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Heard the name "Enoch" in my dream...

Discussion in 'Sign Gifts' started by Jooney86, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. Jooney86

    Jooney86 Newbie

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    I just thought I would post this to share with you guys and girls and maybe get some kind of answer..

    ...But I remember having a crazy dream one night. It was nothing spiritual, but there was a point (i think a little before I woke up) when I heard the name "Enoch". I have heard the name mentioned before in the Bible, but this was just too random. I kept asking myself why I could possibly have heard this name if I have probably only said it once or twice in my whole life! IDK I just thought it was strange. The person that said it said His name was "Enoch".

    I look forward to some replies! TY!
     
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  2. Miss79

    Miss79 Junior Member

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  3. Jeff4life

    Jeff4life Guest

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    These are the scriptural references to Enoch,

    Bible and Library Search: enoch

    I don't know which one would be relevant so I just gave you the link.
     
  4. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    Enoch is one of the only two people in scripture to be taken up into Heaven without dying. The other is Elijah. I don't know why you would hear it, or who said it, but as far as the book of Enoch goes, it is not an inspired work. It completely contradicts scripture in some places and cannot be trusted. God bless.

     
  5. 3rdHeaven

    3rdHeaven Truth Seeker

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    Where does it contradict scripture? Give one example please.

    Also, explain why St Jude quotes several verses from the Book of Enoch.
     
  6. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    Firstly, it says Jude is quoting Enoch, not the book of Enoch. That's a big difference. This is what Jude says:

    Jude 1:14-15

    It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,

    to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

    And this is what Enoch 1:9 says:

    "And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly: and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

    As you can see it is not an exact quote. You might say close enough, but close enough doesn't cut it. If you want to accuse Jude of bad quoting, then you are also accusing the Holy Spirit. The more likely possibility is that this statement is something handed down from Jewish oral tradition, and it also ended up in the book of enoch. You also have to remember that Jude was inspired by the Holy Spirit. He could easily quote Enoch directly, just like Moses quoted Adam and Eve without being there. The main point is that just because this quote appears in both texts doesn't mean there is a connection or that Enoch is inspired.

    There are a few errors in the book of Enoch. For instance, Enoch is recorded in Genesis to be born about 622 years after the creation of the world. He lived 365 years before God took him.

    Genesis 5:23-24

    23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.


    Yet, the book of Enoch gives an account of Noahs birth. It has Enoch telling Methuselah ""'And now, my son, go and announce to thy son Lamech, that this son who is born is really his, and that this is not a falsehood.'"

    And when Methuselah had heard the words of his father Enoch -- for he had shown him everything that was secret -- he returned, after his having seen him, and called the name of that son Noah, for he will make glad the earth for all destruction"

    The problem with this account is that Noah was born around 1056, about 70 years after Enoch departed, according to Genesis.

    The book of Enoch has angels marrying women on Earth, but scripture says:

    For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven"

    The Book of Enoch states that sin came from the intermixing of angel seed and man's seed.

    The bible says sin came into to the world by the sin of Adam:

    Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned"

    Chapter 22 of the Book of Enoch has the realm of the dead divided into four areas: 1) Righteous martyrs, such as Abel, 2) The righteous who were not martyrs, 3) sinners who died without suffering the consequence of their sin, and 4) sinners who had suffered as the result of their sin

    Of group 4 Enoch says this: "but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgment nor shall they be raised from thence"

    This contradicts the bible in two places.

    1. The bible says the realm of the dead is divided into two, not four: Luke 16:19-31

    2. The bible also says that all will raised and face judgement

    "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth --those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation"

    It also contradicts itself:

    Enoch 6:7-8 gives a list of the leading fallen angels: "And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel."

    The list repeats:

    Enoch 69:2-3, "And behold the names of those angels [and these are their names: the first of them is Samjaza, the second Artaqifa, and the third Armen, the fourth Kokabel, the fifth Turael, the sixth Rumjal, the seventh Danjal, the eighth Neqael, the ninth Baraqel, the tenth Azazel, the eleventh Armaros, the twelfth Batarjal, the thirteenth Busasejal, the fourteenth Hananel, the fifteenth Turel, and the sixteenth Simapesiel, the seventeenth Jetrel, the eighteenth Tumael, the nineteenth Turel, the twentieth Rumael, the twenty-first Azazel."

    The first list has nineteen names, the second has twenty-one, and many are very different.

    So, while I understand the book of Enoch is interesting, it was not inspired by God. No Christian should be looking to it as any sort of truth. As with everything Satan does, it contains half-truths (the bait) and then outright lies.



     
  7. Miss79

    Miss79 Junior Member

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    There are many contradictions in the book of Enoch. The Bible is the right book.
     
  8. parsley

    parsley .

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    When people hear a word in their dream, sometimes it seems a suggestion from God for the person to start researching on the topic. It is not always a quick answer, but a body of work and collection of thoughts that God wants to convey to you.

    Which means... we can give you ideas, but you can own your dream and take this further.

    Whether Enoch is completely accurate/spiritual/biblical or not is probably not related to what God wants to show you. If you look back through posts here, sometimes the words are secular -- [Hitler, Tennessee, Delilah, Fannie Mae] -- and relating to what's going on in current events. Just start digging and see what you discover.
     
  9. 3rdHeaven

    3rdHeaven Truth Seeker

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    Quotes are rarely identical in the bible and you should know that. The above does not prove Jude was quoting Enoch or his writing, most scholars agree he was quoting the book. The best refute I've read is that many writers including Paul often used other writings outside of their own to make a point. Paul often referenced pagan practices, for example the baptism of the dead to build a deeper point.

    Your argument against Enoch is weak and refuted many times by scholars. No doubt Jude was quoting from Enoch's writing. The only question is why?
     
  10. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    My argument has not been refuted, and you only addressed one part of it. The fact that the Book of Enoch contradicts scripture is undeniable. On that basis alone it could not be inspired.

    Just because quotes are not always identical does not dispute my point. The point being, that just because the quotation that jude was quoting happens to be in the Book of Enoch doesn't mean that is what jude was quoting from. You might have a case if the quote was identical, but since it isn't, it is more than plausible it came from somewhere else, like oral tradition. We know that legitimate sayings end up in illegitimate works. The gospel of thomas is an example of that.

     
  11. 3rdHeaven

    3rdHeaven Truth Seeker

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    Again, it is very clear to most that Jude was quoting from a book of Enoch, you are aware there are different translations available today and there may have been others not available today?

    That Jude was quoting from the book of Enoch is pretty much agreed by most scholars.

    There is the question of why would Jude be quoting from a book that was regarded noncanonical, but there was no canon then.

    Also worth noting, in all fairness, Jude was reluctantly added to the cannon. So was the gospel of John too. Imagine if John's gospel was not included. All was decided by men.

    I see no issues with the book of Enoch, if we start rejecting books over discrepancies, we would not have many books in the bible left. If we reject Enoch then we need to reject Jude too. Because Jude also quotes from the Assumption of Moses too.

    It is a known fact that many of the writers borrowed from apocryphal writings,common practice because back then it was before a bunch of bishops got together to vote on which books to include and which to reject.

    Shall we introduce that II Peter borrowed from Jude next?
     
  12. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    The agreement of scholars isn't what points us towards truth. The majority of scholars, historians, etc, think the bible is nonsense. What is called for here is discernment. We don't evaluate the authenticity of a work based on what scholars say, but rather we hold it to the standard laid out in scripture.

    The standard is, if it teaches a different truth, we are to reject it. The book of Enoch contradicts scripture, and even contradicts itself. Therefore, it is not inspired and not from God.

    You don't see a problem with that but I do. I see a definite problem with including lies alongside Gods truth, which can only lead to error. Some people seem very attached to the book of enoch and would rather pick apart the bible to try to justify it then honestly evaluate whether it is inspired or not. The attitude it cultivates in Christians alone is enough to make me reject it.

    We have to discern all things, and we have to be very careful not to let Satan in through a back door. You say the bible was compiled by men. Sure, and it was also written by men, but it was inspired by God. Do you think God had nothing to do with compiling the major vehicle of His gospel for the last 2000 years? Come on..

    In regards to Jude, you might think it is obvious he is referring to such and such work, but it isn't obvious. It doesn't mention them by name or quote them directly. It could have easily been from an oral tradition, or inspired by the Holy Spirit. Again, how do you think Moses wrote Genesis? It's quite a leap to go from there to saying Enoch or anything else is inspired. It obviously isnt for the reasons I outlined.
     
  13. 3rdHeaven

    3rdHeaven Truth Seeker

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    Well I guess you are free to believe whatever you want, just don't be surprised when you find not every one agrees with you.

    Jude, ll Peter, Hebrews and St John almost did not make it in the bible for the very reasons you mentioned. I suppose by your logic if the Book of Enoch was included in the Bible we would not be having this discussion, but we might be in reverse if St John as considered the apocrypha work.
     
  14. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    In my logic, God was involved in compiling the bible, so I don't believe there is any other conversation to have about it. Again, Enoch totally contradicts scripture, and should be excluded just on that basis. Are you saying 2 Peter, Hebrews and John contradicts other scriptures? If so, please name the contradictions.

     
  15. 3rdHeaven

    3rdHeaven Truth Seeker

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    Wait a minute, it seems to me you don't even know how we got the final cannon lol.

    Perhaps you should read up on that first.
     
  16. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    I have read the history, and yes I know those books were disputed, but it was because of doubts about authorship. You seemed to indicate they contradicted scripture. Are you saying that is the case, or no? If not, then there is no comparison to Enoch which does contradict it.


     
  17. StephenS

    StephenS New Member

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    Even though this post is a few years old, I wanted to share a dream I had last night which led me to search Google to see if others had similar dreams.

    The dream was ordinary at first and seemed to take place at some kind of church function (there was food and people at tables and about the room talking to one another). I was sitting on a couch and a small toddler came up to me with a cup of Italian Dressing in his hand making a complete mess. He got it all over my shirt and I remember thinking, "My wife will get a good laugh once she sees me".

    I got up to get some paper towels at a table across the room when a song started playing (or the worship band was leading). Can't remember the song very well but it was praising Jesus for His character/authority. The words flooded over me and I fell to my knees in worship – feeling the presence of God in a powerful way.

    Then the name Enoch started to be spoken repeatedly – almost like a crowd shouting a players name at a game. The repetitive "Enoch" overpowered everything else, and then I woke up. My first thought was, "Who was Enoch? Wasn't he the guy who didn't experience death?" So I researched it and verified it was Noah's great grandfather who pleased God and was taken to heaven (raptured) without experiencing death.

    I thought this was so strange that I'm wanting to see if anyone else is having a similar dream. To go from praising God through song in my dream to chanting Enoch is a VERY odd transition.
     
  18. Lazarusty

    Lazarusty New Member

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    Enoch didn't die but was taken up into heaven. Perhaps God is saying that's what is going to happen to you , that you are like Enoch Jooney86 and StephenS.
     
  19. StephenS

    StephenS New Member

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    Thanks. I'm not much on trusting my dreams regarding what God wants me to do (or what will happen to me) – that's what God's word is for ;-) – however, the dream was so odd, and random, and powerful that I felt others may possibly be experiencing something similar... Primarily because of it's relevance with the end-times and how so much Bible prophecy is being fulfilled in our lifetimes! As someone else above shared – sometimes God gives us dreams so we will investigate and learn about something that's important to Him. Maybe that's the case here. I have sensed His Spirit urging the church to be more Holy (as He is Holy); to "step out" of the world so-to-speak and follow Jesus with more fervency and passion.

    Maybe it's because His return is very close! In either case, that is how He wants us to live anyway – dependent and surrendered followers, resting on His grace and not pursuing all the material comforts or sensations in the world today. Living for Him and speaking His truth with boldness and in love.
     
  20. theresa l nelson

    theresa l nelson New Member

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