Health/nutrition talk

[bill5]

Didn't know if there would be any interest in this generally, thought I'd toss is out.....

Posted this elsewhere, and as I said there, seems to me a surprising # of people don't understand the basics of sugar (for the longest time I didn't either)........thought this was a good recap FWIW:

What Is the Difference Between Sucrose, Glucose & Fructose?

 

[bill5]

Hedonists!

 

[bill5]

I'll give this a last try.....one thing I've noticed is how surprising some things are in things like salt or saturated fat, 2 things I need to avoid. For ex:

One (large) egg roll (at least the frozen ones I buy) has less saturated fat than one tiny bit-sized piece of dark chocolate.

One slice of ordinary cheese has more salt than a whole large fistful of chips. It's not even close.

etc

 

[Open Heart]

Didn't know if there would be any interest in this generally, thought I'd toss is out.....

Posted this elsewhere, and as I said there, seems to me a surprising # of people don't understand the basics of sugar (for the longest time I didn't either)........thought this was a good recap FWIW:

What Is the Difference Between Sucrose, Glucose & Fructose?

Excellent, excellent article. We have been duped for so long. Fructose is a poison. It makes us fat, and leads to metabolic syndrome, heart disease, diabetes, etc. And yet we've put it into virtually all our processed foods. No wonder the Western diet is so dangerous.

 

[bill5]

? Fructose (and sucrose) aren't inherently bad or do any of those things unless one ingests too much...which a sad # of people do. Personal accountability and all that. Which I think (I hope) is at least part of your overall point...and yeah food makers have put tons of sugar, not to mention salt and fat, in so many things...but again, it's up to the consumer to read the labels and eat responsibly. They only do so because it sells.

 

[Open Heart]

? Fructose (and sucrose) aren't inherently bad or do any of those things unless one ingests too much...which a sad # of people do. Personal accountability and all that. Which I think (I hope) is at least part of your overall point...and yeah food makers have put tons of sugar, not to mention salt and fat, in so many things...but again, it's up to the consumer to read the labels and eat responsibly. They only do so because it sells.

You are wrong. Fructose is a poison. In small doses it doesn't hurt. Heck, we consume small doses of arsenic all the time. So if the only place we ever got fructose from was fresh fruit, we'd be fine. But we add it to almost everything we eat. We are overdosing. Even if we stay away from table sugar, we still get it in all our processed foods.

 

[bill5]

You are wrong. Fructose is a poison.

Saying "fructose is a poison" is like saying "Cucumbers are a great method of transportation." It makes no sense. If fructose was a poison, the human race would have died off long ago. I can only hope you're speaking symbolically, and of course eating too much of anything is bad. Did you know you can die from drinking too much water? Based on your logic, then, water is a poison.

Even if we stay away from table sugar,

Table sugar is not fructose. You might want to read the article...

 

[Open Heart]

If fructose was a poison, the human race would have died off long ago. I can only hope you're speaking symbolically, and of course eating too much of anything is bad.

Fructose is poison in the same sense that tobacco is a poison. With Fructose, the small amounts that we get in whole fruits, combined with the large amounts of water and especially the fiber, are not enough to harm us. But when we start using table sugar deserts, when we drink soft drinks every day, when we put high fructose corn syrup in absolutely all processed food like breads, we are overdosing. Instead of being metabolized like Glucose, it gets stored as fat. Fructose is THE cause in the upswing in Metabolic Syndrome: high blood pressure, strokes, heart disease, diabetes, sleep apnea, etc. These things kill, just as surely as lung cancer kills.

 

[Greyy]

Fructose is poison in the same sense that tobacco is a poison.

No, fructose is not a poison. Smoking tobacco releases hundreds of different molecules which alter our health and are carcinogens.

Fructose is a single molecule, which glucose becomes in metabolism.

With Fructose, the small amounts that we get in whole fruits, combined with the large amounts of water and especially the fiber, are not enough to harm us. But when we start using table sugar deserts, when we drink soft drinks every day, when we put high fructose corn syrup in absolutely all processed food like breads, we are overdosing.

Consuming and injecting otherwise harmless substances in great quantites can produce harm. There is a huge difference between drinking concentrated fructose in obscene dosages and having a banana.

Instead of being metabolized like Glucose,

Glucose and fructose are both metabolized in much the same way. Getting your calories from either source has nothing to do with weight gain. That is, getting the same energy from glucose or fructose does not cause weight gain or lose.

it gets stored as fat. Fructose is THE cause in the upswing in Metabolic Syndrome: high blood pressure, strokes, heart disease, diabetes, sleep apnea, etc. These things kill, just as surely as lung cancer kills.

If you consume excessive amounts of calories by eating the liquid candy that they call soda, then yes, you will develop all kinds of health problems. Sugar saturated water has the potential to increase our caloric intake that we wouldn't have with normal foods.

 

[bill5]

Fructose is poison in the same sense that tobacco is a poison.

No it's not, but you're clearly not listening, so not going back n forth, done w/this

 

[Open Heart]

Fructose is a single molecule, which glucose becomes in metabolism.

Fructose does not become glucose. It is not used for energy -- rather than being metabolized by the pancreas (insulin) is is processed by the liver the same way alcohol is, and is stored as fat, especially in the abdominal area. It is the cause of diabetes, heart disease, and other ailments of metabolic syndrome. IOW it kills just as surely as tobacco kills.

 

[Greyy]

Fructose does not become glucose.

I said glucose becomes fructose. But you are wrong on both accounts. When glucose is used to produce energy, it is converted into fructose. But it is also true that fructose can become glucose as well. Fructose to glucose is a vital component of maintaining blood sugar.

It is not used for energy.-- rather than being metabolized by the pancreas (insulin) is is processed by the liver the same way alcohol is, and is stored as fat, especially in the abdominal area. It is the cause of diabetes, heart disease, and other ailments of metabolic syndrome. IOW it kills just as surely as tobacco kills.

You aren't making a bit of sense. Fructose is used for energy. Fructose and glucose are absorbed by cells. Glucose is phosphorylated and then changed to fructose 6-phosphate. Fructose is phosphorylated by cells to become fructose 6-phosphate as well. You don't get energy until you convert glucose to f6p.

I don't know how you imagine the body works, but glucose is metabolized by cells throughout the body. The primarly role of the panceas in this is the secretion of hormones, while the liver maintains appropriate glucose levels in the blood so that each cell has access to glucose and metabolizes it within them. The liver does this, ironically, by often converting fructose to glucose in gluconeogenesis to create glucose from lipids and proteins.

It sounds like you have come across some complete junk science. You are stating things that violate very basic fundamental principles of biochemistry. This is one of the problems today, people state junk science as if it is true, even if it is contrary to basic real science.

 

[Open Heart]

I said glucose becomes fructose. But you are wrong on both accounts. When glucose is used to produce energy, it is converted into fructose. But it is also true that fructose can become glucose as well. Fructose to glucose is a vital component of maintaining blood sugar.



You aren't making a bit of sense. Fructose is used for energy. Fructose and glucose are absorbed by cells. Glucose is phosphorylated and then changed to fructose 6-phosphate. Fructose is phosphorylated by cells to become fructose 6-phosphate as well. You don't get energy until you convert glucose to f6p.

I don't know how you imagine the body works, but glucose is metabolized by cells throughout the body. The primarly role of the panceas in this is the secretion of hormones, while the liver maintains appropriate glucose levels in the blood so that each cell has access to glucose and metabolizes it within them. The liver does this, ironically, by often converting fructose to glucose in gluconeogenesis to create glucose from lipids and proteins.

It sounds like you have come across some complete junk science. You are stating things that violate very basic fundamental principles of biochemistry. This is one of the problems today, people state junk science as if it is true, even if it is contrary to basic real science.

I'd appreciate a link that cites how fructose and glucose go back and forth. You do sound knowledgable,but I have to be careful who I listen to online. If there is a chance to increase my knowledge, I will of course take it.

 

[Greyy]

I'd appreciate a link that cites how fructose and glucose go back and forth. You do sound knowledgable,but I have to be careful who I listen to online. If there is a chance to increase my knowledge, I will of course take it.

Sure, here is a link on glycolysis, the process of breaking down glucose to produce energy:
Glycolysis - Wikipedia

Here is a link on gluconeogenesis, where cells produce glucose from non-carbohydrate sources:
Gluconeogenesis - Wikipedia

There is, sadly, a ton of bogus health information out there. Some of it sounds good on a vague philosophical level, but totally violates basic biochemistry. One of the great misconceptions I have noticed deals with the lack of understanding of food and how it is interrelated. Our bodies, through well understood processes in biochemistry, have the ability to break down all types of molecules and form other ones based on needs.

We know the various processes in which the human body consumes food and breaks it down into energy and forms the different molecules it needs. Jesus fasted for 40 days, yet without eating, his body was able to break down its own fats and proteins to provide the molecules it needed for cells to produce the energy needed to remain alive.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to look for scientifically backed answers to them.

I will point out that the human ability to live day by day constantly supplying itself with what is needed from the food it consumes is unrelated to the health risks caused by long term diet and lifestyle.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I have stopped ingesting fructose as much as I can. I even buy Heinz "Just Ketchup". Which uses sugar. Yes I know we need to be careful regarding sugar but I would rather use sugar in my condiments.

 

[Open Heart]

Sure, here is a link on glycolysis, the process of breaking down glucose to produce energy:
Glycolysis - Wikipedia

Here is a link on gluconeogenesis, where cells produce glucose from non-carbohydrate sources:
Gluconeogenesis - Wikipedia

There is, sadly, a ton of bogus health information out there. Some of it sounds good on a vague philosophical level, but totally violates basic biochemistry. One of the great misconceptions I have noticed deals with the lack of understanding of food and how it is interrelated. Our bodies, through well understood processes in biochemistry, have the ability to break down all types of molecules and form other ones based on needs.

We know the various processes in which the human body consumes food and breaks it down into energy and forms the different molecules it needs. Jesus fasted for 40 days, yet without eating, his body was able to break down its own fats and proteins to provide the molecules it needed for cells to produce the energy needed to remain alive.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to look for scientifically backed answers to them.

I will point out that the human ability to live day by day constantly supplying itself with what is needed from the food it consumes is unrelated to the health risks caused by long term diet and lifestyle.

Thank you.

 

[rhawk]

I even buy Heinz "Just Ketchup". Which uses sugar. Yes I know we need to be careful regarding sugar but I would rather use sugar in my condiments.

If you mean you LIKE sugar in them vs a choice between sugar or something like Fructose... They do make unsweetened Ketchup. One example: Westbrae Natural Organic Unsweetened Ketchup -- 13 fl oz - Vitacost

Honestly, I LOVE sugar and breads.... Ahh but I miss them. I had not gone to the doctor for a checkup in over 6 years and in Feb decided to let them do a blood test, which is good as I was way up in diabetic now. Something like a 298 glucose and an A1C that showed wildly high as well. Freaked me out. I had a friend who ignored her diabetes in the 80's and one day did not show up for work.... She had gone into a diabetic coma and died. Now that I am diabetic, you bet I did a 180 on my eating habits. Since Feb I am down from about 215lbs to 156lbs this morning, and I have had nothing with any sweeteners in it since Feb and very little carbs. I am mostly living off raw veggies and some cooked veggies and some meats, spices and eggs. I do allow myself 1 slice of 100% whole wheat toast on Sunday breakfast with my eggs. I have plunged my glucose and A1C down on my last diabetes doc visit so much (below 100 glucose and about 7 A1C from memory) and I have been taken off my diabetes meds now. I am starting to get used to the foods and lack of fun sugars, juices and bread (oh, and pizza). Also I do like being a 34" waste for the first time in about 25 years... Ahh but I ramble off topic here with the Diabetes.... My point was on the Ketchup.

 

[Open Heart]

If you mean you LIKE sugar in them vs a choice between sugar or something like Fructose

Fructose is a sugar.