Healing through the laying on of hands is for today

[aiki]

If you go back to the story about Jesus healing the guy beside the pool, you can note that there was a crowd of sick folk around that pool, and out of the all of them He healed only one guy.

Which suggests that physical healing was not a big priority for Christ.

Although it would be great if we could go to the kids' sick ward and get them all healed, there is no New Testament support for it, and anyone going and trying it might be doing in the flesh rather than the Spirit.

I quite agree.

It would be more in keeping with the "man beside the pool" story if one went into the sick ward, found one person who had the faith to be healed and saw him or her healed

But, you know, Christ didn't approach the man at the Pool of Bethesda because he thought the guy had the faith to be healed. His only question to the lame man was, "Do you want to be healed?" It was an odd question, since everyone around the pool was hoping to be healed. Faith, though, didn't come into it. The lame guy didn't say, "I believe you can heal me, Jesus." He said only that he couldn't ever get into the pool in time to be healed. Jesus healed him anyway. The amount of faith the lame man had was not a factor in his being healed. A very different approach from modern "healers" who make healing contingent upon the sick person's faith.

It is interesting that Smith Wigglesworth, probably the most successful healing evangelist of the 20th Century, who got thousands healed during his ministry, never went into the sick ward of any hospital and tried to heal all those who were there.

Yes, "interesting" is the word.

So to say that because a person would not go into a sick ward and get everyone healed, is promoting a false gift, is saying something not supported in the New Testament at all.

Oh, I didn't say he ought to heal everyone. Just one would be sufficient. Surely, with the healing record the OP has, healing one child dying of cancer should be a piece of cake. But, as far as my experience goes, those enthusing stridently over miraculous healing never take up this sort of challenge. Interesting (to use your word), no?

But then Paul wasn't Jesus. He was just an ordinary human being just like the rest of us.

But a divinely-appointed apostle of the Early Church, taught the doctrines of the faith directly by revelation of Christ, and established in his office of apostle by miraculous deeds. Not so ordinary, I think.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

From what I have read of the testimonies of folk who have been healed here in New Zealand and overseas, it has come more from itinerant ministries who have been invited to different churches around the country, or who have held meetings in public halls. These ministries have had a more interdenominational stance, which I think the Lord is able to work with more effectively, because then when people get healed, then no particular denominational body can "own" the power. Of course, there is the danger of "idol worship" in the form of putting the healing ministry on a pedestal in the mistaken belief that the guy has a special gift that the common "herd" do not possess.

But, it doesn't have to be that way. There are no-name Christians who pray and see people get healed. There are testimonies. It just isn't made as public, because we don't have funding streams we are trying to keep flowing through those testimonies.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

In relation to that, I read a good little quote that sums up the attitude of a genuine believer:

I'm just a poor sinner, and nothing at all,
But Jesus, my Saviour is all in all.

It can take even the best of us a very long time to learn that simple principle, and God has to take us through a number of life experiences to get us to that point. It's one thing knowing in our minds, but the Holy Spirit has to write it on our hearts. When He does, there is no danger of being puffed up in pride, because we will know for sure that anything good that happens through us is the work of the Holy Spirit and Jesus gets the glory and not us.

Those who put themselves on a pedestal and think they are someone special because they are able to win souls for Christ and get folk healed, are those who have not learned the lesson yet, and if they don't, they may be standing before God depending on their good works and achievements and may receive a negative response from Him.

I think you may misunderstand me. It isn't out of pride that I talk about what I talk about. I don't try to promote my name. I promote Jesus Christ, His Father, and His Holy Spirit. I share what I share, because for too long, people have endured others claiming things that are verifiably false as if that is okay for the sake of unity. What unity can you really have with someone who doesn't believe what you know to be real. It is almost like a True Christian trying to maintain unity with a Jew or Muslim who doesn't believe Jesus was who He said He was. I share what I share to openly challenge a major deception that has been allowed to be around for toooooooooo long! Too many people are willing to allow the Holy Spirit to be stripped of what God empowered him to do in and through believers. And, too many who know, let it slide in an effort to maintain unity with people who think they are frauds at best and of the d**** at worst. You can't maintain unity with that.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Which suggests that physical healing was not a big priority for Christ.



I quite agree.



But, you know, Christ didn't approach the man at the Pool of Bethesda because he thought the guy had the faith to be healed. His only question to the lame man was, "Do you want to be healed?" It was an odd question, since everyone around the pool was hoping to be healed. Faith, though, didn't come into it. The lame guy didn't say, "I believe you can heal me, Jesus." He said only that he couldn't ever get into the pool in time to be healed. Jesus healed him anyway. The amount of faith the lame man had was not a factor in his being healed. A very different approach from modern "healers" who make healing contingent upon the sick person's faith.



Yes, "interesting" is the word.



Oh, I didn't say he ought to heal everyone. Just one would be sufficient. Surely, with the healing record the OP has, healing one child dying of cancer should be a piece of cake. But, as far as my experience goes, those enthusing stridently over miraculous healing never take up this sort of challenge. Interesting (to use your word), no?



But a divinely-appointed apostle of the Early Church, taught the doctrines of the faith directly by revelation of Christ, and established in his office of apostle by miraculous deeds. Not so ordinary, I think.

You continue to mock while simultaneously claiming to be a believer in Christ Jesus and rejecting what He said. If only you could hear yourself. You seem to profess that I have pride, but you speak like your lack of experience somehow places you above those who have experience--just like the atheist who thinks he can tell me that God doesn't exist when I know God exists and walk with Him.

For the record, I have not seen any kids with cancer healed; but that doesn't free me from my obligation to offer to pray for someone with cancer. It could be that God would heal one with cancer someday. Should I not pray for anyone and deprive the few who could be healed if I did? If I never prayed for anyone, those who were healed wouldn't have been. I am not the Healer. I just get to participate with Him. If He doesn't do it, I have no power to do it. Just like, if He doesn't save someone, I don't have any power to save someone. Yet, there are pastors all the time who claim they got x number of people saved. That is wrong Scripturally. They have no power to save anyone. God saves.

You can continue to think whatever you like, but as I have said before, you are dead wrong. You pick one incident out of the Scriptures and build your doctrine around them. He picked one man at the pool. What about other places where "they brought the sick to Jesus and he healed them all" (Luke 4:40, Mat 8:16, Mar 1:32, etc). What about the time where he sent his disciples out and when they came back the father of one with seizures complained to Jesus that His disciples couldn't heal his son. Jesus chastised His disciples for their lack of faith. If anything, the fact that I haven't seen cancer healed means I should be chastised for my lack of faith. But, it would be hypocritical for you to say that to me, since you don't even pray for anyone believing they will be healed, because of the doctrine you protect. Jesus even gave His 70 the direction "heal the sick..." (Matt 10:8).

You claim that the early Apostles were given those to validate what they were saying. How much more do we need that today?--when there are so many more various interpretations of what the Scriptures say--including people who claim He doesn't even use healing regularly today and it shouldn't be a regular part of every Christian's doctrine. Jesus has a word for people like that. He said they were blind guides leading the blind into a ditch among other things.

 

[aiki]

You continue to mock while simultaneously claiming to be a believer in Christ Jesus and rejecting what He said. If only you could hear yourself. You seem to profess that I have pride, but you speak like your lack of experience somehow places you above those who have experience--just like the atheist who thinks he can tell me that God doesn't exist when I know God exists and walk with Him.

You know, we tend to be quickest to criticize in others the failing of which we are most guilty ourselves.

For the record, I have not seen any kids with cancer healed; but that doesn't free me from my obligation to offer to pray for someone with cancer. It could be that God would heal one with cancer someday. Should I not pray for anyone and deprive the few who could be healed if I did?

Of course you should pray for those sick of cancer. Why wouldn't you? It might be that God will heal them. Then again, He might not. It's entirely up to Him what He'll do.

If I never prayed for anyone, those who were healed wouldn't have been.

Goodness! Do you really think you are so crucial to God's healing someone? Yikes!

You can continue to think whatever you like,

Yes, I know.

but as I have said before, you are dead wrong.

Well, you also are free to think as you like.

You pick one incident out of the Scriptures and build your doctrine around them.

Uh, no. I also mentioned Trophimus, Epaphroditus, Dorcas, and Timothy. Even Paul suffered with a physical "thorn in the flesh" for which he received no healing. In any case, I mentioned the lame man at the Pool of Bethesda in response to what Oscarr had written about it.

What about the time where he sent his disciples out and when they came back the father of one with seizures complained to Jesus that His disciples couldn't heal his son. Jesus chastised His disciples for their lack of faith. If anything, the fact that I haven't seen cancer healed means I should be chastised for my lack of faith.

Well, that certainly makes you the important one in a healing, doesn't it? If you don't have enough faith, well, then, God's just hooped, I guess, eh? Who knew God was so dependent on us?

But, it would be hypocritical for you to say that to me, since you don't even pray for anyone believing they will be healed, because of the doctrine you protect.

Yeah, you just don't seem capable of actually comprehending what I'm writing. I'll say it again: I don't believe healing never happens, only that it is not a "mainstay" of Christianity as you proposed earlier in this thread. I have prayed for healing for people a number of times over the years, fully trusting that if healing was God's will, He would heal. But I don't think such prayers are on par with major doctrines of the faith like the Trinity, or the Lord's Table (aka Communion), biblical inspiration/inerrancy, baptism, the Gospel, etc.

You claim that the early Apostles were given those to validate what they were saying. How much more do we need that today?

There are no apostles living today.

--when there are so many more various interpretations of what the Scriptures say--including people who claim He doesn't even use healing regularly today and it shouldn't be a regular part of every Christian's doctrine. Jesus has a word for people like that. He said they were blind guides leading the blind into a ditch among other things.

Meh. Ad hominem - however oblique - does not constitute an effective argument for your views on healing.

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus celebrated faith when He encountered it, but He never demanded it as a prerequisite for healing. In many cases, the healing came through the sick person's obedience to His command - "Take up your bed and walk", or "Go wash in the pool of Siloam". Naaman got healed when he obeyed Elisha and went and washed himself in the Jordan River.

I have faith that your analysis is wrong.

 

[SkyWriting]

You continue to mock while simultaneously claiming to be a believer in Christ Jesus and rejecting what He said. If only you could hear yourself. You seem to profess that I have pride, but you speak like your lack of experience somehow places you above those who have experience--just like the atheist who thinks he can tell me that God doesn't exist when I know God exists and walk with Him.

For the record, I have not seen any kids with cancer healed; but that doesn't free me from my obligation to offer to pray for someone with cancer. It could be that God would heal one with cancer someday. Should I not pray for anyone and deprive the few who could be healed if I did? If I never prayed for anyone, those who were healed wouldn't have been. I am not the Healer. I just get to participate with Him. If He doesn't do it, I have no power to do it. Just like, if He doesn't save someone, I don't have any power to save someone. Yet, there are pastors all the time who claim they got x number of people saved. That is wrong Scripturally. They have no power to save anyone. God saves.

You can continue to think whatever you like, but as I have said before, you are dead wrong. You pick one incident out of the Scriptures and build your doctrine around them. He picked one man at the pool. What about other places where "they brought the sick to Jesus and he healed them all" (Luke 4:40, Mat 8:16, Mar 1:32, etc). What about the time where he sent his disciples out and when they came back the father of one with seizures complained to Jesus that His disciples couldn't heal his son. Jesus chastised His disciples for their lack of faith. If anything, the fact that I haven't seen cancer healed means I should be chastised for my lack of faith. But, it would be hypocritical for you to say that to me, since you don't even pray for anyone believing they will be healed, because of the doctrine you protect. Jesus even gave His 70 the direction "heal the sick..." (Matt 10:8).

You claim that the early Apostles were given those to validate what they were saying. How much more do we need that today?--when there are so many more various interpretations of what the Scriptures say--including people who claim He doesn't even use healing regularly today and it shouldn't be a regular part of every Christian's doctrine. Jesus has a word for people like that. He said they were blind guides leading the blind into a ditch among other things.

There is never a bad reason to pray. Prayer changes you, not anyone else.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The laying on of hands and anointing of oil for the sick, known as Holy Unction, has always been part of Christian practice. This isn't controversial.

The sensationalist practices of some groups that engage in charlatanism to profit off the poor and the sick, that has no place in the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

But as I've pointed out, I don't hold the view that God doesn't miraculously heal, only that He doesn't do so at every turn - certainly not to the degree that would warrant calling healing a "mainstay" of Christianity. Scripture clearly bears this out.



Yup.



Uh huh.



It isn't that He no longer possesses certain gifts but that the gifts you want to make a "mainstay" of Christian living aren't as important now as they were at the establishing of the Early Church. Certainly, miraculous healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy - these are not essential to Christian living as many modern hyper-Charismatics want everyone to believe.



I don't think I've ever claimed that miraculous gifts were only exercised by the apostles.



I think the "why" is explained very clearly in Scripture:

Ephesians 4:11-15
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:



Who has said anything about spiritual gifts becoming null and void? I didn't.



Exactly. So, how, then, is it a "mainstay" of Christianity?



Yes, and?



I think this was more an example of the power our prayers have with God when they emanate from a righteous life than of James indicating Christians can control the weather.



I don't recall James stipulating physical healing. He seems to be thinking of spiritual healing, actually; for he goes on to write:

James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

It doesn't look to me like James would have any issue at all with my stance on miraculous healing.



And what are those "best gifts"? The ones he names first.

1 Corinthians 12:28
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Healing comes in fifth in this list. And tongues dead last. How, then, have they become so prominent in the thinking of so many modern Christians? I suspect because they are at once both sensational and easily faked.



Because they were responsible for establishing the Early Church and serving as the leaders of it. Divine power would be necessary to fulfilling both things. The Church is now well-established as is the canon of Scripture. There is not the same need today for the sorts of miraculous deeds that helped found the Church and certified as Scripture the writing of men like Paul, Peter, James and John.



I both preach and teach - two of the spiritual gifts Paul names. I make disciples and have done for over twenty years. How about you? I recall, too, that Paul says that not all believers will manifest the same gifts which your question seems to ignore.



Oh? If they can make their case well from Scripture, I don't see that your accusation here holds water. In any case, I'm not one who says that miraculous healing has ceased, only that it is relatively rare.



Oh, good grief! Brother, it takes far more faith to wait on God to change a life, to bring a person free of the grip of Self and sin, than it does to believe God for healing. God does a far greater miracle transforming a wicked human heart than He ever does restoring someone to physical health.



Your unpleasant insinuations in this thread give me cause to doubt you here.



I don't know what church you attend, but in the church in which I'm a member, I have the privilege of watching God transform lives constantly. I'm watching Him shape former drug addicts, sex addicts, alcoholics, and such like into Christ-like people all the time! Forget the physical stuff. The real potent works of God are in eternal spiritual areas - in a person's character, thinking, and heart.



Maybe the Church today wouldn't look so sensual, so juvenile, so carnal if it weren't chasing after sensational, external demonstrations of God's power, encouraged in doing so by carnal believers who have yet to understand that a changed heart is a far greater miracle than any physical healing God might do.

Nice attempts at insults--again spoken out of ignorance of the Truth. I remember when Jesus had that conversation with Nicodemus in John 3.

I think in all you write, we agree on one thing: A truly changed heart is a far greater and much more significant miracle than any physical healing, raising from the dead, deliverance, miracle, prophesy or tongue. Without a person's heart being changed, those other things are superficial.

And, that is why you do have a lot of counterfeits, because you have a lot of counterfeit conversions. That isn't limited to people and churches that believe in the gifts though, there are a lot of fake pastors who have a form of godliness without the power in churches full of tares that don't believe in the gifts!

Following your logic, since we all have the Scriptures, maybe we don't need pastors and teachers any more, either. Clearly there are a lot of false pastors and false teachers, so rather than allow the continued mockery of God's Word and True doctrine, maybe we humans should just decide, without any valid Scriptural reason, that the Holy Spirit stopped giving those, too. That way we can just eliminate the whole mess! We won't have preachers preaching opposite things on Sunday morning anymore, if we just get rid of them all, right? I can honestly say that I'm not comfortable with everything that happens in every church that sees miracles. But, having been in both kinds of churches, I truly believe more genuine conversions take place in churches that see miracles than those who don't. It is a whole lot easier to put on a show when you don't look foolish than when you have to be willing to look foolish for what you believe. And, one way I certainly look foolish to a lot of people is when I offer to pray for people and they don't get healed. I am so thankful that God says He uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. So, every time I reach out past my uncomfortable introverted self and offer to pray for someone, I act and look foolish, because of my steadfast belief in God. I will continue to do so, because God entrusted me with something. You stand against us. You need to really re-evaluate who you are truly working for.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

There is never a bad reason to pray. Prayer changes you, not anyone else.

That isn't true--at least not if you believe the Scriptures I believe. Prayer actually doesn't change anything. God does. But, God changes more than the prayer, He also changes others and circumstances through the prayer of faith from one He deems righteous.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

The laying on of hands and anointing of oil for the sick, known as Holy Unction, has always been part of Christian practice. This isn't controversial.

The sensationalist practices of some groups that engage in charlatanism to profit off the poor and the sick, that has no place in the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree that charlatanism has no place in the church. But, that isn't limited to sensationalist practices. There are some who lack the power of God and profit off the poor and sick and widowed and rich without sensationalist practices. That should have no place in the church as well. Sadly, that has gone on much longer than sensationalist practices without anyone doing anything about it.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I agree that charlatanism has no place in the church. But, that isn't limited to sensationalist practices. There are some who lack the power of God and profit off the poor and sick and widowed and rich without sensationalist practices. That should have no place in the church as well. Sadly, that has gone on much longer than sensationalist practices without anyone doing anything about it.

I don't know of any traditional church that profits off of Holy Unction. It is freely available to all who desire it. You don't have to make a "seed" offering, or make any donations to support some "ministry"--it's there, freely, because God is always freely available through His holy Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Goodness! Do you really think you are so crucial to God's healing someone? Yikes!

See, do you really hear yourself? Why do you preach and teach--like you said you have for 20 years? Do you really believe that it makes a difference? Is it really that crucial for someone that you do? I would hope you think so, otherwise there is no point in doing it. It isn't a matter of being smug to think what God does through you has value. It is a matter of being obedient and knowing that God wouldn't have any of it done, if it didn't serve a purpose. Just like God can heal people without them being touched by another man, God can also wake people up without a preacher. God can make disciples, like He did Paul, without men. But, God chooses to use people much more often than not. It's God's choice, not mine. Doesn't He have that right in your theology, either?

I think if Jesus was standing in front of you, you would reject Him, too, while you were preaching and teaching about the very Jesus you were rejecting. The Pharisees did that, too.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Sure. But we don't force ourselves on sick people without knowing that the Holy Spirit is leading us, and that we have the sick person's permission to have hands laid on him.

I never do.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I don't know of any traditional church that profits off of Holy Unction. It is freely available to all who desire it. You don't have to make a "seed" offering, or make any donations to support some "ministry"--it's there, freely, because God is always freely available through His holy Church.

-CryptoLutheran

I think you need to be very careful in what you insinuate. You obviously love what you call the traditional churches. Some traditional churches mandate tithing to be a part of the group. When you have that income stream coming in, you don't need to take "donations" to support your ministry. They are required.

I don't ask for donations, offerings, seed. I don't like that either. I am with the One who says: "freely you have received, freely give." But, I don't know any churches that would exist today, if someone wasn't paying their bills by giving money. And many of those churches have a time they are teaching/preaching on tithing. How is that different? I even knew a pastor in one of your traditional churches that asked the council--of which I was asked to be the lay member of--"if they wanted him to go to the sugar daddies" to make up a budget shortfall. That certainly sounds "charlatan" to me. And, for more reasons than just going to some rich guy to beg for money.

 

[aiki]

I think in all you write, we agree on one thing: A truly changed heart is a far greater and much more significant miracle than any physical healing, raising from the dead, deliverance, miracle, prophesy or tongue. Without a person's heart being changed, those other things are superficial.

Amen!

And, that is why you do have a lot of counterfeits, because you have a lot of counterfeit conversions.

And again, amen!

That isn't limited to people and churches that believe in the gifts though, there are a lot of fake pastors who have a form of godliness without the power in churches full of tares that don't believe in the gifts!

Yes, sadly, this is very true.

Following your logic, since we all have the Scriptures, maybe we don't need pastors and teachers any more, either.

What logic is that, exactly?

Clearly there are a lot of false pastors and false teachers, so rather than allow the continued mockery of God's Word and True doctrine, maybe we humans should just decide, without any valid Scriptural reason, that the Holy Spirit stopped giving those, too.

*Sigh* But I haven't ever said the Holy Spirit has stopped giving spiritual gifts to God's children. This isn't implied in my remarks, either. Why do you keep tilting at this particular windmill?

We won't have preachers preaching opposite things on Sunday morning anymore, if we just get rid of them all, right?

I have no idea how any of this follows from the things I've written.

But, having been in both kinds of churches, I truly believe more genuine conversions take place in churches that see miracles than those who don't.

Well, I don't agree.

It is a whole lot easier to put on a show when you don't look foolish than when you have to be willing to look foolish for what you believe.

Goodness! This happens nearly every time I share the Gospel with someone! The preaching of the cross is, to those who are perishing, foolishness.

And, one way I certainly look foolish to a lot of people is when I offer to pray for people and they don't get healed.

How often did this happen to Christ? Was it a common occurrence for the disciples? As far as I can tell, both Christ and his disciples had an extremely high "batting average" when it came to healing. Why has this "batting average" dropped so significantly, do you think, among those who, like yourself, attempt healing for people?

Also, your practice of prayers for healing is not somehow made right by how foolish you feel when doing it. Sometimes, people feel foolish because they ought to.

So, every time I reach out past my uncomfortable introverted self and offer to pray for someone, I act and look foolish, because of my steadfast belief in God.

Yes, this is a common experience when walking with, and serving, God. He's not real keen on maintaining our comfort zones.

I will continue to do so, because God entrusted me with something. You stand against us. You need to really re-evaluate who you are truly working for.

So, you started your last post to me by complaining about my insulting you. Here, though, you are being yourself quite insulting. I stand against your thinking, yes. But it in no way follows that I am working for "someone" other than God. Here are some other of your rather insulting remarks:

You want to live with the traditions of men who didn't see God move like Scripture accounts for.

I would hope that you would do better than lay down in your dying theology.

And, even more interesting that you--an unbeliever with regards to all that the Scriptures teach--would quote 2 Tim 4:20, which was written by Paul.

If protecting your unbelief, much in the same way an atheist protects his unbelieve, makes you feel better, that is your choice.

but you speak like your lack of experience somehow places you above those who have experience--just like the atheist who thinks he can tell me that God doesn't exist when I know God exists and walk with Him.

including people who claim He doesn't even use healing regularly today and it shouldn't be a regular part of every Christian's doctrine. Jesus has a word for people like that. He said they were blind guides leading the blind into a ditch among other things.

And so on. Now, I am not particularly insulted by your attempts to be insulting. I point out these discourteous remarks only to highlight how inconsistent (other words come to mind here) you are when you complain about my "insulting" words. A bit of the pot calling the kettle black, I think.

Why do you preach and teach--like you said you have for 20 years? Do you really believe that it makes a difference?

I am merely being faithful to God's call. But I am in no way crucial to God's work. He can accomplish all that He intends to entirely without me if He wants to. I am not important in the least.

I would hope you think so, otherwise there is no point in doing it.

I do what I do in regards to preaching and teaching because God has called me to do it and I must be faithful to fulfill the responsibilities of His call as best I can. This is the point in doing what I do. God may use my efforts or He may not. Either way, I am to be faithful to His call.

Just like God can heal people without them being touched by another man, God can also wake people up without a preacher.

Amen.

But, God chooses to use people much more often than not.

But the important thing isn't the person but the God who uses them.

I think if Jesus was standing in front of you, you would reject Him, too, while you were preaching and teaching about the very Jesus you were rejecting. The Pharisees did that, too.

And more insults - from the guy who complains about being insulted.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Which suggests that physical healing was not a big priority for Christ.
I quite agree.
But, you know, Christ didn't approach the man at the Pool of Bethesda because he thought the guy had the faith to be healed. His only question to the lame man was, "Do you want to be healed?" It was an odd question, since everyone around the pool was hoping to be healed. Faith, though, didn't come into it. The lame guy didn't say, "I believe you can heal me, Jesus." He said only that he couldn't ever get into the pool in time to be healed. Jesus healed him anyway. The amount of faith the lame man had was not a factor in his being healed. A very different approach from modern "healers" who make healing contingent upon the sick person's faith.
Yes, "interesting" is the word.
Oh, I didn't say he ought to heal everyone. Just one would be sufficient. Surely, with the healing record the OP has, healing one child dying of cancer should be a piece of cake. But, as far as my experience goes, those enthusing stridently over miraculous healing never take up this sort of challenge. Interesting (to use your word), no?
But a divinely-appointed apostle of the Early Church, taught the doctrines of the faith directly by revelation of Christ, and established in his office of apostle by miraculous deeds. Not so ordinary, I think.

There was a higher priority for Jesus, and when the 70 disciples came back rejoicing that even the demons were subject to them, He said that it was great, but rejoice more that "your names are written in the book of Life". So, getting people's names into the book of Life was the greatest priority for Jesus. Getting people healed was one of the ways He increased people's faith in Him to achieve His prime objective.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think you may misunderstand me. It isn't out of pride that I talk about what I talk about. I don't try to promote my name. I promote Jesus Christ, His Father, and His Holy Spirit. I share what I share, because for too long, people have endured others claiming things that are verifiably false as if that is okay for the sake of unity. What unity can you really have with someone who doesn't believe what you know to be real. It is almost like a True Christian trying to maintain unity with a Jew or Muslim who doesn't believe Jesus was who He said He was. I share what I share to openly challenge a major deception that has been allowed to be around for toooooooooo long! Too many people are willing to allow the Holy Spirit to be stripped of what God empowered him to do in and through believers. And, too many who know, let it slide in an effort to maintain unity with people who think they are frauds at best and of the d**** at worst. You can't maintain unity with that.

I never said that you acted out of pride. I just wanted to share something the Lord showed me that I should have learned 52 years ago! It is significant to me that every time I have tried to be "somebody" things have happened to keep me as a "nobody". I have just finished spending the last 18 years being an elder of my church, preacher, worship leader, and treasurer. Then something happened which caused me to leave that church. Now, after all this time, I am back to being a "nobody" again. I think that the Lord gave me that little two line poem to remind me and to encourage me that I am in a better place with the Lord being a "nobody" and He has been trying to teach me that for most of my Christian walk!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Johnny go back and read where Peter and John were at the gate beautiful. I am 57 and that verse STILL stick outs pops out shines.. SO strange. Notice they never once prayed asked Jesus God holy Spirit ANYTHING. "what I have give I unto you.in JESUS NAME" what did they have that you don't? We keep reading and find them saying "you look at us as if we did this under our own power..its faith in that name"

For give me you said "I would love to say that God heals everyone I touch. But, truthfully, I don't see that. " We walk by? Faith not sight not how we feel. If they don't say .. I always ask.. "what can you believe". Yet look at the man Peter and John prayed for. They didn't ask him what he could believe. They KNEW he wanted money.. "we don't have any silver or gold".. yet the man was ASKING. God took that..

And how is our walk.. praying in and about ALL things? Are we walking in 1st cor 13? Our mind.. what are we thinking.. like Phil letter said?

Falling.. yeah.. I would be hard pressed to tell who really falls because of God. For me.. when I was young. A preacher came to our Church. See I had hmm just got out of .. was a bad kid..leave it there. Worked at the same place my mom did. I heard her on the phone talk about people falling.. I said.. can I come? So that Friday.. the man said "any one here want to experience the power of God come up. So I did.. I was standing there... no fear no worry.. the mans back was to me.. he turned around put ONE finger on my forehead and... next think I know I open my eyes and I am on the ground.. I go to get up.. the power of God hit my feet shot into my chest.. PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS... WOW it was SO wonderful so awesome..

That HAHA I kept trying to get up to get that to happen again.. NO it NEVER did. I was smoking at the time to.. went up for that. The only other time was with a preacher praying for those called.. I went up.. yet this time he was not asking anything just put hands on and pray. So just before he got to me .. I said FOR THE ANONITING... and had both hands up.. was as if I stuck my are in a huge... it hit my fingers to my hand all the way down my arm... again praise GOD was so wonderful.. I give all praise and glory to God...

You find in OTHER countries this kind of thing happens ALL the time. In the USA its ALLOT harder.. just read in this thread alone.. bless there heart but.. most do not BELIEVE. And the holy Spirit said.. if you doubt let not that man think he will get anything from God. Same thing happen when Jesus went into some town.. all this son of GOD with NO limit to the holy Spirit could do was lay hands on some and teach because of doubt. For me I read in John when they came to get Jesus.. as soon as He said I AM HE they fell back wards to the ground.

I take it as its written. YES I have heard MAN try to say what that REALLY means.. what that REALLY is... pass. What I KNOW that I know that I know is.. when this GOD comes around and His glory and His presence... TRY TO STAND! GO for it! No one can... IF He shows up like that. In a book I read once.. a bunch of young people were all praying.. the leader said.. he opened his eyes and saw one girl just fall.... he goes over ask her if shes ok.. she said. "I open my eyes and saw Jesus over there".. and that was it haha. Did not JESUS say where 2 or there are gathered I AM THERE?

Do you guys go to CHURCH? Do you gather in HIS name? Can He lie.. you cant see Him but HELLO HE IS THERE! Just believe the WORD not man not me.. JUST BELIEVE! HE is the truth.. seek Him you will NEVER get lost.. He His word.. the fruits of the spirit ..walk in 1st Cor 13.. think on HIM all the time.. love forgive show mercy as HE always shows you.. and be like a child.. He IS moving all over this world. doing more GOOD then ALL the bad.. WHAT are you always thinking about.. watching saying? Is it ALL HIM? His eyes STILL go to and fro over the earth.. HE HEARS YOU!

I just love your post! Shows me what a wonderful Saviour we have!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have faith that your analysis is wrong.

You can't be serious!