Hearing songs with seemingly supernatural significance

JohnClay · Sep 9, 2018

Hi this is about experiences I had as an atheist/agnostic that made me think that there could be an intelligent force in the universe - maybe even from the future a bit like Interstellar? Maybe I'll become a liberal Christian one day. (very long post...)

From March 2018:
From my blog:

Several weeks later I was home alone and decided that it was game over for me. I connected some tubing up to my car’s exhaust pipe and sat in the driver’s seat. Feeling restless I tried breathing in from the tube directly. I decided to put the radio on. Playing on the radio was Ben Lee’s “Gamble Everything For Love”. After that was the New Radical’s song “You Get What You Give”.
…….But when the night is falling
And you cannot find the light (light)
If you feel your dream is dying
Hold tight
You've got the music in you
You've got the music in you
One dance left
This world is gonna pull through
Don't give up
You've got a reason to live
Can't forget you only get what you give

I was starting to feel disorientated and didn’t feel very well and I decided to give life another chance. I staggered out of the car. A couple of days later I casually mentioned to my psychiatrist what I had done and was admitted into the mental ward of a hospital for the third time.

Anyway, it happened again

My Maundy Thursday miracle

Often when weird things in my life have happened I have actively embraced them but this time I am suspicious.

Last Friday my sister mentioned a dream she had a while ago that meant that I would become a Christian sometime. She also quoted John 6:44a – “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them….” A day later she asked if anything had happened. I said no. I remembered that that quote was in the song “I am the bread of life”. During the past week I had also listened to a Christian song called “The servant song” on Youtube. I almost never watch Christian music videos in the past few years.

Anyway I went to a church Maundy Thursday dinner with my wife and parents. The first song was “The servant song”. I thought that was quite amazing. Then I thought about the “I am the bread of life” song. I thought it would be impossible for that song to play. There was a different song and then I thought that maybe it is bad to put God to the test. Then there was a video about the last supper and in it Jesus said "I am the bread of life" even though it was in John 6, well before the last supper.

I ended up having communion even though I hadn’t done it in more than 10 years. Then the third and final song was “I am the bread of life”! The lyrics were different though – originally it was “...unless the father draws him...” but in that song it is “unless the father beckons”. It also said “I will raise you up” instead of “I will raise him up”.

Afterwards I talked to the pastor. I told him about the songs and said it was unusual because I don’t really believe in God. I asked him about the story of Samuel and how Eli got him to say “Speak, LORD, for your servant is listening”

Note: I mentioned that the "I am the bread of life" song had different lyrics in the dinner. Well "the servant song" had the normal lyrics but the version I watched on youtube a few days ago had different lyrics. It was the song's writer singing "brother, sister, let me serve you" instead of "brother let me be your servant". So it isn't sexist. In a similar way, changing "I will raise him up" to "I will raise you up" removes sexist language.

From my sister:

I had a dream where I was talking to a pastor at church, who shared an encounter he had where he saw Jesus talking to the Father in heaven. Jesus was asking the Heavenly Father when He is going to give [JohnClay] to Him.

There was a sense of such longing – that Jesus was lovingly longing for relationship with [JohnClay], having foreknowledge that it was the will of the Father for [JohnClay] to come to Him, He was longing for the time [JohnClay] would come to Him!

When I woke up from this dream, Jesus spoke to me about [JohnClay], saying, “I desire oneness with him!” I sensed the loving desire He has for [JohnClay].

Holy Spirit reminded me of how Jesus said in John 6:44 -

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So Jesus was lovingly waiting with such longing for the Father to draw [JohnClay] to Him, that [JohnClay] might become one with Jesus and the Father (John 17:20-23).

This is the first time I've ever said to myself "it would be impossible if that specific song were to play". Also it is the first time my sister had told me about a dream she had about me becoming a Christian. As far as Apophenia goes, I have schizoaffective disorder and I have experienced that kind of thing. But some Christians I know tell me that it definitely wasn't a coincidence. I think the chances of that song being the third and final song would be at least dozens to one (maybe hundreds to one). Also like I said, this is the first time I've had communion in at least 10 years - maybe 15 years. Though I've been going to church a lot recently but I don't have it since I don't really believe in God. And that "I am the bread of life" song only played AFTER I had communion and had completely assumed that it wouldn't play (since the second song was different) The last song that played has the same lyrics that my sister talked to me about ("No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.") [well the version that played was a non-sexist version that I'd never heard before]

About the intelligent force in the universe idea:

I don't know - it is mysterious and often hard to know if it really even exists. BTW the message from the future in "Interstellar" was very intelligent though. BTW this video from "Quantum Gravity Research" I watched a few months ago is interesting how it talks about the future you influencing the past you:
There is also an issue of New Scientist magazine from February that has a cover story about the future influencing the past: it says it is like a Sudoku game and that quantum physics isn't actually random if the future is involved.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...e-how-the-future-can-change-what-happens-now/

BTW there are 7 Lutheran song books with modern songs:

1980 All Together Now
1984 All Together Again
1991 All Together Everybody
1996 All Together OK
2001 All Together Whatever
2007 All Together For Good
2014 All Together All Right

"The bread of life" and "The servant song" are from the same book - All Together Again
http://www.robinmann.com.au/Songs-All-Together-Again-pg23735.html
They are songs 167 and 191.

The bread of life is from 1964
http://www.godsongs.net/2017/04/i-a...-and-i-will-raise-him-up-on-the-last-day.html

The servant song is from about 1977
http://www.godsongs.net/2015/12/servant-song-brother-sister-let-me-serve-you.html

From Futurama - Godfellas: (season 3 episode 20)
http://www.imsdb.com/transcripts/Futurama-Godfellas.html

GOD
Bender, being God isn't easy, if you
do too much, people get dependent. And
if you do nothing, they lose hope. You
have to use a light touch, like a safecracker
or a pickpocket.

BENDER
Or a guy who burns down the bar for
the insurance money.

GOD
Yes, if you make it look like an electrical
thing. When you do things right, people
won't be sure you've done anything at
all.

After talking about the dream she wrote:

Keep sharing what God is doing and any questions,
concerns, prayer requests or curiosities you might have. I
am always here for you! How much more Jesus!!!
I love you and Jesus and your Heavenly Father love you so
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooo much!!! There wouldnt be enough space in this
email if I emphasised how much! Truth is, I cant even fathom
it, cos its more than all the sands on the sea shore if you
were to count them!! So great is His love for YOU!!!
God bless you bountifully,
[sister 1] and Jesus, Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxx........to be continued.......FOREVER!!!

So she was talking about the Father loving me a lot - "beyond all measure".
My other sister has written two books about the incredibly deep love of God the Father. The blurb begins "No one on this earth will ever fully grasp just how deep and rich the heart of the Father is towards them."

So the second song, which I thought was quite insignificant has some significance too.

The second song from the Maundy Thursday dinner, "How Deep the Father's Love For Us" played at the church I normally go to. I remembered part of the song I was going to mention but had forgotten - "Ashamed I hear my mocking voice Call out among the scoffers". This has been true of me to some degree.

Richard T · Sep 9, 2018

The songs and experiences are following you because God is on your case. Not only because Jesus died for you, but also a family member and/or others are pouring themselves out to God asking Him to intervene. I beg you to not frustrate this God given grace over your life. Why not accept a loving God? You have so much to gain and nothing to lose.

As to God speaking through music, the first time I was going to Africa, I was quite a bit anxious, so much so that I went into a pub and the song playing was Toto's, with the chorus "I bless the rains down in Africa." That told me about all I had to know. God bless!

Doctor.Sphinx · Sep 9, 2018

JohnClay said:
Hi this is about experiences I had as an atheist/agnostic that made me think that there could be an intelligent force in the universe - maybe even from the future a bit like Interstellar? Maybe I'll become a liberal Christian one day. (very long post...)

I think your experiences show you there is an intelligent force in the universe. I think those scientists who are honest enough to investigate eventually realise there is intelligence other than man. I have not found this very hard to perceive, but I am biased as I am a Christian. The important thing is recognising who is ultimately the Intelligence behind this, because it is only Jesus, our kinsman redeemer, who can pay the price for our sin.

JohnClay · Sep 14, 2018

I had "The Servant Song (Brother, Sister let Me Serve You)" video playing in the background while looking at the forums
It made me feel a bit weird - a bit uncomfortable but a bit comforting
Lately I've been looking into MLK:
https://jamesattebury.wordpress.com/2017/01/21/the-theological-beliefs-of-martin-luther-king-jr/

King denied almost all of the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith. To begin with, King rejected the deity of Christ, calling it “harmful” and “detrimental”
....he not only rejects the virgin birth, he rejects the bodily resurrection of Christ as well...
...though he denies the literal and bodily resurrection of Christ, he can say that he still believes in it because he redefines it as a spiritual experience...
...King also rejected the bodily and visible second coming of Christ to judge the living and the dead...
"...A physical Heaven and a physical Hell are inconceivable in a Copernican universe..."
....King denied that the cross of Christ was an atonement for sin...
...it is not just the Old Testament that is full of errors, he believed that Christianity borrowed its beliefs from the pagan mystery religions of the Roman world...
....There is no evidence that King ever repudiated his rejection of the deity of Christ, his bodily resurrection, the virgin birth, the second coming of Christ, a literal hell, the cross as an atonement for sin, and the Trinity. He was also, sadly, an unrepentant adulterer who lived a double life...

If I became a Christian maybe I'd be as liberal as he seems to be.

BTW as far as an intelligent force goes - I am thinking it could explain evolution and how unlikely it might be for it to have happened.

JohnClay · Sep 21, 2018

More about Maundy Thursday: (I knew "a new commandment" was related but didn't know the full extent!)
Maundy Thursday - The New Old Commandment - Give Us This Day

...Jesus says to you today: “A new commandment I give unto you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” “Maundy Thursday” comes from the Latin words mandatum novum, or “new commandment,” taken from this verse (John 13:34.)...

Like those other 2 songs, "a new commandment" is a popular old Lutheran song - #65 from 1980's "All together now". I like it a lot but even though it was very appropriate, it wasn't at the service.

I was looking for youtube videos of the song....
Then I came across this one, that doesn't even have any singing but it is making my eyes well up:

This is about the only other song that has made me teary that I can remember: (though a lot more teary)

It also had a link to my childhood - the song had been on a Christian TV ad.

JohnClay · Sep 29, 2018

Me trying to get a Christian guy to go to church on Facebook - my wife have been trying to set the guy and a girl up:

Hi it looks like [girl] wishes you were a "full on Christian". I think you should start going to church. I go every week and I don't even really believe in God. I don't think you should worry about what other people at church think. Well I just thought I'd say something.

Not everyone is perfect. I am trying to be a “full on Christian“ but like I said not everyone is perfect.
I have been trying since before [girl] and I started hanging out
I just had a very difficult experience with church’s and when I find the one that I really like it’s too far

For the other churches in the past - can't you just not talk to particular people? Do they gossip to everyone about you?

I also find it really hard to go to new church’s by myself. And yes they do gossip to everyone about me and my family

You said you believe that the universe is about 6000 years old. Do you also believe that those who aren't saved go to hell forever? I guess to be saved you'd need to put Jesus first. Also Christians are told to be a part of his church. The church is the bride of Jesus

You could talk to the pastors and ask them for advice and say that people gossip about you and your family at church. Though I'm used to talking to pastors

No
You don’t understand what I’ve been through anyway I don’t want to talk about this now

Actually I've been very depressed and suicidal before. I thought I was a creep. It took me a long time to learn how to talk to people to the level I can now. I felt like such a creep that I had a lot of problems with girls. But at the age of 29 I held a girl's hand [my wife]. I've read a lot of self-help material. I think I can understand if you explain it but anyway I'll leave this up to you.
I've also almost committed suicide. While I was gassing myself in my car I heard 2 songs on the radio that changed my mind and then I stopped myself.
Well I hope things go well for you.

JohnClay · Oct 4, 2019

This year's Maundy Thursday service on April 18 was also significant -

The first song was "A New Commandment"! (Maundy Thursday's special song - which wasn't played in 2018) For the last verse or so there was a technical problem - the words weren't displayed on the screen and then the congregation, including me, sung the rest of the words because we knew them. Then they put up the words for the song and we all sang the whole song a second time!

I think the words we sung were the original words ("shall all men know") but the video file the pastor gave me was non-sexist:
"by this shall all know"

Then I also found: "by this shall others know"

Those two main songs from last year also had different versions for the service and when I looked on Youtube related to sexism vs inclusive language.

Lately I've been having theological discussions with a female Anglican priest. Sometimes when reading the Bible for Bible study she uses inclusive language instead of reading the original sexist words.

I had thought the very common theme of the songs having two or more versions (three versions for "A New Commandment") has become meaningful in light of the priest's views. She seems to quite like my book:
An Uncensored Guide to the Christmas Stories

Before that I just thought the different versions were interesting but just a meaningless coincidence.

Also in the service they played this video of John 13:

An odd related thing I noticed in that video was at 7:40 a woman has a moment with Jesus but they say nothing which explains why the Bible doesn't seem to mention it.

This is on one of the Maundy Thursday slides:

All are welcome to commune:
Who are baptized members of the Christian Church;
Who believe that Jesus Christ is their personal Lord and Saviour;
Who believe that the body and blood of Christ are truly present as they eat the bread and drink the wine;
Who believe that they receive forgiveness of sins, life and salvation in this meal.

At some point in the future that might apply to me - but if it had said that I believed Jesus physically rose from the dead then that might not ever be the case.

Then at the end of the service there was a stripping of the table and "silent prayer". Sometimes people end up talking at the end - I can't remember what happened this year.

JohnClay · Oct 9, 2019

On my journey I've come up with the following theory that appeals to me... though technically I think I can only be sure of the belief that I exist....

We live in a retrocausal E8 block universe as sinners with a loving higher power who sometimes uses tough love. There is also a malicious deceptive force that the loving higher power allows to hurt people

It is partly based on Job even though I don't really think it happened.

drich0150 · Oct 9, 2019

JohnClay said:
I had "The Servant Song (Brother, Sister let Me Serve You)" video playing in the background while looking at the forums
It made me feel a bit weird - a bit uncomfortable but a bit comforting
Lately I've been looking into MLK:
The Theological Beliefs of Martin Luther King Jr.

If I became a Christian maybe I'd be as liberal as he seems to be.

BTW as far as an intelligent force goes - I am thinking it could explain evolution and how unlikely it might be for it to have happened.

Two things. if and when God does reveal himself to us openly and without question or in a way everyone can see and know he is God. What do you think 'science' will do? We have a hint in the marvel movie thor. "Science" classifies him as an alien. A trans dimensional alien. Which if you think about it could also work for the God of the bible once there was irrefutable proof. Science will never bend the knee to God it would simply classify or try to classify all known aspects of God in an attempt to demystify him. the thought being God must remain an enigma. as if science can explain it it can not be of God.

But if you think about that for a moment if God id the God of creation then wouldn't he have created everything science can observe and classify? So that leaves the question as to why anyone would think belief in god or belief in science are two seperate things that can not cross paths.

Some may point to evolution verse creationism. What If there was to reconcile all of the creation narrative without changing one word in the bible with all of evolution without changing a time line or time frame in it? All need to be changed is the telling or interpretation not the words of the bible. for instance the primary obstacle is the time line the church puts on the first day of creation. when no such time has been established in the bible. We do have an exit date from eden that if you count back the genealogies happened about 6000 years ago. but that is far as it goes. in that there is no time line between the end of chapter two the garden narrative and the beginning of chapter three which happened 6000 years ago.

Meaning in short God creates the garden and everything in it apart from the rest of creation in it's own time line (which ends alot of the supposed contradictions and the need for a second author) at the beginning of creation while the planet is still being formed (adam and eve are living comfortably in the completed garden) while everything out side was seeded and slowly evolves. a 100 bazillion years or what ever science now says it took for evolution to happen. up unitl 6000 years ago when the genealogies begin.

JohnClay · Oct 9, 2019

@drich0150
Hi this thread is about songs that seem to suggest that an intelligent force is making its presence known in my life.

JohnClay · Oct 15, 2019

I was looking at my friend Reverend T's Facebook page and a month ago her cover photo was almost the same as my YouTube/Google avatar! The mouth and eyes are the same, but the shading and outline are different. There are a huge number of smileys on the internet - it is unlikely that we'd both choose the ones that are the same style but different shading. I thought that the Connect 4 and upside-down Bible things showed that God had a sense of humour. This is also the case here - and I think it's related to God because that's mostly what the Reverend and I talk about.

JohnClay · Oct 18, 2019

There was another coincidence - and it involves a god. About 7 years ago, me, my wife and two other people were looking for somewhere to rent. One particular place seemed perfect - it was a couple minutes walk from my mother in law, major bus stops, other important places, it was a good price, and it had lots of storage, 4 bedrooms, etc. I said to people that if I got the place I'd believe in god. Then we got it and I replied "I didn't say which god I'd believe in". That is about the only time I'd made a statement like that - well during the first Maundy Thursday service I put god to the test then eventually the "I am the bread of life" song played.

JohnClay · Aug 31, 2020

I met up with a liberal Christian friend who has moved quite far away who has studied philosophy and psychology - like me he also had been hospitalised in a mental ward. We were talking about how evidence of God and the paranormal can be seen by skeptics as coincidences (see my "Bible Test" web page). He brought up Jung and "synchronicity" and "meaningful coincidences". Then we got in his car and he put on the radio. The song "Going Gets Tough" was playing:
Then I got out my phone and showed him the first song in my "YT Music" app.... it was the same song... (it was first because I have been choosing it a lot lately - it is groovy) The second song in my app is Lenny Kravitz's "Believe" (I like the song but don't agree with the lyrics). (the other songs I rarely choose like Cat Stevens "Sitting")
We were talking about whether "the tough get going" means they are leaving or getting a move on... it is ambiguous. I told him about the music video and the movie (Jewel of the Nile) it is from yet I hadn't seen it.
Then we talked for a while - I talked about the two songs that played when I was trying to kill myself then eventually he started the car and we left.
I pointed out that we were talking about coincidences first before we turned the radio on. There were some other songs that had relevance though the mix was about the 80s and my childhood involved the 80s.
Previously all of my coincidences were related to God or the meaning of life...

JohnClay · Oct 17, 2020

In May 6, 2020, I came across a YouTube video where Rick and Morty genuinely seem to become Christians:
I posted the excerpt on Facebook and an atheist told me that the Rick and Morty episode it came from had just been released... so I watched it and saw that Rick and Morty didn't stay Christians after all.

For some reason at the moment the YouTube transcript/subtitles is only Korean...

Anyway the first few times I watched the YouTube excerpt I thought God might be talking to me through this....

Today I was checking out Netflix and saw that I was up to S4E6 (the episode with the Christian excerpt) and I was up to about 7:20...

As I watched from that point in time I mostly had no memory at all of the episode until at about 15:45 which is a few seconds before the Christian part of the episode.... the early parts are some of the only parts in Rick and Morty that I'm not familiar with... perhaps because that episode is incredibly disorganised.

Hearing songs with seemingly supernatural significance

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