FineLinen]

Dr. O.B. Jenkins

Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English

Owlam >>Aion >> Aionios

Chapter 17 – Translations of Owlam, Aion, and Aionios – Gods Plan for All

 

[FineLinen]

“End of the eternities!”

What in the world does that mean?

Or does it have some ethereal meaning which is out of this world?

The phrase “συντελεια των αιωνων” means “end of the ages”.

It is translated “ends of the ages” in the Titchendorf, NRSV, Wey, HCSB, LEB, LO, NASB, NHEB, and NKJV.

I have no idea why there are those who translate “συντελεια” as “ends” instead of “end.” This Greek word is not plural but is a feminine singular.

I am unable to find a single translation which renders the phrase as “end of the eternities.”

Biblical Scholarship

Summary: Terms for Eternity: Aiônios and Aïdios in Classical and Christian Texts

 

[FineLinen]

The Greek Words Aiõn and Aiõnios

The Greek Words Aiõn and Aiõnios | Concordant Publishing Concern

 

[Saint Steven]

If you say that sin abounds to an extent not equaled by grace, you again contradict the Word of God. If God could eventually be defeated in the purpose for which He created man, to be an "Habitation" for Himself, "in the Spirit," and if He were to abandon all effort, and permit man throughout the endlessness of eternity to be possessed by the devil, then He had better stop saying that He is God Almighty, All-wise and All-merciful. That would be failure and proof that the devil is stronger than the Christ, that sin exceeds grace, which we know is not true. You will have to tear your Bible all to pieces if you teach such doctrine.

"Well then, as one man's trespass led to condemnation for ALL MEN, so one Man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and right standing with God, and life FOR ALL MEN" (Rom. 5:18, Amplified). How final, how supreme, how absolute is this word! There is no appeal from it. There is no escaping it. There is no disregarding it. There is no discrediting it. God stands as His own witness to this act, and all mankind will eventually be forced to accept the truth of it and God will be glorified through it all!

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Der Alte]

...

“End of the eternities!”
What in the world does that mean?
Or does it have some ethereal meaning which is out of this world?
The phrase “συντελεια των αιωνων” means “end of the ages”.
It is translated “ends of the ages” in the Titchendorf, NRSV, Wey, HCSB, LEB, LO, NASB, NHEB, and NKJV.
I have no idea why there are those who translate “συντελεια” as “ends” instead of “end.” This Greek word is not plural but is a feminine singular.
I am unable to find a single translation which renders the phrase as “end of the eternities.”
Biblical Scholarship [link omitted]

Linking to the biased scribbles of Ilaria Ramelli, the high priestess of UR-land is NOT scholarship.
…..Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios” and “kolasis?”
…..In the EOB, footnote pg. 180

Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).​

= = = = = = = = = =
The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96

Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.​

= = = = = = = = = =

KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

Paul, the same writer, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, in the same writing, below.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity. ​

= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
.....The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone has doubts/questions about the EOB version I suggest they read the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
Quoting different translations does NOT prove/disprove anything.
…..In these 10 verses, Jesus defines/describes “aiōnios” as “eternal” or “aiōn/”eternity.
Jesus used the word “aiōnios” 28 times, He never used “aiōnios” to refer to something ordinary or mundane which is not/cannot be eternal.

[1]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aiōnios]​

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios life” with “death.” If “live aiōnios” is only a finite period, that is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiōnios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[2-3]John 10:28-29
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aiōn] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
(29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
ou mé, vs. 28, signifies in nowise, by no means, never, see note below. In these verses Jesus defines both “aiōnios” and “aiōn” as “eternal” with these three phrases, “[not] snatch them out of my hand,” “never perish.” And “no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.” If “aion/aiōnios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand/the father’s hand”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.​

In these two verses Jesus pairs “aiōnion” with “should not perish,” twice. Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aiōnion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

In this verse Jesus defines “aiōnios” as “eternal” with the phrases “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aiōnios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless at some point, Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

In this verse Jesus contrasts aiōnios life with “shall not see life.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aiōnios means eternal.

[8]John 4:14 But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. Not only this, the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life.”​

In this verse Jesus contrasts aiōnios with “shall never thirst.” Aiōnios cannot mean an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aiōnios means eternal.

[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.​

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aiōnios means eternal.

[10]John 8:51
(51) [αμην αμην/amen amen], I tell you; whoever keeps my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death.”[1]Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death."
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Easter/Greek Orthodox Bible:New Testament.​

● The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
Word Studies in the New Testament, Marvin Vincent.
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.

 

[Der Alte]

...

The Greek Words Aiõn and Aiõnios

The Greek Words Aiõn and Aiõnios | Concordant Publishing Concern

Went to the link and was not disappointed I found the usual UR quoting from/linking to a website maintained by some anonymous person giving his unsupported opinion what the Greek words "aion" and "aionios" supposedly mean.
The anonymous person does not state nor demonstrate any scholastic expertise in Greek. But that does not deter him from cavalierly blowing off the 120-160 years of combined scholarship of the Bauer, Arndt, Danker, Gingrich Greek lexicon.
But this guy is accepted by UR-ites without question, simply because it supports false UR docgtrine.

 

[Andrewn]

..In the EOB, footnote pg. 180
Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).

I agree with what you wrote about "aionios." My comments are limited to the above quoted passage.

1) I don't thing that "Abraham's bosom" is the same as "paradise." Abraham's bosom was the place of the righteous before Christ's harrowing of hell. Catholics used to call this place "limbo" but the word fell out of favor. Paradise / Eden was reopened by Christ after His sacrificial death. He took the repentant thief, there.

2) I don't think that "gehenna" is the same as the "the lake of fire." The latter is for rebellious angels and the resurrected unrighteous. Sinners go to gehenna immediately after death. It is the place of the rich man in the Lord's parable. In Jewish thought, it is the place of spiritual purification for the wicked dead. According to most Jewish sources, the period of purification or punishment is limited to only 12 months. After this the soul will move on to Olam Ha-Ba (the world to come), be destroyed, or continue to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.

 

[FineLinen]

I agree with what you wrote about "aionios." My comments are limited to the above quoted passage.

1) I don't thing that "Abraham's bosom" is the same as "paradise." Abraham's bosom was the place of the righteous before Christ's harrowing of hell. Catholics used to call this place "limbo" but the word fell out of favor. Paradise / Eden was reopened by Christ after His sacrificial death. He took the repentant thief, there.

2) I don't think that "gehenna" is the same as the "the lake of fire." The latter is for rebellious angels and the resurrected unrighteous. Sinners go to gehenna immediately after death. It is the place of the rich man in the Lord's parable. In Jewish thought, it is the place of spiritual purification for the wicked dead. According to most Jewish sources, the period of purification or punishment is limited to only 12 months. After this the soul will move on to Olam Ha-Ba (the world to come), be destroyed, or continue to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.

There are 4 hells, all whose end are the Lake of Theos/ Lake of Fire.

1. Hades

2. Tartarus

3. Sheol

4. Gehenna

 

[Andrewn]

There are 4 hells, all whose end are the Lake of Theos/ Lake of Fire. 1. Hades. 2. Tartarus. 3. Sheol. 4. Gehenna

Hades and Sheol are Greek and Hebrew names for a whole realm. I think Gehenna and Tartarus are sections in this realm for rebellious people and rebellious angels, respectively. I agree that all those end up in the LOF.

 

[Der Alte]

...

There are 4 hells, all whose end are the Lake of Theos/ Lake of Fire.
1. Hades
2. Tartarus
3. Sheol
4. Gehenna

Wrong, wrong, wrong and again wrong. "Sheol" is written as "hades" in the 225 BC LXX and NT. Ge hinnom [valley of hinnom] is transliterated as "Gehenna" in the LXX and NT.