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"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good question. Lord Jesus, in most of his teachings, was teaching New Covenant doctrine. Lord Jesus is that coming Messiah that the prophets wrote about. Now that Lord Jesus appeared, He was teaching about that Kingdom Gospel.

    For instance, you recall when Lord Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well - the doctrine was all New Covenant (John 4).

    When Lord Jesus spoke about those coming to him to drink (believe) to receive the well of water springing up inside them onto life - all that was referring to the New Covenant (John 7:37-39).

    When Lord Jesus taught about himself as the Way, the Truth, and the Life, or the Bread of Life, and the Shepherd leading the sheep - all of that was New Covenant.

    Lord Jesus applied Old Testament prophecy about the New Covenant to himself in different ways, such as being the "Light of the World," "The Resurrection and the Life." and so much more.

    Basically, Lord Jesus taught about the Gospel that was to come while here on earth as if they were already a reality, but actually had its fulfillment after Lord Jesus crucified, was buried, the third day rising again, and then being taken up into Glory. That is when the fullness of the New Covenant began, even though he referred to it earlier in His sermons and teachings.

    Blessings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  2. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is your belief, but the Scriptures teach that the regeneration is for the New Covenant. Titus 3:4-6 specifically states that only after our Savior Jesus appeared was regeneration possible.

    Titus 3:4-6 (WEB)
    4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior

    Lord Jesus appeared to save us only in the New Covenant.

    All the Old Testament saints believe before the regeneration of the New Covenant began when Lord Jesus appeared to save us.

    "1 Peter 2:5" is referring to Christians under the New Covenant. Notice that Passage you just quoted says,

    "sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ"

    Only Christians give Spiritual sacrifices to God by Jesus Christ - our High Priest and Mediator. All that is New Covenant.

    Blessings
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    He was teaching the new covenant, but was in the old covenant when addressing Nic. And He told Nic that he should know about being born again. So being born again was something they should have been aware of.
     
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The New Covenant is the Everlasting Covenant established in time, it was always in effect. Again Faith is a Fruit of New Birth, all the family of Faith beginning in the OT was born again of the Spirit. People in the flesh [the unregenerate] cannot please God Rom 8:8 and Faith pleases God Heb 11:6. And no All worship acceptable to God was in view of Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice. The OT Saints when they sacrificed it was in view of the coming Messiah, Shiloh, the Seed of Women.
     
  5. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    I wonder if what you really mean is that you've got a firmly held notion of which you are so convinced that it baffles you that others don't hold it, too. It seems to me you've just got your works-salvation glasses on and are reading the Bible through them.

    I've no idea what this has to do with I pointed out in my last post to you. I've not indicated to you what my view is on repentance as it relates to the Gospel, so why are you writing to me about it?

    One cannot believe a thing until one has come to accept it as true. Repentance - changing one's mind - is crucial, then, to abandoning one set of ideas in favor of another. The Gospel requires that the lost person accept an entirely new world view and conception of reality. In order to respond in saving faith to the truths of the Gospel, a lost man will have to change his mind - repent - about a great many things. But this is the case with any new idea we take in that challenges what we thought we knew and requires a reordering of our knowledge and understanding. The idea of repenting is not by any means unique, then, to the Christian faith. In any event, when Jesus and his disciples urged people to repent, they were simply urging them to reorder their thinking, change it, to accommodate the life-altering truths of the Gospel.

    I offer these comments simply to clarify what I think and mean concerning the matter of repentance (since you brought it up).

    The term "faith" can be a bit murky for speakers of English. By "faith," one can mean "religion," or "system of beliefs," or "trust"; "faith" can be a noun and a verb. You seem to mix the verb and noun form of the word "faith," equivocating - perhaps unwittingly - in your use of the word.

    In any case, you're right: works do not save anyone. What's more, one could exert all the faith one possesses in, say, the oak tree in the back yard, trusting completely that it will take one to heaven one day, but such faith - however strong - exerted in an impotent, inanimate, leafy object must be disappointed. It is evident in this that one's faith, insofar as the Gospel is concerned, is not the crucial thing but the power of the object of one's faith: Jesus Christ. Our faith in the Saviour has a life-transforming, eternal effect, not because of the force of our faith, but because of the power of the object of our faith. I remark on this because many believers place the onus for their salvation upon the strength of their faith rather than upon the Saviour in whom they exercise their faith.

    ??? This is an odd thing to write. Where have I urged people not to read and consider the passage here you've quoted? You should be very careful not to assign evil motives to fellow believers. (James 4:11)

    Verse 3 and 5 go together, the former being the reason for the latter. The Christian may "put to death his members which are on the earth" only because he is already "dead and his life is hidden with Christ in God." The Christian's spiritual position in Christ, his identity in Christ, is described in verse 3 and then the Christian is urged to live out that position in his condition, his daily living. This is the dynamic Paul described again and again in his various letters to the Early Church. He explained the believer's spiritual identity in Christ and then urged the believer to live it out. Always, however, it was that the spiritual position of the believer was first in Christ - that is, they were saved - and THEN they could live out the truth of their identity in him. Never should this cause and effect be reversed.

    Paul reinforced this order of things in the quotation from Colossians 3 above by pointing out that because the Colossian believers had "put off the old man" and had "put on the new," they could - and should - live in the way he described. Never, however, does Paul indicate that, in the doing of the things he described in the quotation above (putting away anger, malice, lying, bearing with one another, etc.), the Colossian believers obtained their salvation or made it secure. That would be works-salvation which the Bible denies. Rather, Paul was urging the Colossians to simply be who they already were in Christ, to live out the reality of their position in Jesus.

    This is a facile and deflective response to what I wrote and demonstrates either an inability or unwillingness to respond thoughtfully to my remarks. In either case, it doesn't at all defeat the things I pointed out about the passages you offered. "It's obvious I'm right," is not a convincing argument.

    Just to clarify: Faith is also part of God's "gift."

    Romans 12:3 (NASB)
    3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

    2 Timothy 2:25 (NASB)
    25 ...if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

    But it DOES very clearly, very explicitly, rule out good works as the means of a person's salvation, which was the sole reason I cited the verse.

    I don't think I agree with your understanding or conception of "Gospel Faith," but this isn't the same as disagreeing with God's word. So far, you appear to me to have got things a bit backward about how a person obtains their salvation. Really, the more you explain your thinking, the more it seems to me you are doing as others of your view I've spoken with have done: make good works necessary rather than merely inevitable.

    Okay...

    I'm not a Calvinist. If you'd simply asked me what my soteriological perspective was, you could have saved yourself a bit of unnecessary writing here. I don't hold to the Reformed "ordo salutis" which is what you seem to be arguing against here.
     
  6. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    God does not exert His saving power upon us only as we "live by faith" (which seems to be your way of saying, "By good works.") He saved us when we were "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1), when we had no righteousness to offer to God (Romans 3:23).

    Yes, we ought to live as godly people; but this isn't a duty to perform that prompts God to save us, but, rather, the natural result of being a born-again child of God.

    As far as I can tell, this is saying something while saying nothing.

    Romans 6:1-6 describes a spiritual state of affairs over which the born-again believer has no direct control and into which they have no input. Paul described in this passage what God had done to the Roman Christians, uniting them spiritually to Christ and freeing them from the power of the "old man" and sin. God did this in response to the saving faith of the Roman believers in Jesus, to their trust in him, not in response to their righteous living. The believer's spiritual union with Christ is something only God could accomplish, freeing them from slavery to sin; it was not a state of affairs Paul was describing to the Romans and expecting them to manufacture.

    Just as in the instance from Colossians 3, Paul is describing a fully accomplished spiritual reality in conformity to which he urged the Roman Christians to live. He was saying, "This is what is already true of you as people in Christ, so live like it." (Romans 6:11) He was not saying, "Live like people who are dead to sin and alive unto Christ, so that you'll be saved."

    This is works-salvation because it makes the "free gift of salvation" contingent upon "living out a holy life." The gift is not free if it is bestowed only in response to right living. This thinking also blasphemously adds the sin-fouled efforts of the creature to the perfect saving work of the Creator and Saviour.

    Oh, the irony in this statement! Wow.

    Do you not hear yourself? This is bald-faced works-salvation. It makes you your own Saviour. The apple tree bears apples BECAUSE it is an apple tree, not IN ORDER TO BE an apple tree. You cannot get apples from a tree that is not an apple tree. Likewise, you can only live a holy, God-honoring life because you are already a born-again believer. The righteous "fruit" of a godly life, only comes from a spiritually-regenerate "tree."

    Titus 3:4-7
    4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
    5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
    6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
    7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


    It can't be both we are saved apart from works, through Christ, and we save ourselves by our right living. The two things are mutually-exclusive. They must be synthesized together, not set in opposition, as you seem to have done with them. As Bible scholars have suggested, Paul is urging Timothy to live out his beliefs, tying belief and action tightly together here with the phrase "in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you." If we take Paul's words here too literally, however, we must say that Timothy has now become a Saviour, both of himself and others.

    Good works are inevitable to a healthy, heart-level faith in Christ. If one truly believes in Jesus as Saviour and Lord, and is genuinely saved, it will be revealed inevitably in one's living. But this doesn't mean that such living is necessary to one's salvation. One ought to live righteously in Christ Jesus, absolutely, but this doesn't mean one must live righteously in him. This is like saying a boat must float in order to be a boat; or an apple tree must bear apples in order to be an apple tree; or a human must be conscious in order to be a human. But there are many reasons why a boat might not float, or an apple tree might not bear apples, or a human might not be conscious. Is a boat not a boat if it is in dry-dock being painted? Is an apple tree not an apple tree when it is yet too immature to bear apples? Is a human not a human when s/he has been knocked unconscious or has lapsed into a coma? Obviously not. While floating, and producing apples, and being conscious are all inevitable to those things to which such "behaviours" correspond, they aren't necessary to these things being what they are.

    You are making good works, the fruit of spiritual regeneration, necessary to that regeneration rather than merely inevitable to it. But this does not allow for the condition of, say, the Corinthian believers to whom Paul wrote, who were "babes in Christ," carnal, and contentious, and sinful, but also repeatedly confirmed by Paul to be "brethren," and "temples of God," and "saints," and so on. Your thinking does not allow for Romans 7:14-24, or 1 John 1:8-10, or Galatians 5:17.

    Romans 11:22-23 (NASB)
    22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
    23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


    What does Paul go on from verse 22 to explain? What does Paul describe as "continuing in His goodness"? He writes: "...if they (national Israel) do not continue in their unbelief..." This refers back to verse 20 where Paul wrote of the Gentiles "standing by faith." Only those who don't believe in the goodness of God expressed in the Gospel will find themselves "cut off." What Paul DOES NOT say, however, is that deeds of the Gentiles (good or bad) are involved. His concern is only with what they believe, not what good works they perform coming out of that belief.

    "Sowing to the Spirit" is inevitable for the genuinely born-again believer, who is spiritually healthy and mature. Inasmuch as this is so, such "sowing" is reflective of true spiritual regeneration. One can say, therefore, that the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life because such sowing only comes from a life already regenerated spiritually by the Spirit and so possessed of eternal life. No works-salvation teaching here...

    To whom is Jesus speaking and when? The general public and his disciples, pre-Calvary. This is not a prescription, then, to Christians in a post-Calvary, post-atonement, circumstance, but to Jews still under the OT covenant, looking forward to a future salvation.

    Who are "overcomers"? All those in Jesus, the great Overcomer (John 16:33; 1 John 4:4) To all those in him, God promises never to blot out their names from the "book of life." This, then, is not a threat of lost salvation, but a promise from God Himself to preserve it!
     
  7. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Dis is another one of my favorite passages ...

    Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
    “Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
    has made us (BACs) free,
    and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage
    … You (BACs) have become estranged from Christ
    … you (BACs) have fallen from grace.”


    To be estranged from Christ and fallen from grace
    means you have lost your salvation.
     
  8. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Da foist proof of da red is the dozen or so NT verses,
    which teach us about the necessity of enduring (in the faith, etc.)
    to the end of life ... for one to be saved!
     
  9. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    For those who would like to know who an "overcomer" is,
    please read Jesus's definition ...
    "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me
    on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father

    on His throne." (Revelation 3:21)

    What did Jesus overcome while in an earthly body? ...
    ... the world (of unbelievers), Satan, temptation, sin, persecution. etc.

    Please note:
    The church's idea that "overcomers" are those who believe
    that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 5:5) is beyond ludicrous!
    This verse says BACs have overcome the world (of unbelievers).
    That's easy ... now, how about overcoming everything else!
    How about overcoming everything that Jesus overcame!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  10. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    It's one of your favorite passages because you rejoice when people lose their salvation?
     
  11. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    The Truth of God's Word and Spirit will affirm that God is 100% sovereign. Nowhere is it written that man gives God permission to do anything, including salvation.

    Agreed?
     
  12. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Romans 8:35-39
    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
    36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
    37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
    38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
    39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


    Revelation 12:11
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


    1 John 5:4-5
    4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
    5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?


    John 16:33
    33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”


    It is "beyond ludicrous" that you deny the very thing 1 John 5:5 proclaims. This should frighten you. How far gone are you into deception that you would act the devil and say, "Has God said?" and then deny the words plainly written in 1 John 5:5! Yikes!

    And 1 John 5:5 doesn't say a word about "unbelievers" or overcoming them. The "world" can mean a number of things: the earthly realm over which Satan has dominion; the philosophies and values of secular, godless man; or the inhabitants of the planet. It is an assumption you're making to say the "world" in 1 John 5:5 refers to the inhabitants of the globe. Neither the verse nor its immediate context give you ground for this assertion.

    Anyway:

    1 John 4:4
    4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.


    This is the source of the believer's overcoming: their position in Christ, who is greater than the world and has overcome it. In and through Christ, every believer is "more than a conqueror."

    John 15:4-5
    4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
    5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Meaning that they mean what He taught about man having it all backwards?
     
  14. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Being born again is never discussed in the Old Testament except as a New Covenant that God would make with Israel in the future.

    Show me where the born again experience was taught as occurring in the Old Covenant.

    Blessings
     
  15. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Old Testament Mosaic Law was a shadow, symbolism, of the reality that would be found in Christ Jesus in the New Covenant. However, believe what you will.
     
  16. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Very true. All Christians agree with that, except for those in the Word-Faith Movement.

    Blessings
     
  17. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Ezekiel 36.
     
  18. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ezekiel 36 is a prophecy of a future time. As well, the prophecies of receiving a new heart and a new spirit are for the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-36).

    Titus 3:4-5 shows us this occurred after Lord Jesus appeared to save us.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And earlier.


    “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
    Deuteronomy 30:6
     
  20. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You have no idea why I quoted the Passages about repentance?

    All the Scripture I listed that you responded to had to do with a repentant faith – dying to, or putting off, the old life, and then, by faith, following Lord Jesus into a holy life of righteousness and love, and that we are admonished to continue in, and endure in, the faith to the end to be saved.

    Lord Jesus and the Apostles taught us this in the Scriptures I provided for you. Along with all the Scriptures I quoted, here is what I wrote, and then your response follows:


    You responded:

    Yet, we see all the Scriptures warning the faithful to live holy lives, and to endure in the faith to the end to be saved (Ex: Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:13; Romans 6:21-22; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:9; Revelation 2:10).

    You have to reject all the Scriptures showing that genuine faith is revealed by denying self, and living a holy life before God – the only faith God accepts (Romans 6:1-5; Romans 6:21-22; Romans 8:12-13; Romans 11:20-22; 1 Corinthians 10:1-12; Ephesians 4:15-31; Ephesians 5:3-9; Galatians 5:24-25; Galatians 6:7-9; Colossians 3:1-17; 1 Timothy 4:16; 1 Peter 1:13-19; Hebrews 10:24-31; Hebrews 12:14-17). You have to reject all these Scriptures, and the many others throughout the NT to hold onto your view.

    But since you did define repentance, let us review it:

    Pretty good.

    Would you say that Lord Jesus definition of repentance agrees with how you defined it?

    Luke 9:23-26 (WEB)
    23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it.

    Would you say that Baptism represents that dying to the old life, and now living to serve God in a holy life of Righteousness?

    Romans 6:1-5 (WEB) 1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

    All the Scriptures harmonize with Lord Jesus. We saw Romans 6:1-23; Romans 6:1-5; and Colossians 4:1-17 so far, and they all say the same thing..

    A true Gospel faith is demonstrated by denying the old life of sin (Verse 21), and now living to serve God unto a holy life (Verse 22) and righteousness (Verses 5-17). That is the only faith by which God will give you the free gift of eternal life (Verse 22; Verse 23). That is repentance and faith.

    Repentance towards God and faith in Lord Jesus is the Gospel Faith by which God saves us, and is defined by Scripture as:
    Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB) 12 Beware, brothers and sisters, lest perhaps there might be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God; 13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest anyone of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said,
    Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

    Hebrews 12:14-17 (WEB) 14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification (holiness) without which no man will see the Lord, 15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it, 16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal. 17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.

    You call this works-salvation, but Holy Scripture reveals this the faith of the Gospel by which we are saved.

    setst777 said:
    Ephesians 2:10 (WEB) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

    Not that works save us, but that if our faith is in Lord Jesus we are now following HIM. That is what the Great Commission of the Gospel preaching is all about:

    Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB)
    19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

    For instance, the Gospel Faith is instructed to the Church about living in the Faith. The directions to the Church are given to show how they are to live in the Faith they profess – in the
    Colossians 3:1-17, which is basically a repeat of Romans 6 with similar language, and is also like so many other Scriptures.

    I can’t speak for anyone’s putting their faith in their faith. I imagine there may be people like that. The object of a Christian’s faith is definitely in Lord Jesus. A true faith in Jesus is demonstrated by being His disciple, following Him, observing all things he commands of us. This faith is a submission of our complete selves to our Lord Jesus – to deny ourselves, and to be His disciples, just as the Great Commission directs, and of which Baptism represents.

    setst777 said:
    I need not comment on it, because the Scripture itself describes the faith. If that faith describes you, then you are saved.

    Colossians 3:1-17 (WEB)
    1 If then you were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory.
    5 Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth: sexual immorality, uncleanness, depraved passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 For these things’ sake the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience.


    That is the description of faith which Aiki does not want anyone to see…

    I believe I did summarize Colossians 3:1-17 and Romans 6 in the following:

    You responded:
    If you are understanding something different from Colossians 3:1-17 and Romans 6 then what I wrote, which you called “works-salvation,” please let me know.

    Acts 26:19-20 (WEB) 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to them of Damascus, at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

    setst777 said:
    No one disagrees. The gift of God is God’s saving grace, which is not accessed by works, but by faith (Romans 5:1-2).

    No Scripture states or teaches that faith onto salvation is a gift of God. Some ‘scholars’ object, citing “1 Corinthians 12:9” and “Romans 12:3-8.”


    Citing “1 Corinthians 12:9” as proof that saving faith is a gift of God is a good example of taking verses out of context and supplying one’s own meaning.

    1 Corinthians 12 refers to the gifts of the Spirit within the body of Christ – to those already saved.

    One of the many Spiritual gifts Paul lists in 1 Corinthians 12 is “faith,” which is given to some in the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:9).

    1 Corinthians 12:9 (KJV)
    9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit

    If this Spiritual gift of “faith” is given so one can be saved, then does this mean that all others in the body of Christ who did not receive the gift of faith were saved without faith? No. Paul is discussing Spiritual gifts for those already saved.

    Similar to 1 Corinthians 12, we see also that Romans 12:3-8 is also teaching about the Spiritual Gifts and the faith to carry out specific gifts in the body of Christ to those already saved. A measure of faith unique to carry out specific Spiritual gifts is required.

    Regarding 2 Timothy 2:25

    2 Timothy 2:23-26 (WEB) 23 But refuse foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing that they generate strife. 24 The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but be gentle toward all, able to teach, patient, 25 in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may recover themselves out of the devil’s snare, having been taken captive by him to his will.

    Those who continually oppose God and His servants are in danger of being punished by God with a hardening so they cannot be saved anymore because of their willful refusal of His grace (2 Thessalonians 2:10; Romans 1:22-26; John 12:37-40; Romans 10:21).

    There is no hope again to return, unless God should grant mercy after they have been humbled by the trials of this life in response to their sinfulness, as the prodigal son did (Luke 15:11-32), or in answer to prayer, and remove the hardening.

    I already know your soteriological perspective, unless you changed your position, but you didn’t as I see from the rest of your post. We had a long discussion about this very thing before in another long debate in January/February 2019, so that is the reason I responded to the Passages you provided that included that topic. And, whether you admit you are Reformist or not, everything you argued was from a Calvinist perspective to a tee.

    Blessings
     
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