Healing as a command

[ByTheSpirit]

When we read through the Gospels and come across accounts where Jesus sent out His 12 disciples (even the 72 in Luke 10) we see He tells them to preach the gospel and heal the sick and cast out demons....

Now I've heard many times preachers preach that we should share the gospel with others and they cite those passages as proof, but they never, ever mention the other half of the equation which is a command given to us by the Lord, HEAL the sick and CAST OUT demons when the gospel is preached.

Now I believe the purpose of those manifestations of the Lord's power are to confirm the Word and express in a practical way God's Love for us, but what do you think?

They are commands, that is undeniable. It doesn't say if you feel like it, or if your hands feel anointed, it says to heal the sick and cast out demons when you preach the gospel.

So also why do you feel this isn't taught anymore, or atleast I haven't heard healing and "exorcism" being taught as commands, just a couple of manifestations in a couple dozen that the Holy Spirit gives us.

 

[Biblicist]

You've raised a few important issues but considering the hour I think that I might go away and think about what you've said and reply tomorrow.

 

[jamadan]

We realized the same thing and decided to do something about it. We got a few local churches in our communion together and rented out a centrally-located Hilton ballroom and started conducting healing services to teach on healing and pray for the sick. We hold monthly meetings that started off with just 20 people which have now grown to over 200 just using Faceboook and word of mouth. It's not based on personalities. Just lifting up Christ and praying for the sick. Our prayers often take the form of commands and result in deliverance about half the time. Really seeing some cool things and our churches are growing as the lost are also being dragged there by friends and then getting saved. We found that meeting in a neutral location like the hotel makes it non-threatening to people.

 

[Biblicist]

So also why do you feel this isn't taught anymore, or atleast I haven't heard healing and "exorcism" being taught as commands, just a couple of manifestations in a couple dozen that the Holy Spirit gives us.

I think that maybe we need to be able to have “the goods” on display in our “stores” before we try and sell a product to the world. Sadly, all too often, even when we are able to actually see a few brightly coloured boxes on the shelves, all they end up being is some poor quality import that doesn’t perform as advertised.

How much easier it is to simply present a seeker-sensitive ethos to our communities where we are able to provide some superb entertainment through well orchestrated ‘sound and light’ shows. For those who may have forgotten or who may be new in the Lord, we used to call this type of activity ‘praise and worship’ meetings where the congregation (now more often referred to as ‘the crowd’) was able to worship their Lord in Spirit and in truth; now the ‘crowd’ simply watches a performance by a handful of entertainers on the Sunday stage (which used to be called a platform) with little more than blank faces.

Now that I’ve finished my satirical meanderings, it would certainly be great to be able to see the power of God not only working in our meetings but also as we witness to our neighbours. To move over to the other side of the coin, even though we should be desiring to demonstrate the power of God to areas that have never encountered the Gospel, this should also be accompanied by lives that are themselves a demonstration of the life changing power of God and this would probably be a greater testimony to our neighbours; not that I am trying to present an “either-or” scenario.

Even though I am certainly no fan of the seeker-sensitive ethos, I can certainly understand how tempting this powerless approach can be for many salaried church staffers, it certainly makes their lives (at least superficially) somewhat less complicated and certainly it takes away the need to walk a life that is dependent on the Spirit.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"So also why do you feel this isn't taught anymore".

Simple - It DOESN'T WORK, YOU can't do it, and neither can I - and so folks aren't gonna make fools of themselves trying to DO what they KNOW they Can't do.

You need to consider the CONTEXT of the command, too. It was a SPECIFIC Commissioning of people WHO WEREN'T EVEN CHRISTIANS in the present sense of the term. they WERE NOT indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and were no more than "Old TEstament Saints" - looking forward to Messiah.

It wouldn't be sensable to "assume" that a SPECIFIC command by the Lord (which included other features) for SPECIFIC group of people, for a SPECIFIC point in time can be used in 2012 - unless we are SPECIFICALLY enabled by the Holy Spirit to minister the same thing.

 

[Faulty]

When we read through the Gospels and come across accounts where Jesus sent out His 12 disciples (even the 72 in Luke 10) we see He tells them to preach the gospel and heal the sick and cast out demons....

Now I've heard many times preachers preach that we should share the gospel with others and they cite those passages as proof, but they never, ever mention the other half of the equation which is a command given to us by the Lord, HEAL the sick and CAST OUT demons when the gospel is preached.

Now I believe the purpose of those manifestations of the Lord's power are to confirm the Word and express in a practical way God's Love for us, but what do you think?

They are commands, that is undeniable. It doesn't say if you feel like it, or if your hands feel anointed, it says to heal the sick and cast out demons when you preach the gospel.

So also why do you feel this isn't taught anymore, or atleast I haven't heard healing and "exorcism" being taught as commands, just a couple of manifestations in a couple dozen that the Holy Spirit gives us.

Another part of that command is shared in Matt 10, and that was also to not go to any Gentiles. So, if one will strive to abide by that entire command, as if it were given to them personally, then only go to the Jews.

 

[K2K]

I don't know about others, but I have heard it preached that we are all to go heal the sick and cast out demons. Still, I'm not sure it was preached correctly. We see the Lord send out the twelve and the seventy (which does kind of seem to indicate a complere number), but does that mean that every Christian is to go do like wise?

We also see where different gifts are given to the body. So I think that the Lord needs to send whoever He wishes and who He knows its time to send them, and it is not a general commandment for every believer.

If we look at Luke 10:16 "The one who listens to you listens to Me..." we see that there is a connection made with listening. We might interprete that to mean that every word coming out of the mouth of any believer is from the Lord, but experience seems to indicate that is not the case. I think that before the Lord sends someone out to cast out demons and heal the sick, they must first be able to hear His small voice talking to them in words they can pick up, and it seems that not all believers are that advanced in their relationship with the Lord.

It's also written "With their ears they barely hear and with their eyes they don't see, otherwise they would turn back to me and I would heal them."

Again, a new believer doesn't seem to start off hearing the Lord very well. Indeed, so often I tell even experienced believers about how the Lord sometimes tells me which chapter and verse He wants me to turn to, and they indicate that they can not hear His voice like that. So I while I believe that He is trying to get all believers to listen to Him and teach to mature them, I don't think that all believers should be told to go heal the sick and cast out demons straight off. A bit of wisdom from the voice of the Lord is probably necessary before sending every Christian out to do that.

 

[GreatistheLord]

Matt 28:20

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

The commission tells us to do what the disciples were commanded to do, no
mention of IT DOESNT WORK, just do it, and leave the rest to God.

 

[K2K]

Matt 28:20

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

The commission tells us to do what the disciples were commanded to do, no
mention of IT DOESNT WORK, just do it, and leave the rest to God.

Does "make disciples of all nations" mean making the nations our disciples or His disciples?

If it means making the nations our disciples, then we can conclude that we can live by the instructions in the Bible, and don't have need to talk to Him.

But if it means making disciples for Him, then it means teaching them to obey Him, just like He commanded you. Then they must listen for His voice speaking to them.

There is something in the Scriptures about men traveling the world looking to make disciples for themselves. I believe we need to make it clear that we are not trying to make disciples for ourselves, but rather that they need to become His disciples, which requires them listening to Him.

Jesus told Satan that man must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. God is always with us, so how often should we hear from someone who is always with you?

Jesus said there would be many that healed the sick in His name, but in that day He was going to them them He never knew them.

We are not telling people to go heal the sick, but rather we are telling people to listen to the Lord. If they listen to Him, He will teach them! It is written that they will all be taught of God.

If they are taught by God, they will be taught to read and study the Bible, and they will be told to heal the sick at times. Jesus healed the sick, and at times He healed all the sick that were brought to Him, but was that all He did? Was that His real purpose? He said He did only what the Father told Him! And there is also something written about there being a time for everything under the sun.

Yeah - if you are His disciple, you will be told to go heal the sick. Yet you are not His disciple if you are not listening to Him!!!

 

[GreatistheLord]

we need both, and we need to be realistic too. young christians need the scriptures explaining to them, they need to be deprogrammed from "religion". we all need Godly mentors, and the Bible has good examples of mentoring.

 

[MikeBigg]

So also why do you feel this isn't taught anymore, or atleast I haven't heard healing and "exorcism" being taught as commands, just a couple of manifestations in a couple dozen that the Holy Spirit gives us.

I have heard it taught, and I have taught it myself, but never in a "standard" sunday morning church service and not that often in Charismatic-only circles.

I think the only real way to teach this is to demonstrate it - I wonder if church leaders aren't comfortable putting their reputation on the line, should God not turn up. I was heard a guy in our church preaching from a passage in Mark's gospel which included some miracles and healings and some other bits and pieces. My heart leapt when I heard the passage read out and thought we caould be in for a good morninig. Only to find he completely ignored the miraculous and ended up speaking about being nice to your work-mates. Any self-help book could tell you that. What a waste.

Also, i think the whole commanding prayer stuff is from word of faith, which for some charismatics is a bit too close to name it and claim it and prosperity gospel stuff, so throw the baby out with the bath water.

Mike

 

[Willie T]

I think, perhaps, you may have been hanging around the wrong churches to hear about those things.

Watch this all the way through.. http://www.christianforums.com/t7696133/

 

[MikeBigg]

Was that comment aimed at me?

A 1 hour video!? - a summary would be nice.

Mike

 

[Willie T]

Was that comment aimed at me?

A 1 hour video!? - a summary would be nice.

Mike

No, if you don't want it enough.... you don't want it.

(The reply was directed to anyone thinking healing is not preached.)

 

[MikeBigg]

No, if you don't want it enough.... you don't want it.

(The reply was directed to anyone thinking healing is not preached.)

What a stupid thing to say. How can I know if I want it if I don't know what's its about.

Healing certainly is not preached much in the churches I associate with. I have given my suspicions as to why. That certainly doesn't mean I think healing is never preached or that I never hear preaching on it.

And remember this thread is in the charismatic-non-WoF section.

 

[Willie T]

What a stupid thing to say. How can I know if I want it if I don't know what's its about.

Healing certainly is not preached much in the churches I associate with. I have given my suspicions as to why. That certainly doesn't mean I think healing is never preached or that I never hear preaching on it.

And remember this thread is in the charismatic-non-WoF section.

Ok, let's take a wild guess...... What might this video be about?

Since this post is about the OP feeling churches don't preach healing.... do you suppose that might be what it is about? Hummm... maybe.

And what is this WoF comment? Healing is not WoF, at all.

 

[MikeBigg]

Ok, let's take a wild guess...... What might this video be about?

Since this post is about the OP feeling churches don't preach healing.... do you suppose that might be what it is about? Hummm... maybe.

And what is this WoF comment? Healing is not WoF, at all.

You are showing yourself to be less clever than you are.

Healing is such a big topic it could be anything from shyster preachers to solid and sound. It could have been testimonies, demonstrations, theoretical nonsense from a bunch of brethren sessationists or some new age slant on kosha theology.

All it needed was a sentence like - this is Fred Flintstones teaching on healing with dinosaur eggs - and we'd have known.

Instead you come back with stupidity and sarcasm.

I know healing is more than WoF, but commanding healing, which is in the title of the thread, is WoF.

 

[CGL1023]

When we read through the Gospels and come across accounts where Jesus sent out His 12 disciples (even the 72 in Luke 10) we see He tells them to preach the gospel and heal the sick and cast out demons....

Now I've heard many times preachers preach that we should share the gospel with others and they cite those passages as proof, but they never, ever mention the other half of the equation which is a command given to us by the Lord, HEAL the sick and CAST OUT demons when the gospel is preached.

Now I believe the purpose of those manifestations of the Lord's power are to confirm the Word and express in a practical way God's Love for us, but what do you think?

They are commands, that is undeniable. It doesn't say if you feel like it, or if your hands feel anointed, it says to heal the sick and cast out demons when you preach the gospel.

So also why do you feel this isn't taught anymore, or atleast I haven't heard healing and "exorcism" being taught as commands, just a couple of manifestations in a couple dozen that the Holy Spirit gives us.

I am positive that if there were more healings, deliverances and other manifestations of the Holy Spirit gifts there would be huge numbers of unsaved people clamoring to join the ranks of the believers. I think an exceptional person, with huge faith and virtue, is needed to heal the sick cleanse the leper, raise the dead and cast out devils. We have already seen Jesus, and the disciples as such individuals. I think such a combination is hard to find in the average church leader. Its absence would go far in explaining why healing and "exorcism" is so rare. And yes, these are commands. See Mt 10:7-8, Mk 16:17-20 and Lk 10:19.

 

[MikeBigg]

I am positive that if there were more healings, deliverances and other manifestations of the Holy Spirit gifts there would be huge numbers of unsaved people clamoring to join the ranks of the believers.

I love the account in Acts 5: 12- which has everyone healed and many coming to faith:

12 The apostles performed many signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade. 13 No one else dared join them, even though they were highly regarded by the people. 14 Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number. 15 As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. 16 Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by impure spirits, and all of them were healed.

I think an exceptional person, with huge faith and virtue, is needed to heal the sick cleanse the leper, raise the dead and cast out devils. We have already seen Jesus, and the disciples as such individuals. I think such a combination is hard to find in the average church leader. Its absence would go far in explaining why healing and "exorcism" is so rare.

I think what we should be looking to is not just church leaders involved in this, but everyone in the church. I like the fact that Jesus sent the 12, but he also sent the 72 with the same job specification.

I also think that the passage in Acts 5 that I quoted could (maybe should) be the model for how the church operates - they all performed signs and wonders - many were added to their number - all who were brought were healed. So its not just one person in the church, but everyone - so the task is divided.

Regards,

Mike

ps I've typed something like this somewhere recently. I hope it wasn't in this thread and I'm starting to repeat myself.

 

[tobethebest]

I question why such believers aren't walking the halls of the hospitals and laying hands on those with epilepsy, chronic pain, leukemia, paralysis, deaf, dumb, blind, bipolar, viral or bacterial meningitis, broken bones, brain dead, battle wounded, victims of car accidents, bed sores, panic attacks, fatigue, insomnia, sleep apnea, jungle rot, lupus, cerebal palsy, MS, MD, COPD, PTSD, pneumonia, bleeding ulcers, heart disease, lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, uteran cancer, kidney failure, liver disease, prostate cancer, colon cancer, throat cancer, knee replacements, neuropathy, fibromyalgia, skin disease, cleft palate, ............it seems to me these folks are greatly needed at these places. Never have I witnessed a born-again Christian called into a healing ministry, ever present in any hospital at any time. Not Benny Hinn, not Kenneth Copeland, not (in his lifetime) Smith Wigglesworth, Bosworth, Osbourne, Oral Roberts, Ernest Angsley, Kenneth Hagin, etc. etc. etc. That to me is their mission field, not a progression of teleevangelistic enterprises that establishes their personal wealth.