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heaven and memories

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by mama2one, Jun 17, 2021.

  1. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    when people go to heaven, will they have all their memories from time on earth?

    if so, what about people who had trauma & bad memories?
    will they lose the bad memories & only keep good memories?

    or will we all be a clean slate & have no earthly memories?



    thanking in advance for answers
     
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  2. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman Well-Known Member

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    They will remember everything. Will know also the future, the past, everything, everything about anyone on earth or dead, their future, their past and everything about them. As dead they will have no limitation of the knowledge.
     
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  3. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Well-Known Member

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    Great question! My opinion, when we are face to face with God, our memories from Earth will still be there but they won't carry any "weight".
     
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  4. Eftsoon

    Eftsoon Active Member

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    That needs to be clarified a little. Do you mean that:
    1)We won't be involved and caught up emotionally in the memories
    2)They won't have any meaning at all

    I'm not sure I agree with either. I think that they will be significant, but we'll be able to approach them in the right way. For instance, we will remember the trauma, but we will see it much as God sees it,as part of a whole. Even blissful memories will be set in the proper relation to this whole.
     
  5. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Well-Known Member

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    What I wrote was what I could think of as the best way to talk about the situation.

    I agree it's vague.

    I read something years ago on a different forum. It was from a gentleman promoting Universalism (everyone goes to heaven in the end).

    He talked about how in heaven there will be people who had family members who are not in heaven. What then? Will the memory of those family members be erased? Will they still have the memory but won't feel sadness about it?
     
  6. Hmm

    Hmm I'm just this guy, you know

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    For me, it would be impossible not to feel immense sadness if some people I know didn't make it to heaven. So there's only two fixes for this: either I am changed so much that I wouldn't really be "me" which is not very satisfactory or the popular ideas surrounding heaven and hell are wrong, which seems much more likely. And I'm not a Universalist btw!
     
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  7. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    There is no reason to believe that God gives us amnesia, indeed this feels like a deprivation of our human life here on earth.

    Two passages come to mind here:

    "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today." - Genesis 50:20

    "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." - Romans 8:28

    We have no idea what it all will mean for God to put all the broken pieces together, setting all things to rights. We have but only inklings and rough sketches, as "For now we see in a mirror dimly" (1 Corinthians 13:12).

    St. Paul writes, "Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:58) and our Lord Jesus has said, "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." (Matthew 6:20-21)

    What happens here also matters then. That is why, as we recall, our Lord's words concerning the Day of Judgment in Matthew 25, that how we treat "the least of these" is how we treat our Lord Himself. Therefore, "Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to Me" (Matthew 25:40). How each every little piece falls into place, in the end, is unknown. But we are given the promise that it will all fit in the end, that everything will fixed, everything will be set to rights, there will be resurrection, and the renewal of all creation,

    "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.'

    And he who was seated on the throne said, 'Behold, I am making all things new.' Also he said, 'Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.' And he said to me, 'It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.'
    " (Revelation 21:1-7)

    "Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever." (Revelation 22:1-5)

    In the last, God will be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:28), and "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14), even the wolf dwell with the lamb, and the lion shall eat straw with the ox (Isaiah 11:6, Isaiah 65:25).

    The Psalmist has written, "You have changed my mourning into dancing; you have loosed my sackcloth and clothed me with joy," (Psalms 30:11), and indeed our Lord has said, "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted." (Matthew 5:4).

    The comfort of the Lord is not in erasing our memories, eradicating the lives we lived here in this world; but in transforming our sorrow into gladness. So we should allow ourselves to be surprised by hope, that even our sufferings will not have been in vain, but will have themselves been unseen works for the kingdom of God. Allow ourselves to be surprised by hope, allow ourselves to confess that though we see but through a glass dimly now, we shall, in that Day, "but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." (1 Corinthians 13:12).

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  8. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    so we keep our memories then......good & bad?

    however, there are people I know who have had traumatic childhoods or traumatic events happen to them

    they are still hurt, damaged, angry, sorrowful, etc
    even though some have been through counseling

    cont' below
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  9. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    this makes me wonder how in a twinkling of an eye, their sorrow will disappear?

    it's difficult to understand especially when those affected by abuse have difficulty forgiving the abusers
     
  10. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Well-Known Member

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    It is difficult to understand, I agree!

    Can God think of a way to make it all work out? I'm confident He can.

    This idea came to my mind:
    When the Israelites were trapped between the Egyptians on one side and the Red Sea on the other, they couldn't see a way out. God saw a way.

    From Exodus 15
    Then Moses and the children of Israel sang this song ,
    I will sing to God, for He has triumphed gloriously.
    And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a tambourine in her hand. And all the women went out after her with tambourines and with dances.
     
  11. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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  12. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I don't think we have answers to specific questions like this. But we do have our eyes turned toward what God has already done in Jesus: God raised Jesus from the dead. Our Lord died, and was raised up. There is nothing more final in our human experience than the finality of death, it is the most final, the most traumatic, the most destructive thing. There is nothing more final than the snuffing out of a life. And yet, the most final and destructive power in the entire universe thrown against Jesus results in what? The resurrection. Where there was the empty chasm of suffering and death, there is now life full and abundant.

    "Why do you search for the living among the dead? He is not here, He is risen!" (Luke 24:5-6)

    That's the promise from God to the world: resurrection.

    It is in that resurrection power that, in the end, every tear is wiped away.

    And it's not only that mourning is turned to gladness in the renewal of God's grace; it's reconciliation.

    It is easy for us to cast certain people into the "bad" category, and others into the "good" category, and then say in the end everyone gets what they deserve. But such a thought is entirely contradictory to the Gospel in which Christ has made peace between God and man; and into which peace we are called to live, both with one another but also with the world.

    By the grace of God two people are healed and saved: Both the abuse victim, as well as the perpetrator of the abuse.

    "Forgive us our sins as we forgive others their sins against us" is one of the lines of the Lord's Prayer.

    God's mercy does not mean only our sins are forgiven, but that we are called into the life of forgiveness. We aren't merely a reconciled people, but a people of reconciliation. We aren't only the recipients of God's peace, we are also the agents of God's peace in the world by our love and good works done in love.

    If we can begin to understand what peace and reconciliation looks like, here in the smallness of our own lives, we will have a better idea--though only the darkest glimmer--of what the transforming power of God's grace for the world means in Age to Come.

    For we read at the end of Revelation that the leaves of the tree of life are "for the healing of the nations". Such language invites us to imagine not only the future, but also our present, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    No brain zapping for the saints. But they will be able to relegate certain things as "bad memories" not to be dwelt upon by a healthy mind.

    Rev 21: 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

    Job 1 and Job 2 help explain the "reason" for 6000 years of sin-experiment. In a universe of free will beings - right decisions are brought about by a combination of faith/trust and compelling evidence. The 6000 years provides the database of facts , experiments, proofs. Deleting it would mean that another detour into the "sin-option" is still on the table.
     
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  14. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    Matt 13:24 Jesus put before them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was asleep, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and slipped away. [...this metaphor describes verse 37...The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. found in the EXPLANATION of the parable with NO hint of metaphor!] 26 When the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the weeds also appeared. 27 The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28 ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

    So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ [bring the judgement day upon them?] 29 ‘NO!,’ he said, [postpone the judgement day because...]if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’ ”

    This parable, maybe the most often ignored, teaches things against Christian doctrine as well as putting the reason for the postponement of the judgement squarely upon the sinfulness of Christians, those to be gathered into His barn. Peter corroborates this:
    2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of GOD. In verse 12, “hasting unto” means “hastening the coming”, as the NIV has it, “speed its coming”. If this is true, then one can not help but wonder how it is possible that we can hasten the coming of the day of GOD's judgement? What part do we have in it? Well, may I suggest that if it was postponed because of our disobedience (unholiness), then we probably will have to repent of that disobedience and get into all holy conversation and godliness before it will happen. Do we need hellfire preachers back in the pulpits?

    How many holy people totally in accord with GOD will still harbour loving (idolatrous) thoughts about their earthly, sinful, loved ones who chose by their free will to sin the unforgivable sin and caused all this mess?? Not one, right? Everyone will be seen for what they are and none of Christ's good seed will stay loyal to them forever...Matthew 10:36 comes to mind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
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