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"he eats and drinks with sinners"

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Shempster, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    ....so said the religious leaders of Yeshua.
    Lets think about that.
    Most people would assume that Yeshua was hanging out with the tax collectors and prostitutes because he was trying to save them. But consider, if you walked into a bar and sat down next to every person and said "you need to stop drinking and get religious" what kind of response would you likely get? A positive one? I think not. You'd be bounced out shortly.
    So it seems that Yeshua was on nodding terms with these people of ill repute. So if he had a habit of eating and drinking with them, they must have liked him. But why would they like him if he pointed out their sins? All I'm suggesting is that maybe he didn't do that.

    What was he like around them? We are not told. Let's speculate a bit.
     
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  2. JingshenBianxi

    JingshenBianxi So Cool

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    I'd dare to speculate in saying that JESUS was probably the coolest and most profound Teacher of all time. He really didn't focus on exposing SIN...rather..He taught of the KINGDOM of GOD. In teaching the Kingdom of GOD...all through scripture He would use things of the world that SINNERS would understand...to explain things of Heaven. So while He's eating with sinners...I'm pretty sure the sinners were not even THINKING about SINNING while with JESUS...because they were too caught up in Him teaching in such a profound way..

    He was personable. He could level with you. Even the lowest of the low. It was for THEM that He came in the first place. The only people who Jesus had a problem with...

    was the Hypocrites.

    But Sinners?...nah...those are HONEST SOULS who were in Need of a Savior. And so they simply were in awe of Him in regards to the things He had to say about the KINGDOM...but more so...HOW HE SAID IT. :)
     
  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    He did not point out offences. He offended many becasue He did not point out sins.
    Some of his apostles never got the hang of that.
     
  4. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because he didn't just point out their sins, as so many religious people now days do. That's a frequent misreading of the Bible by the modern Pharisees.

    Like the Samaritan woman at the well. Jesus isn't sitting there scolding her. He's unmasked her shame and given her something better. We honestly don't know why she had 5 husbands and Jesus doesn't say either (its possible infertility was a culprit, which would have no moral guilt in the modern sense). He just knows that people don't come out to a well, alone, in the hottest part of the day unless they are trying to hide from shame.

    So what we see is a movement towards reconciliation, not castigating. The only people Jesus was harsh with, were the "insiders", or the people that thought they were the insiders.

    Yes, absolutely. It's like some modern religious people sometimes do, they feel revulsion at certain groups of people, they shun and exclude them in various ways to be "pure", because they are afraid of God's perceived anger or holiness, and do not perceive his mercy.

    Honestly if Jesus were walking the earth today, he might well be dead for the same reasons. Let's not pretend we are so much better now days just because we have the Gospel. Somebody once said of Reformation Geneva, if Jesus had walked into there, he would have been crucified. In the name of religious zealotry people can do a lot of reprehensible things and miss the mark.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  5. Jezmeyah

    Jezmeyah member since 7-14-16

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    Jesus had the Psyrophenician woman come to him, in that culture she was a sinner. There was a Roman soldier who came to him, he was a sinner. He also perchanced to speak with the Samaritan woman at the well. And he forgave the woman who'd been caught in the act of adultery.. rather than stone her which was according to the religious law, he forgave her sins according to God's mercy which overruled the law.

    Because of these events with sinners who came to him to request that he heal a family member, or a servant of theirs.. the religious pharisees said that Jesus socialized with sinners.

    It wasn't that Jesus went into bars and brothels.. but the religious leaders sought to make it seem like he had, with intent to sully his reputation. Then it might seem that he was in disobedience to Ps.1 which says that the man of God is not to sit with scoffers nor stand in the path of sinners.

    Jesus had a ministry. As such he wore the cloak of his ministry. The woman with the issue of blood pulled on his prayer shawl which according to Malachi, had healing in it's wings or corners of the shawl. The text said that virtue had gone out of him which healed her.

    To one man who was sick, Jesus said, "Your sins be forgiven you." And the man was healed. So of course sinners came to him to be healed.

    Jesus demonstrated God's love toward sinners, and demonstrated God's reachableness, whereas the religious leaders demonstrated their condemnation to and distance from sinners which the religious leaders thought that God was like.

    Our demonstration of God's love to sinners is the way that the world will know that we are the disciples of the Lord. Therefore, it would not be right that the first thing said to the sinner is something condemning like "You need to stop drinking and get religious."

    I suppose it's one thing to walk into the bar and shout something like "Hey people, get saved!".. but it's something quite different when you behave like Jesus and the sinners come to you with a desire to know God and be saved.
     
  6. Br4nd0n

    Br4nd0n New Member

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    I like JingshenBianxi's interpretation. Id imagine he would be playing billiards in a pub, and possibly freaking out a germophobic pharisee by putting his hands in the mashed potatoes too.

    But its kind of interesting in this video 16-21 minutes, the breakdown of one of Jesus' sermons (he could do a sermon in a pub, right?) and how he also related to people in kind of the opposite way as mentioned in this post.
     
  7. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    Jesus being friend of everyone isn't a controversial Christian theology, at least nowadays.

    Still, the Bible says otherwise against most assumptions here.
     
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