Head Coverings and Proper Church Attire

[Rusviking876]

I noticed on my pilgrimage to Russia that no woman entered a church without covering her head as Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition dictate. Contrast that with American Orthodox churches today in which a minority of women cover their heads (at least in my experience). This is only one example of Church authority being undermined. Not exclusively criticizing women as there are men who dress in shortsleeved t-shirts going to church.

Even with a century of the communist tampering with the church we always hear about, the Russian Orthodox Church is a lot more solid on this issue.

In an American context, how might we improve this situation diplomatically yet forcefully?

 

[jahel]

I noticed on my pilgrimage to Russia that no woman entered a church without covering her head as Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition dictate. Contrast that with American Orthodox churches today in which a minority of women cover their heads (at least in my experience). This is only one example of Church authority being undermined. Not exclusively criticizing women as there are men who dress in shortsleeved t-shirts going to church.

Even with a century of the communist tampering with the church we always hear about, the Russian Orthodox Church is a lot more solid on this issue.

In an American context, how might we improve this situation diplomatically yet forcefully?

Set a dress code for men in 3-piece suits only.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I noticed on my pilgrimage to Russia that no woman entered a church without covering her head as Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition dictate. Contrast that with American Orthodox churches today in which a minority of women cover their heads (at least in my experience). This is only one example of Church authority being undermined. Not exclusively criticizing women as there are men who dress in shortsleeved t-shirts going to church.

Even with a century of the communist tampering with the church we always hear about, the Russian Orthodox Church is a lot more solid on this issue.

In an American context, how might we improve this situation diplomatically yet forcefully?

you allow the bishops to figure this out, as it's their job to interpret and apply the canons.

 

[dzheremi]

At my old parish, there was a sign by the door listing the rules for communion in Arabic and English. One of them was "The worshiper dresses appropriately to meet the Lord." Seemed to work fine. Direct, with the proper focus on why we are to do this, and reinforced by the community behavior (Coptic women veil voluntarily, so if you show up without a veil for whatever reason they'll be happy to get you one so that you can be properly dressed).

 

[Rusviking876]

you allow the bishops to figure this out, as it's their job to interpret and apply the canons.

Of course, but the bishop cannot go everything especially with his responsibilities to tend to his jurisdiction’s finances. I see my bishop maybe once a year. Does the matter need to go that high up? It’s a very day-to-day ‘culture war’ issue.

In Russia, it just seemed the laypeople by the door of most churches wouldn’t let you in if you weren’t dressed right. And they had head coverings for the ladies there.

 

[Rusviking876]

At my old parish, there was a sign by the door listing the rules for communion in Arabic and English. One of them was "The worshiper dresses appropriately to meet the Lord." Seemed to work fine. Direct, with the proper focus on why we are to do this, and reinforced by the community behavior (Coptic women veil voluntarily, so if you show up without a veil for whatever reason they'll be happy to get you one so that you can be properly dressed).

Yes that’s more what my question is:
How can we foster an liturgical life where the parishioners want to do it right?

 

[jahel]

Yes that’s more what my question is:
How can we foster an liturgical life where the parishioners want to do it right?

In an American context, how might we improve this situation diplomatically yet forcefully?

That is different from the op. :oldthumbsup;

 

[ArmyMatt]

Of course, but the bishop cannot go everything especially with his responsibilities to tend to his jurisdiction’s finances. I see my bishop maybe once a year. Does the matter need to go that high up? It’s a very day-to-day ‘culture war’ issue.

In Russia, it just seemed the laypeople by the door of most churches wouldn’t let you in if you weren’t dressed right. And they had head coverings for the ladies there.

which is great for Russia, but there is no canon that allows the laity (or priests even) to take such matters into their own hands if they don't think the bishop is moving too slowly or whatever.

 

[E.C.]

We are a different country from Russia and therefore have a different way of life. Sometimes what is "normal" and "modest" also depends upon the area and weather. How one dresses in a parish vs a cathedral might be different. How one dresses in Seattle vs Miami may also be different.

I don't think women in America not wearing headscarves is necessarily an anti-Church conspiracy. Yes, we may prefer women cover their heads, but we don't force it here. I'd rather women wear a headscarf because they want to and not because it is mandated or else we'll start start turning into the religious police in Saudi Arabia; where the students of an all-girl school were left locked in the school to die from a fire because they all left their hijabs inside.

I've seen men and women both in Miami wearing short-sleeved shirts and slacks to church and sometimes with or without headscarves. It is very hot and humid in Miami and anyone who wears a three-piece suit is a glutton for punishment. At my old parish in Washington state, wearing jeans and a sweater was the norm because it was a poorer area and very cold. No one had a suit there. The "fanciest" dressed people were the priest and deacon. Most OCA parishes I've been two (on both US coasts) have had a mix of women with and without headscarves.

The three ethnic Arab parishes I've been to (California and Maryland) I think had the right idea. They did not mandate wearing a headscarf unless you were going to receive Communion. Wearing one before or after was optional, and they even had a basket of extras to borrow.

And, if I may be so blunt, I think if you are allowing what other people wear to church bother you so much, then perhaps one needs to reevaluate one's priorities because there are a lot more important things to worry about in life. Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh once gave a homily that went like this, "Yesterday, there was a woman and her child that came to church. She was not Orthodox. She did not have a headscarf. She was chased out of the church and will likely never come back again. Whoever chased her out, her salvation is now on your soul. Do not chase people out if they don't have a headscarf."

 

[archer75]

I've noticed I have enough trouble dealing with the contents of my own head at services to worry about what's on top of women's.

 

[Rusviking876]

which is great for Russia, but there is no canon that allows the laity (or priests even) to take such matters into their own hands if they don't think the bishop is moving too slowly or whatever.

Assume the bishop is far away and has given the local priest carte blanche (short of issuing excommunications) in this as a local matter of faith and morals.

We are a different country from Russia and therefore have a different way of life. Sometimes what is "normal" and "modest" also depends upon the area and weather. How one dresses in a parish vs a cathedral might be different. How one dresses in Seattle vs Miami may also be different.

I don't think women in America not wearing headscarves is necessarily an anti-Church conspiracy. Yes, we may prefer women cover their heads, but we don't force it here. I'd rather women wear a headscarf because they want to and not because it is mandated or else we'll start start turning into the religious police in Saudi Arabia; where an all-girl school was left locked in the school to die because they all left their hijabs inside.

I've seen men and women both in Miami wearing short-sleeved shirts and slacks to church and sometimes with or without headscarves. It is very hot and humid in Miami and anyone who wears a three-piece suit is a glutton for punishment. At my old parish in Washington state, wearing jeans and a sweater was the norm because it was a poorer area and very cold. No one had a suit there. The "fanciest" dressed people were the priest and deacon. Most OCA parishes I've been two (on both US coasts) have had a mix of women with and without headscarves.

The three ethnic Arab parishes I've been to (California and Maryland) I think had the right idea. They did not mandate wearing a headscarf unless you were going to receive Communion. Wearing one before or after was optional, and they even had a basket of extras to borrow.

And, if I may be so blunt, I think if you are allowing what other people wear to church bother you so much, then perhaps one needs to reevaluate one's priorities because there are a lot more important things to worry about in life. Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh once gave a homily that went like this, "Yesterday, there was a woman and her child that came to church. She was not Orthodox. She did not have a headscarf. She was chased out of the church and will likely never come back again. Whoever chased her out, her salvation is now on your soul. Do not chase people out if they don't have a headscarf."

I am not proposing chasing anyone out of the church. That is the purpose of the caveat “diplomatically”. The thread is just to pose strategies for reinforcing the authority of the Church in America. We are all sinners, but ignoring Church teaching during liturgy is another thing entirely.
I resist Islam’s idolatry intensely but secular apathy towards immodesty is worse.

To reiterate, it would be the same if I wore a t-shirt in liturgy.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Assume the bishop is far away and has given the local priest carte blanche (short of issuing excommunications) in this as a local matter of faith and morals.

then the bishop has rendered how to handle it, so go to your priest.

 

[Rusviking876]

then the bishop has rendered how to handle it, so go to your priest.

How can we as the faithful support the Orthodox teachings though? How can we encourage others to see our point of view?

I’m thinking about what the faithful in America need to do more generally, not just my particular local parish. Assume the priest grants his blessing. Any idea has to of course go through him.

 

[ArmyMatt]

How can we as the faithful support the Orthodox teachings though? How can we encourage others to see our point of view?

I’m thinking about what the faithful in America need to do more generally, not just my particular local parish. Assume the priest grants his blessing. Any idea has to of course go through him.

yeah, and then you have your answer. it's not the laity's job to worry about who has a head covering or not.

 

[Rusviking876]

yeah, and then you have your answer. it's not the laity's job to worry about who has a head covering or not.

It’s kind of a big issue to spring on a priest if we don’t have any proposed solutions, especially if the priest at our parish is a busy man.

The creation of an Orthodox culture is not just fostered by one person. It’s communal, cradle to grave everyday interactions.

The point of this thread is to propose solutions to this particular issue in America. Obviously no idea will be implemented without the priest’s approval, but we have to have an idea of what to do first.

 

[E.C.]

It’s kind of a big issue to spring on a priest if we don’t have any proposed solutions, especially if the priest at our parish is a busy man.

The creation of an Orthodox culture is not just fostered by one person. It’s communal, cradle to grave everyday interactions.

The point of this thread is to propose solutions to this particular issue in America. Obviously no idea will be implemented without the priest’s approval, but we have to have an idea of what to do first.

As St Seraphim of Sarov said, "Preach the Gospel often, and when necessary use words".

 

[ArmyMatt]

It’s kind of a big issue to spring on a priest if we don’t have any proposed solutions, especially if the priest at our parish is a busy man.

The creation of an Orthodox culture is not just fostered by one person. It’s communal, cradle to grave everyday interactions.

The point of this thread is to propose solutions to this particular issue in America. Obviously no idea will be implemented without the priest’s approval, but we have to have an idea of what to do first.

unless the bishop of priest taps you specifically to do this, it's not your solution to propose.

 

[Not David]

Maybe you could complement women who wear headscarves and incentive your own daughters but what do I know? Ich bin der ewige Katechumen.

 

[buzuxi02]

Yes that’s more what my question is:
How can we foster an liturgical life where the parishioners want to do it right?

That's a good question. The problem is you may not be able to. For example when Elder Ephraim opened his monastery and required women to wear headscarves it was a new concept for many Greeks. Right away it became one of the slanders against him and his monasteries. Secular Media picked up on it and the modernists were up in arms. Now why do Greek women not veil themselves to begin with??? Goes way back over 100 years ago when greeks were having an identity crisis and were required to choose between remaining Rum/byzantine greeks or reorient towards the west who were nostalgia about ancient Greece and her city states and philosophers etc. The media chose the side of western integration which was seeking in reclaiming classical Greek enlightenment values to make happy this romanticized vision of a revived ancient Greece. The headscarve was one of the casualties, the media portrayed it as a symbol of Ottomon era oppression and traditionalism..

 

[TheLostCoin]

As St Seraphim of Sarov said, "Preach the Gospel often, and when necessary use words".

I don't think St. Seraphim of Sarov said that. Nor did St. Francis of Assisi, whom this quote is often attributed falsely to.

Preach the Gospel at All Times? | HuffPost