Health Message

[EastCoastRemnant]

I have a question for you all. Ever since I was convicted of the Sabbath truth, my wife and I have kept the dietary laws. As I became aware of the health message of vegetarianism and now veganism, I prayed for light and conviction upon this. Nothing ever came.... the only thing that would come to me was that the Adventist health message isn't found in the Bible. Jesus, our example in all things, was not a veggie and never even hinted at it.

I have heard various SDA ministers use erroneous Biblical quotes and false suppositions in trying to bolster what was given by sister White. I have been told by more than one Adventist that I am in sin by keeping the dietary laws.

What do you guys think about this? I truly respect the core group we have on here and wanted a non judgemental conversation to explore these things.

Thanx...

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

I have a question for you all. Ever since I was convicted of the Sabbath truth, my wife and I have kept the dietary laws. As I became aware of the health message of vegetarianism and now veganism, I prayed for light and conviction upon this. Nothing ever came.... the only thing that would come to me was that the Adventist health message isn't found in the Bible. Jesus, our example in all things, was not a veggie and never even hinted at it.

I have heard various SDA ministers use erroneous Biblical quotes and false suppositions in trying to bolster what was given by sister White. I have been told by more than one Adventist that I am in sin by keeping the dietary laws.

What do you guys think about this? I truly respect the core group we have on here and wanted a non judgemental conversation to explore these things.

Thanx...

What do you think? What is your belief on this matter?

 

[overcomer]

I have a question for you all. Ever since I was convicted of the Sabbath truth, my wife and I have kept the dietary laws. As I became aware of the health message of vegetarianism and now veganism, I prayed for light and conviction upon this. Nothing ever came.... the only thing that would come to me was that the Adventist health message isn't found in the Bible. Jesus, our example in all things, was not a veggie and never even hinted at it.

I have heard various SDA ministers use erroneous Biblical quotes and false suppositions in trying to bolster what was given by sister White. I have been told by more than one Adventist that I am in sin by keeping the dietary laws.

What do you guys think about this? I truly respect the core group we have on here and wanted a non judgemental conversation to explore these things.

Thanx...

I'm not a vegetarian but I'd like to be. With his help I hope to be soon. It's just a much healthier life style as meat is now really industrialized and unfit for consumption.

Another way to look at meat eating is that it was given as a curse to shorten evil man's life span. We see a drastic change in life span because of it.

Genesis 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

This is what sis White wrote on this:

It was not because they were hungry that the Israelites murmured thus. In Egypt they had become accustomed to the use of flesh food, for while they had subsisted largely upon it. But God knew that meat-eating would produce disease and shorten life, and in leading them into the wilderness He purposed to educate them in correct habits, that they might be a pure, holy, healthy people. He withheld flesh meat from them, knowing that it is not man’s natural food. He provided for them the very best food, food that would have preserved them in health and lengthened their lives. But they were not pleased with this food. They wept and murmured and complained, saying that God had brought them out of Egypt to let them pine away and die in the wilderness. {Ms155-1899.4}

God provided fruit in its natural state for our first parents. He gave Adam charge of the garden to dress it, and to care for it, saying, “To you it shall be for meat“: one animal shall not destroy another for food. After the fall, the eating of flesh was suffered, in order to shorten the period of the existence of the long-lived race. It was allowed because of the hardness of the hearts of men. One of the great errors that many insist upon is, that muscular strength is dependent upon animal food. But the simple grains, fruits of the trees and vegetables have all the nutritive properties necessary to make good blood. This a flesh diet can not do. When a limb is broken, physicians recommend their patients not to eat meat, as there will be danger of inflammation setting in. My brother, after all the light that has been given on the diet question, your lamentations because you can not exercise freedom in meat-eating is apparently similar to the complainings, lamentations, and weeping of the children of Israel in the ears of the Lord. {TSDF 68.6}

The last thought I have on this is in our sanctuary message...Yom Kippur is only mandatory day of fast in the whole biblical calendar. Think about it, we who live in the antitypical day of atonement are to curb our appetite which is probably the strongest thing to overcome.

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

I'm not a vegetarian but I'd like to be. With his help I hope to be soon. It's just a much healthier life style as meat is now really industrialized.

Another way to look at meat eating is that it was given as a curse to shorten evil man's life span.

Genesis 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

This is what sis White wrote on this:

It was not because they were hungry that the Israelites murmured thus. In Egypt they had become accustomed to the use of flesh food, for while they had subsisted largely upon it. But God knew that meat-eating would produce disease and shorten life, and in leading them into the wilderness He purposed to educate them in correct habits, that they might be a pure, holy, healthy people. He withheld flesh meat from them, knowing that it is not man’s natural food. He provided for them the very best food, food that would have preserved them in health and lengthened their lives. But they were not pleased with this food. They wept and murmured and complained, saying that God had brought them out of Egypt to let them pine away and die in the wilderness. {Ms155-1899.4}
God provided fruit in its natural state for our first parents. He gave Adam charge of the garden to dress it, and to care for it, saying, “To you it shall be for meat“: one animal shall not destroy another for food. After the fall, the eating of flesh was suffered, in order to shorten the period of the existence of the long-lived race. It was allowed because of the hardness of the hearts of men. One of the great errors that many insist upon is, that muscular strength is dependent upon animal food. But the simple grains, fruits of the trees and vegetables have all the nutritive properties necessary to make good blood. This a flesh diet can not do. When a limb is broken, physicians recommend their patients not to eat meat, as there will be danger of inflammation setting in. My brother, after all the light that has been given on the diet question, your lamentations because you can not exercise freedom in meat-eating is apparently similar to the complainings, lamentations, and weeping of the children of Israel in the ears of the Lord. {TSDF 68.6}

The last thought I have on this is in our sanctuary message...Yom Kippur is only mandatory day of fast in the whole biblical calendar. Think about it, we who live in the antitypical day of atonement are to curb our appetite which is probably the strongest thing to overcome.

I personally eat pretty much any food that is put before me. If I was at the home of a vegan I would happily eat there food and I would not demand my own type of food, the same at home if they don't like what I eat then don't come around for dinner lol

 

[1John2:4]

I have a question for you all. Ever since I was convicted of the Sabbath truth, my wife and I have kept the dietary laws. As I became aware of the health message of vegetarianism and now veganism, I prayed for light and conviction upon this. Nothing ever came.... the only thing that would come to me was that the Adventist health message isn't found in the Bible. Jesus, our example in all things, was not a veggie and never even hinted at it.

I have heard various SDA ministers use erroneous Biblical quotes and false suppositions in trying to bolster what was given by sister White. I have been told by more than one Adventist that I am in sin by keeping the dietary laws.

What do you guys think about this? I truly respect the core group we have on here and wanted a non judgemental conversation to explore these things.

Thanx...

I don't think you are sinning but I am not exactly an SDA, my grandmother and all of my family on my father's side are SDA and they eat turkey. Man says all kinds of crazy stuff in all denominations but it does not make it biblical. I have been off and on veggie my whole life I have been feeling like becoming vegetarian again. I find it really difficult to eat biblically clean with the meat rules sometimes. I have to have all the restaurants burn my steak, they rarely cook it well done. When I eat hamburger I wonder if it has hip meat and I feel convicted. If you tell people you eat biblically clean they look at you like you are crazy they are way more accommodating when you say I'm vegetarian. At least we don't have to worry about it being sacrificed to idols!! Enjoy your biblically clean meat, I will enjoy mine too for now

 

[overcomer]

Found one more quote on Genesis 9.

“After the Flood the people ate largely of animal food. God saw that the ways of man were corrupt, and that he was disposed to exalt himself proudly against his Creator and to follow the inclinations of his own heart. And He permitted that long-lived race to eat animal food to shorten their sinful lives. Soon after the Flood the race began to rapidly decrease in size, and in length of years.” {CCh 228.2} ---Counsels for the Church p228

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Thanx Overcomer but I know the SOP in regards to the message. Sister White says we are to test her writings against the Bible. This is my problem... I can't reconcile her message from what I read from Scripture.

In the above quote, she cited flesh eating as the reason man went from living for 600-900 years to 120. I read that it was proclaimed by God to be so... I'm sure the flesh food had a part but was not the reason. In the antideluvian scenario, we see two of every unclean beast and seven of the clean... this undoubtedly referred to animals for sacrifice, however, not all clean animals were used for sacrificial service.

I have heard it said that Noah and his family had to eat flesh because there was no vegetation on the earth... what did the animals eat? I'm pretty sure God could have with a Word established vegetation.

The other oft used scripture, is in Daniel when he and his companions requested pulse (veggies) to eat instead of the Kings table. Notice however that it was only requested for a specific time frame and we know Daniel would ahve at the least eaten lamb during passover. The key to me at least is that Daniel refused to eat of the Kings meat (food) because it was probably sacrificed to idols and it would have contained all manner of unclean foods.

Then we have ulta restrictive nazarite diet that excuded even grapes but did not exclude clean flesh food. This would ahve been an excellent example, for God to show us that dedicating oneself to God's service included the abstinance from flesh food but He did not. In the example of John the Baptist, he ate locusts not artichokes. Iheard one Adventist preacher say that John was a vegetarian and the locusts he ate were flowers... not true to the redition of the word translated locusts and a terrible twisting of the scripture to promote an agenda.

The veggie zealots today are even going beyond what sister White wrote. She stated that diet was not to be a test of fellowship. If it were a sin, as some today are contending, then we are not in fellowship while actively being in a known sin. Ellen White gave her grandchildren milk to drink yet to partake of dairy today, is a mortal sin? Seems like confusion...

It is nowhere found as a requirement of God's people anywhere in the Bible (ironically the Bible does say that those that are weak in faith should eat only veggies) yet we are admomnished and bullied at times to do it or lose salvation. As I stated originally, I have been wrestling with this since I became as Adventist and have not been given any light contrary to following the Biblical diet. As Overcomer said, it may be healthier to be vegetarian but most veggies I know are not the picture of health and all are either atheists or new agers.

Please, if you have any evidence from the Bible for this being salvational, please share as I do not want to be in disobedience to God's Word.

 

[overcomer]

It's my understanding that the dress reform and the diet reform are a result of sanctification. Not the other way around.

With that said there are few reasons I believe God's last days' people should be vegetarians.

When God made man, seeds and seed bearing fruits were the original diet. After sin, God supplemented the diet with leaves... After the flood, the vegetation was depleted. God allowed meat to be consumed. We know meat and animal products are acidic. Cancer cells and diseases feed on acidic blood and can't survive in alkaline body environment. The atonement means to restore back to the original condition. There is no more death in heaven. We need to get back to original diet. Our taste buds and intestines are designed for vegetarian diet.

When the nation of Israel left Egypt, God intended for them to eat manna. But the people wanted meat. God said fine have it your way. But if you are going to eat meat, eat the clean meat.

No doubt the king's meat had all kinds of unclean food. Daniel and his friends could have requested kosher food. They requested vegetarian food instead. Vegetarian diet does clean up the mind (look at Nebuchadnezzar's case of eating grass). That no doubt helped them before they could stand up against the image of Babylon. In the end all kind of evil forces will be unleashed. We need to sharpen our mind like never before.

In Ellen White's case...for years she taught veggie diet. Not until her later years did she become a vegetarian. That taught me more about persistence and overcoming.

I believe all those hippies are supposed to provoke SDAs into jealousy. SDAs were given this message but have not been faithful. Vegetarian diet doesn't necessarily mean good health. There are 8 laws of health.

So for me the main reasons are health reasons (we are supposed to a nation of peculiar people, not sicklings), clean up our mind for the anti-typical Day of Atonement and get used to heaven where there is not going to be meat eating.

 

[overcomer]

Please, if you have any evidence from the Bible for this being salvational, please share as I do not want to be in disobedience to God's Word.

God never requires us to do anything for salvation except to believe. And we know with that faith, work follows.

I heard someone once said that sis White didn't put stars in the sky. She only made them brighter and more beautiful.

And sis White made no two ways about it.

“God is either teaching His church, reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith, or He is not. This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter.”—5 Testimonies, 671.

“If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth. I have been fearful that many would take a questioning, doubting position, and in my distress for your souls I would warn you. How many will heed the warning? As you now hold the Testimonies, should one be given crossing your track, correcting your errors, would you feel at perfect liberty to accept or reject any part or the whole? That which you will be least inclined to receive is the very part most needed.”—5 Testimonies, 98.

“Some express their views that the testimony of Sister White cannot be reliable. This is all that many unconsecrated ones want. The testimonies of reproof have checked their vanity and pride; but if they dared, they would go to almost any length in fashion and pride. God will give all such an opportunity to prove themselves and to develop their true characters.”—5 Testimonies, 673.

The Testimonies of His Spirit call your attention to the Scriptures, point out your defects of character, and rebuke your sins; therefore you do not heed them. And to justify your carnal, ease-loving course you begin to doubt whether the Testimonies are from God. If you would obey their teachings you would be assured of their divine origin. Remember, your unbelief does not affect their truthfulness. If they are from God they will stand.”—5 Testimonies, 234.

“Many who have backslidden from the truth assign as a reason for their course that they do not have faith in the Testimonies . . The question now is: Will they yield their idol which God condemns, or will they continue in their wrong course of indulgence and reject the light God has given them reproving the very things in which they delight? The question to be settled with them is: Shall I deny myself and receive as of God the Testimonies which reprove my sins, or shall I reject the Testimonies because they reprove my sins?”—4 Testimonies, 31-32.

“Let none entertain the thought that I regret or take back any plain testimony I have borne to individuals or to the people. If I have erred anywhere, it is in not rebuking sin more decidedly and firmly. Some of the brethren have taken the responsibility of criticizing my work and proposing an easier way to correct wrongs. To these persons I would say: I take God’s way and not yours. What I have said or written in testimony or reproof has not been too plainly expressed . .“Those who would in any way lessen the force of the sharp reproofs which God has given me to speak must meet their work at the judgment . . To those who have taken the responsibility to reprove me and, in their finite judgment, to propose a way which appears wiser to them I repeat: I do not accept your efforts. Leave me with God, and let Him teach me. I will take the words from the Lord and speak them to the people. I do not expect that all will accept the reproof and reform their lives, but I must discharge my duty all the same. I will walk in humility before God, doing my work for time and for eternity.”—5 Testimonies, 19-20.

“God has given sufficient evidence, so that all who desire to do so may satisfy themselves as to the character of the Testimonies; and, having acknowledged them to be from God, it is their duty to accept reproof, even though they do not themselves see the sinfulness of their course. If they fully realized their condition, what would be the need of reproof? Because they know it not, God mercifully sets it before them, so that they may repent and reform before it shall be too late. Those who despise the warning will be left in blindness to become self-deceived; but those who heed it, and zealously go about the work of separating their sins from them in order to have the needed graces, will be opening the door of their hearts that the dear Saviour may come in and dwell with them. Those who are most closely connected with God are the ones who know His voice when He speaks to them. Those who are spiritual discern spiritual things. Such will feel grateful that the Lord has pointed out their errors.”— 5 Testimonies, 682-583.

“Satan has ability to suggest doubts and to devise objections to the pointed testimony that God sends, and many think it a virtue, a mark of intelligence in them, to be unbelieving and to question and quibble. Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and a teachable spirit, and all should decide from the weight of evidence.”—3 Testimonies, 255.

I think the fact that this subject is weighing on your mind shows the spirit is trying to convict you.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I have been asking for BIBLE proof for years and have received none... posting SOP quotes before me is not going to give me what we are told to demand... Biblical proof. Didn't sister White herself say that if what she spoke was not in accordance with the Bible, to disregard it?

You may say, "well dress reform isn't presented in the Bible". But the principels are there in regards to lust, envy, covetousness. Where in the Bible does it say that eating meat excites the lower passions? This implies that those that are vegetarian do not have lust issues... totally false. A co-worker and his wife who are veggie are obsessed with 50 shades of gray and the other perversions prevelant today.

True story... my wife developed mild type II diabetes and her numbers were continuing to climb to the point the Dr, wanted her immediately on insulin. She refused and we researched and went on a carb restricted diet, eating no grains or sugar or fruit for 3 months... eating mostly protein, good fats and some berries and veggies. If she had eaten the Adventist diet, her numbers would have continued to climb with the physical results that diabetes brings. Her numbers dropped so significantly, the Dr. could not beleive it was from diet alone.

Do you know that every grain harvested in the world today has amounts of glysophate in it, the residual of Roundup? This is causing all manner of health issues including most inflammation related diseases? There is as much wrong with our gmo fruits and veggies today than with our meat supply. The last two or three instances of major food recalls recently were for vegetables for listeria and ecoli.

So, the SOP notwithstanding, I see no evidence in scripture or in the world around us that the Adventist diet is superior. Please give me the Bible in support of your belief...

 

[overcomer]

I have been asking for BIBLE proof for years and have received none... posting SOP quotes before me is not going to give me what we are told to demand... Biblical proof. Didn't sister White herself say that if what she spoke was not in accordance with the Bible, to disregard it?

You may say, "well dress reform isn't presented in the Bible". But the principels are there in regards to lust, envy, covetousness. Where in the Bible does it say that eating meat excites the lower passions? This implies that those that are vegetarian do not have lust issues... totally false. A co-worker and his wife who are veggie are obsessed with 50 shades of gray and the other perversions prevelant today.

True story... my wife developed mild type II diabetes and her numbers were continuing to climb to the point the Dr, wanted her immediately on insulin. She refused and we researched and went on a carb restricted diet, eating no grains or sugar or fruit for 3 months... eating mostly protein, good fats and some berries and veggies. If she had eaten the Adventist diet, her numbers would have continued to climb with the physical results that diabetes brings. Her numbers dropped so significantly, the Dr. could not beleive it was from diet alone.

Do you know that every grain harvested in the world today has amounts of glysophate in it, the residual of Roundup? This is causing all manner of health issues including most inflammation related diseases? There is as much wrong with our gmo fruits and veggies today than with our meat supply. The last two or three instances of major food recalls recently were for vegetables for listeria and ecoli.

So, the SOP notwithstanding, I see no evidence in scripture or in the world around us that the Adventist diet is superior. Please give me the Bible in support of your belief...

I'm not sure what Adventist diet would cause diabetes. Where are you on the east coast? Maybe you are not getting the right health advice.

We mostly avoid known GMO products. We try to get as much organic non-GMO produce as we can. The thing about animal products is that organic or not, they are all acidic and cause cancer. That's a scientific fact. Healthy body, healthy mind.

The thing with EGW's writings is she didn't give us the liberty to pick and choose. We either accept them as a whole or reject them as a whole. Either they are the testimonies of Jesus or they are not.

For me the biblical support is there. Doesn't it say our body is the temple whatever we eat and drink do it for the glory of God? If our walk here is to change our habits and inclinations to prepare us for heaven, then what about our appetite? Doesn't that need to be changed as well?

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Jesus ate broiled fish. At least once! We know swine is bad for us. They eat anything! The don't part the hooves and chew cud. I love pork but I stopped eating it. It's just no darn good for us. The typical studies show vegetarians, like the group of Adventists in Loma Linda, CA, who are only mostly vegan, live about 6-10 years longer. Far cry from 600! There are 4 or 5 klan's of people worldwide that fall in this category and diet seems to be the number one denominator. I think that much of man's lifespan was taken by God after the flood when the "mist" was fell to earth. The Bible peaks of a body of water above the firmament. It came from there as well as out of the earth. Radiation ages. God told Noa to put 7 of each kind of clean on the Ark because there would be nothing else to sacrifice or eat once they hit land. IF you notice, instruction was given for an animal AND it's female, so possibly there were 4 of every kind and 14 clean because 7 ain't divisible by 2! That would explain NO inbreeding.
Are we commanded to be vegetarian? No, but common sense plays a large part in lifespan. The Bible says in the latter days, people would not marry and abstain from meat. Does that meat animal or meet vs milk in true knowledge of the word? Does it mean MEET for repentance like Jesus warned the Pharisees of? When we look at all the GMOs, antibiotics and all the garbage made in factories that we blast in the radio activator and feed to our kids because they are mesmerized by the comercials, and that WE have no idea what's in it, it should make one think a little. Have you seen where they busted the cat n dog food people for grinding up dead dogs n cats? I know for a fact that the "beef" in one particular Mexican chain uses grade D (and lower!) meat. The meat is graded by how much bone, cartilage and cereal filler goes in. Some of it barely qualifies to be actually called beef by a couple %! I laugh at some of these TV comercials. When they say whole hog sausage, THEY MEAN WHOLE HOG! Lol

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Forgot to tell y'all, I have a friend who worked at the chemical plant on the gulf that BP used to spray the oil from the big spill with that made the oil solidify and sink, rather than sucking it up. The cull rate of gulf coast shrimp is 50% due to TUMORS. That's just visual. Shrimp is a bottom feeder. I love shrimp but according to the Bible it's unclean. I don't eat any of it anymore. Knowing about the tumors really helped btw!
Saw in the thread about roundup. It's basically agent orange AND a Monsaint-o product. Owners of the corn. Yeah, THE corn, worldwide, all of it. Every kernel. Sugar beets, cotton, souls of men lol

 

[EmmaCat]

Well ... hmmm.

I'm not a vegetarian, but we have folks here in our community who raise hogs and cattle to help feed our community. There are many who hunt and share the meat as well.

I think it's important to have a balanced diet, with many vegetables. We all have gardens here and some apple trees.

I think it's more important to be sure the words out of our mouths edify souls rather than what we put in there to edify our living bodies.

All good things
Emmy

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Nothing wrong at all with hunting and taking animals for food. Deer fall under the same category in the Bible as cattle. Elk too. Parts the hoof & chews the cud. I ate pork all my life until I started following clean vs unclean. That's just me. BTW , elk is wonderful. They mostly come down out of the mountains and feed on corn. It makes a difference also what they eat as far as flavor. What we get in the south aren't as good as the ones up north. Scrub and sage vs cornfields as far as you can see. Peace

 

[visionary]

Glyphosate, pathways to modern diseases II: Celiac sprue and gluten intolerance

 

[Dave-W]

Hey EastCoast! How have you been?

Again, I am NOT SDA, but I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with keeping to the dietary rules in the books of Moses, what many Messianics call "biblical kosher." I would submit that it is anti-nomianism and perhaps even a bit of antisemitism (they get wrapped up together sometimes) that would suggest keeping to the dietary restrictions is "sinful."

Having grown up around Adventists, I am more or less familiar with White's teaching on vegetarianism; and can tell you that many good Adventists in and around my home town and around Andrews Univ. are meat eaters. And to a person they will claim that the SDA teaching is that eating meat is bad for the health, but not a sin. I also realize that is putting a severe stretch on Ms White's teachings.

There is nothing in scripture to prohibit eating meat from a clean animal, sufficiently drained of the blood.

 

[overcomer]

There will be no killing and meat eating in heaven. If you plan on going, you'd better train and transform your character and habits...unless you believe in the fable that it is your character which will be changed 'in the twinkling of an eye moment'.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

There will be no killing and meat eating in heaven.

There will also not be fossil fuel burning modes of transportation either. I guess as a good Adventist I should abstain from driving my car or heating my home?

If you plan on going, you'd better train and transform your character and habits...unless you believe in the fable that it is your character which will be changed 'in the twinkling of an eye moment'.

I'm disappointed in your response.. you have done exactly what every other Adventist zealot has done when asked this question, even after I repeatedly asked for Biblical reasoning,... resort to veiled threats. By your statement of "if you plan on going" implies you believe I will not if I don't hop on board the veggie train...

 

[Gary K]

ECR,

I would, if I were you, take the issue to the Lord in prayer, study the health aspects of things, and look at the entire history of mankind, including the original diet God gave to Adam and Eve. That was God's original plan for mankind.

This is, as are all things spiritual, between you and God. It's not between you and anyone other than God, including me. Live according to the light God gives you. Study hard, and keep on asking for light until God answers your prayers. He will not leave you without guidance. You have the promise of Jesus on that: The Comforter will lead you into all truth.