Healing through the laying on of hands is for today

[Pethesedzao]

Why just healing and not raising people from the dead?

That would come under the Gift of Miracles (10 To another the working of miracles)

 

[devin553344]

It is so sad that such a topic has to be put in controversial theology. This should be a mainstay of our beliefs. But, we have dummed down the "normal" beliefs to account for the theology of those who are too blinded by pride to see the Truth.

The thing about the kids I work with is they didn't come from a Christian background. They aren't taught and weren't taught to "fake it til you make it" or pretend to fall over so you fit in. Their crowd is rebellious, wants to hate God because of the situation they are in. They would love nothing more than to be able to say: "I told you that it wasn't real" after I finished a prayer for healing. But, God excuses them for their ignorance and God heals them anyway.

I would love to say that God heals everyone I touch. But, truthfully, I don't see that. For a long time I struggled with that. But, God--Who is the Giver of Gifts--is the One with the plan, not me. He has wisdom and knowledge way above mine. He knows what is most beneficial to His kingdom and in some cases the faith of the individual who doesn't see what they are believing for and continues to believe may be more important to His kingdom. Or it could be that their healing was a work prepared for another unknown Christian who just has to listen to the Spirit tell him or her to step out and start praying for the sick. It is certainly abundantly clear in the Scripture for those with ears to hear.

But, that is God's business. My business is to make sure I don't bury the talent He gives me to use to for His glory.

And then there are conversations I have with adults who want to live a doubting Thomas life, but will never be happy regardless of the proof they see. Jesus said "A wicked and perverse generation seeks a sign." It doesn't mean Jesus stopped providing signs; He just wouldn't do them on the demand of the unbelievers who wanted Him to prove who He was!

A kid who doesn't believe in God (or want to because he is angry about his situation) and "doesn't believe in that crap" (healing prayer) encounters the very "crap" (healing prayer), he demands he doesn't believe in? And, that "crap" is done very clearly in Jesus' Name and God is exalted when the healing has been received, not the man it came through. The focus should be on helping that child to know God lives him or her and wants to have a living relationship with him or her also. The focus is on the wrong person, if the prayer has to run to get proof of the healing that left that kid's jaw dropped when it happened. And, yet that is the ridiculousness of the unbeliever who claims to know Christ Jesus, but walks away from every supernatural sign that He says others will see to know who is genuinely His.

I have heard it said of atheists (and I agree): "Their lack of belief in hell doesn't make it any more bearable for them there." Jesus also said "unbelievers" will not be found in heaven. Jesus defined what signs would follow believers (Mark 16:16-18) Notice, He told us to preach; but "preaching" wasn't a sign of belief. Unbelievers are preaching in "church" pulpits today. I've known some. One even asked his "church council", when they were concerned about budgetary shortfall: "Do you want me to go to the sugar daddies?" Nothing supernatural about that.

I've seen people healed with laying on of hands. I've seen the ultra sounds that proved it too. Heard the doctors shock when the healing happened.

 

[devin553344]

Why just healing and not raising people from the dead?

You mean like this: Mom prays, dead son comes back to life

 

[Monk Brendan]

It is so sad that such a topic has to be put in controversial theology. This should be a mainstay of our beliefs. But, we have dummed down the "normal" beliefs to account for the theology of those who are too blinded by pride to see the Truth.

The thing about the kids I work with is they didn't come from a Christian background. They aren't taught and weren't taught to "fake it til you make it" or pretend to fall over so you fit in. Their crowd is rebellious, wants to hate God because of the situation they are in. They would love nothing more than to be able to say: "I told you that it wasn't real" after I finished a prayer for healing. But, God excuses them for their ignorance and God heals them anyway.

I would love to say that God heals everyone I touch. But, truthfully, I don't see that. For a long time I struggled with that. But, God--Who is the Giver of Gifts--is the One with the plan, not me. He has wisdom and knowledge way above mine. He knows what is most beneficial to His kingdom and in some cases the faith of the individual who doesn't see what they are believing for and continues to believe may be more important to His kingdom. Or it could be that their healing was a work prepared for another unknown Christian who just has to listen to the Spirit tell him or her to step out and start praying for the sick. It is certainly abundantly clear in the Scripture for those with ears to hear.

But, that is God's business. My business is to make sure I don't bury the talent He gives me to use to for His glory.

And then there are conversations I have with adults who want to live a doubting Thomas life, but will never be happy regardless of the proof they see. Jesus said "A wicked and perverse generation seeks a sign." It doesn't mean Jesus stopped providing signs; He just wouldn't do them on the demand of the unbelievers who wanted Him to prove who He was!

A kid who doesn't believe in God (or want to because he is angry about his situation) and "doesn't believe in that crap" (healing prayer) encounters the very "crap" (healing prayer), he demands he doesn't believe in? And, that "crap" is done very clearly in Jesus' Name and God is exalted when the healing has been received, not the man it came through. The focus should be on helping that child to know God lives him or her and wants to have a living relationship with him or her also. The focus is on the wrong person, if the prayer has to run to get proof of the healing that left that kid's jaw dropped when it happened. And, yet that is the ridiculousness of the unbeliever who claims to know Christ Jesus, but walks away from every supernatural sign that He says others will see to know who is genuinely His.

I have heard it said of atheists (and I agree): "Their lack of belief in hell doesn't make it any more bearable for them there." Jesus also said "unbelievers" will not be found in heaven. Jesus defined what signs would follow believers (Mark 16:16-18) Notice, He told us to preach; but "preaching" wasn't a sign of belief. Unbelievers are preaching in "church" pulpits today. I've known some. One even asked his "church council", when they were concerned about budgetary shortfall: "Do you want me to go to the sugar daddies?" Nothing supernatural about that.

I don't know who you mean by "we," but the Pre-reformation churches have always had this, though more usually we anoint with specially blessed oil.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

The Gift of healingS

The other way round, brother.

1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

No, I have not. I have spoken in tongues on one occasion. But I don't have the gift.

The laying on of hands is God's gift to the Church. There is no reason to fear it.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Why just healing and not raising people from the dead?

I think you will find there are those being raised from the dead, however it is better to deal with sickness before death, would you not agree? What would your doctor say if you waited till your wife or husband died then took the body to him saying, make them live again?

 

[Pethesedzao]

The other way round, brother.

1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

What translation r u reading?

 

[Pethesedzao]

The other way round, brother.

1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

You're right, my apologies

 

[aiki]

It is so sad that such a topic has to be put in controversial theology. This should be a mainstay of our beliefs.

Why? Why should it be a "mainstay" of Christian belief? It is certainly something God does on occasion, but when I think of a "mainstay" of Christianity I think of the Gospel, the Trinity, the Second Coming of Christ, the Lord's Table, Baptism, and the Final Judgment, not healing. On what basis should healing stand on par with these pillars, these "mainstays" of Christian belief?

But, we have dummed down the "normal" beliefs to account for the theology of those who are too blinded by pride to see the Truth.

How do you know any of this? Proof, please (as opposed to your personal feeling).

Their crowd is rebellious, wants to hate God because of the situation they are in.

Actually, they want to hate God because of their wicked, self-centered hearts. (Jeremiah 17:9; Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 1:21)

I would love to say that God heals everyone I touch. But, truthfully, I don't see that. For a long time I struggled with that.

Why would you struggle with this? Why should God heal everyone you touch?

He knows what is most beneficial to His kingdom and in some cases the faith of the individual who doesn't see what they are believing for and continues to believe may be more important to His kingdom. Or it could be that their healing was a work prepared for another unknown Christian who just has to listen to the Spirit tell him or her to step out and start praying for the sick. It is certainly abundantly clear in the Scripture for those with ears to hear.

Or, maybe God doesn't use healing at every turn because it isn't a vital part of how He interacts with us. Epaphroditus fell deathly ill but did not receive miraculous healing (Philippians 2:25-27); neither did Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20); Paul recommended a little wine as a medicinal for Timothy's stomach, not healing (1 Timothy 5:23); and Dorcas (aka Tabitha) a faithful disciple of Jesus became ill and died. She was not miraculously healed by her fellow disciples of Christ nor was she able to heal herself. (Ac. 9:36, 37) Peter, however, arrived and in his special position as an apostle successfully appealed to God to resurrect her from the dead. Why, if healing is a mainstay of Christian living, did these people not get healed immediately upon falling ill?

And then there are conversations I have with adults who want to live a doubting Thomas life, but will never be happy regardless of the proof they see. Jesus said "A wicked and perverse generation seeks a sign." It doesn't mean Jesus stopped providing signs; He just wouldn't do them on the demand of the unbelievers who wanted Him to prove who He was!

This isn't what Jesus said, though. He said that those who seek for miraculous supernatural proofs of God (aka "signs") are wicked and perverse. How many who want healings at every turn and suggest that a Christian isn't really living in faith when he doesn't want the same, are seeking after a sign? In my experience, every single one. Any spiritual gift that makes you look down your nose at your brothers and sisters in Christ and despise them as "doubting Thomases" is not, I think, from God.

The focus should be on helping that child to know God lives him or her and wants to have a living relationship with him or her also.

Healing isn't necessary to pursuing - or achieving - this end. Paul points to Creation, and to conscience, and to Scripture as the primary means through which God reveals Himself. Paul says nothing at all, though, of the importance of God revealing Himself through miraculous healing. Nothing.

The focus is on the wrong person, if the prayer has to run to get proof of the healing that left that kid's jaw dropped when it happened.

If you want to claim a miracle happened, then you need to be prepared to prove it. If you can't, the skepticism of others is entirely warranted.

Jesus defined what signs would follow believers (Mark 16:16-18)

"Follow" is not "define." Those signs listed in Mark 16:16-18 do not define a believer, or even certify that they are one. And Jesus does not say that such signs will be the common everyday experience of a believer, either.

Notice, He told us to preach; but "preaching" wasn't a sign of belief.

Preaching is not a sign of unbelief, either. It is more likely to be an indicator of belief than not, I think. Preaching the Gospel was certainly what the first born-again believers did when the Spirit baptized them into Christ. (Acts 2)

Unbelievers are preaching in "church" pulpits today.

Yes, and so are believers.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Why? Why should it be a "mainstay" of Christian belief? It is certainly something God does on occasion, but when I think of a "mainstay" of Christianity I think of the Gospel, the Trinity, the Second Coming of Christ, the Lord's Table, Baptism, and the Final Judgment, not healing. On what basis should healing stand on par with these pillars, these "mainstays" of Christian belief?



How do you know any of this? Proof, please (as opposed to your personal feeling).



Actually, they want to hate God because of their wicked, self-centered hearts. (Jeremiah 17:9; Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 1:21)



Why would you struggle with this? Why should God heal everyone you touch?



Or, maybe God doesn't use healing at every turn because it isn't a vital part of how He interacts with us. Epaphroditus fell deathly ill but did not receive miraculous healing (Philippians 2:25-27); neither did Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20); Paul recommended a little wine as a medicinal for Timothy's stomach, not healing (1 Timothy 5:23); and Dorcas (aka Tabitha) a faithful disciple of Jesus becomes ill and dies. She is not miraculously healed by her fellow disciples of Christ nor is she able to heal herself. (Ac. 9:36, 37) Peter, however, arrives and in his special position as an apostle successfully appeals to God to resurrect her from the dead. Why, if healing is a mainstay of Christian living, do these people not get healed immediately upon falling ill?



This isn't what Jesus said, though. He said that those who seek for miraculous supernatural proofs of God (aka "signs") are wicked and perverse. How many who want healings at every turn and suggest that a Christian isn't really living in faith when he doesn't want the same, are seeking after a sign? In my experience, every single one. Any spiritual gift that makes you look down your nose at your brothers and sisters in Christ and despise them as "doubting Thomases" is not, I think, from God.



Healing isn't necessary to pursuing - or achieving - this end. Paul points to Creation, and to conscience, and to Scripture as the primary means through which God reveals Himself. Paul says nothing at all, though, of the importance of God revealing Himself through miraculous healing. Nothing.



If you want to claim a miracle happened, then you need to be prepared to prove it. If you can't, the skepticism of others is entirely warranted.



"Follow" is not "define." Those signs listed in Mark 16:16-18 do not define a believer, or even certify that they are one. And Jesus does not say that such signs will be the common everyday experience of a believer, either.



Preaching is not a sign of unbelief, either. It is more likely to be an indicator of belief than not, I think. Preaching the Gospel was certainly what the first born-again believers did when the Spirit baptized them into Christ. (Acts 2)



Yes, and so are believers.

You want to live with the traditions of men who didn't see God move like Scripture accounts for. I understand, you wear the tag. Go for it. But, don't think you have God with you on that. If you do believe you and your theology are right, I will speak for God and tell you that you are wrong without hesitation!

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I see a distinction between "healing" and "curing". To me, healing occurs at the spiritual and/or psychological level whereas curing is physical. One is possible, the other is not.

And you would be wrong. Both are not only possible with God, but happen with God.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Laying on of hands is definitely one of the ways God's heals. And yes, there are counterfeit healings or instances where people are confused about whether they are healed. One minister I read, recently suggested that we do not see as many healings today in the USA as we did in the past because many Christians are not as committed. Of course God can heal anyplace at anytime, but we need to pray more and not be so casual to expect God to visit our services.

The sad thing is that there are some who expect God is blessing their services and their people, but don't allow Him to do what He wants to do in their lives to make them walking testimonies for Him. They reject what He wants to do, because they don't want to look silly. It is a real shame. Scripture refers to them as "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" and Scripture rightly instructs us "from such turn away", because if we don't, we might get caught into their deceptions. Who could it be that has a form of godliness, but denies the power? It certainly isn't those who pray for the sick, like Scripture instructs, and see them healed.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

It is impossible for healing to be done for others to see. It can happen for you, but not in a way that others without faith can experience.

Huh? I don't understand what you are saying. I have seen people without faith healed. I have seen people without faith see someone they trusted get healed and it messes them up. But, there are those who will find every excuse to not believe. Too bad for them.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Huh? I don't understand what you are saying. I have seen people without faith healed. I have seen people without faith see someone they trusted get healed and it messes them up. But, there are those who will find every excuse to not believe. Too bad for them.

In the main, according to your faith so be it

 

[Pethesedzao]

Without faith it is impossible to please ?

 

[Pethesedzao]

At the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow. Preach Christ crucified and devils will have to bow...

 

[aiki]

You want to live with the traditions of men who didn't see God move like Scripture accounts for. I understand, you wear the tag. Go for it. But, don't think you have God with you on that. If you do believe you and your theology are right, I will speak for God and tell you that you are wrong without hesitation!

Kinda' figured this would be the route you'd take in response. Ah, well. You can lead a horse to water...

Anyway, you can "speak for God" all you like, but I'm not the least convinced that you actually do. My last post lays out why.

2 Timothy 4:20
20 ...Trophimus I have left in Miletus sick.

 

[Not David]

You want to live with the traditions of men who didn't see God move like Scripture accounts for. I understand, you wear the tag. Go for it. But, don't think you have God with you on that. If you do believe you and your theology are right, I will speak for God and tell you that you are wrong without hesitation!

Tradition of men is an ironic strawman.

 

[Not David]

The Orthodox Church has a big history of miracle making but we don't proclaim it as the most essential part of our teachings. However, my main problem with healing by laying hands is the accusation that someone didn't get healed because he/she didn't have enough faith or were sinners.