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Featured Having the Holy Spirit, does that mean I am saved?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by zoidar, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Here are Three verses which say you have been Sealed with the Holy Spirit, what does the word Sealed mean in reference to these verses and your Salvation.

    2Co. 1:22
    Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

    Eph. 1:13,14
    13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    SEALED: Greek
    G4972
    σφραγίζω
    sphragizō
    sfrag-id'-zo
    From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.

    G4973
    σφραγίς
    sphragis
    sfrag-ece'
    Probably strengthened from G5420; a signet (as fencing in or protecting from misappropriation); by implication the stamp impressed (as a mark of privacy, or genuineness), literally or figuratively: - seal.

    G5420
    φράσσω
    phrassō
    fras'-so
    To fence or inclose, that is, (specifically) to block up (figuratively to silence): - stop.

    Are there any verses which say you CAN lose the Holy Spirit once you have received Him?
    Was there any teaching by Paul or any other Apostle on the subject of losing the Holy Spirit?

    You say you have been Saved, Paul continually used the word in the Past tense, the only thing your missing as far as being Saved is concerned is the Glorification of our bodies, you have been Justified, you have been Sanctified in Christ.

    But being Saved from your Sins, being saved from the Wrath to come, he who the son hath set free is free indeed.

    John 8:36
    If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    1. Being filled with the Holy Spirit (as you say "having the Holy Spirit") is - to be saved.
    2. You have proposed a "Having the Holy Spirit but not saved" or "being filled with the Spirit but not saved" -- which is not in the text of Romans 8 that you re quoting
     
  3. Stone-n-Steel

    Stone-n-Steel Active Member Supporter

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    I like these verses in Ephesians that talk about the Holy Spirit and our sealing until we are redeemed even if we grieve the Spirit. The bonus is that it is for the glory of God not us.

    Eph. 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
     
  4. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Bible tells us "He who endures until the end, he SHALL be saved". No-one alive on Earth is "already saved". Paul likens earthly life to a footrace which we must run well if we wish to receive the prize - salvation. Obviously the prize in a race is awarded at the end of the race, not in the middle of it, which is why Paul used this analogy.
     
  5. Stone-n-Steel

    Stone-n-Steel Active Member Supporter

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    2Tim. 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.

    I like how it says the vessels are in the great house. Not how some are lost and some made it. If all the vessels were in the same race and only one made it the great house would only have one on the shelf.
     
  6. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    If you mean one who has purposely apostatized?

    Of course there's the passage that says a person can get so far that it is impossible to renew them to repentance. I think that's the failure of the person though - being such a one that could "taste the heavenly gift" and in every way participate fully in the Body (I imagine we might have a different interpretation here - I read these as full sacramental participation) - if a person can fully receive all of this and then trample it underfoot - maybe such a degree of hard-heartedness is required to abandon it, that is why the person cannot be renewed again.

    It wouldn't be a failure or weakness on the part of the Holy Spirit, nor of Him choosing to abandon us.

    I know I'm not exactly answering your question. But I have a hard time knowing that I am measuring "the Holy Spirit leaving" in the same way as someone else. We can quench the Holy Spirit. We can become insensitive to Him. We can resist Him.

    But the Holy Spirit in a sense is the Source of life - even biological life depends on God continually ... if He fully abandoned a person, that person would literally die. But I'm sure you mean something else.
     
  7. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    You have taken Paul's words out of the context in which they were written.

    Try reading from verse 15 through verse 27.
     
  8. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Ah I had missed some posts.

    So there must be a point of conversion. And a person follows Christ.

    A person can become heedless of his soul and slip into sin. The Holy Spirit works with us in such a situation - but we don't know how long He will continue to deal with us. If we are drawn to repentance - glory to God. We can be forgiven and once again be on the path of being transformed to be like Christ. Or maybe some will be hardened and never repent.

    Such a time of being careless with one's soul is not in itself apostasy.

    Some people may be sensitive to a very small sin and feel far from God because of it. Other times we can go from small sins to bigger ones and get grossly entangled before we, like the prodigal son, see our state and repent and return to God.

    I can't tell you what would have happened if you had died during an unfortunate time. It would always be up to God - who wants to save people. But at times we might not cooperate. The state of who we are when we meet God face to face determines our judgement.
     
  9. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Paul describes what living according to the Spirit is as contrasted with living in the flesh.

    Living according to the Spirit is to live by faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross and the victory He won for you in His resurrection.

    Living according to the flesh in Paul's definition is trying to be saved by keeping the Law of Moses and complying with the ceremonial and ritualistic components of Judaism.

    This is not to say that we don't live a holy life before God. Paul draws the distinction between the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5. The works of the flesh result from trying to be saved by keeping religious rules, regulations, ceremonies and rituals. Those things do not change one's life. The rules and regulations are there just to show how sinful a person is in the failure of being able to keep them.

    But a truly saved person will exhibit the fruit of the Spirit as shown in Galatians 5. The evidence that a person is truly saved by grace through faith is that the fruit of the Spirit shines out through his life.

    But if a person is not loving, peaceful, joyful, not gentle, is unkind, unfaithful, has a general badness, and lacks self control, then it would be difficult to affirm that the person is saved and filled with the Spirit. But if a person is truly saved and filled with the Spirit he will show love, joy, peace, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, patience, kindness and self control. These are the evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    This is part of the general character of a truly born again believer. The evidence of the Holy Spirit power working through the person is shown in the nine gifts of the Spirit. One can have the former, without the latter, but one cannot have the latter without the former.
     
  10. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There seems to be three groups of people here. Those that believe we can fall off the path of salvation to the path of damnation even while having the Holy Spirit.

    The group that believes if you are born again you can never fall back to a sinful lifestyle, and therefore once saved you are eternally saved.

    And the group that believes we can live in sin thereby quenching the Holy Spirit, but we will still be saved.

    No one seems to think the Holy Spirit can leave you if you live in sin?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  11. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are describing exactly my new birth that happened 21th of June 2010.

    You ask if I'm saved. Do I know with 100% certainty I'm still saved? No I don't! I know I have the Holy Spirit, and I believe I'm saved.
     
  12. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    Forget the confusion.
    A man is made rightous by faith in the gospel.
    Rom 1:16 "the gospel is the power unto salvation for anyone that believes"

    Martin Luther taught us this 500 years ago.

    "We are all made to drink of one spirit" (1 cor 12) means the spirit is something you, as a righteous person, have accsess to. You may techincally have this spirit, access to it if you will, but that doesnt mean you walk in it. That is all about maturity, learning to walk in the gift.

    Or Paul wouldnt have said "if we have the spirit, then lets walk in the spirit" (gal 5:25). He wants us to discover and start walking in the spirit, BUT THEY WERE ALL "SAVED", they were all "bretheren"

    Gal 3 makes it even more perfectly clear:
    "
    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    "

    So its clear that we are given the spirit as a result OF our rightouesness by faith, its the faith unto righteousness that makes is right with god, its because of that we are given the spirit. The spirit is not the foundation of our salvation, its the result. We may or may not have started digging into this gift, and we amy all be on various levels of walking in the spirit, but it is given to the beleiver, not exception. Or it wouldnt have said it was poured out on "all flesh", that means its in your and mine flesh as we speak,m or the bible isnt true.

    And dont forget, anyone that denies that this spirit of christ is now come in our flesh, is the anti christ :D. So its there. Lets not be anti christs lol (im joking, but its still truth in this)

    So dont get confused, we are saved by faith, which is 100% our choice. The spirit is our seal of rightouesness, but is not how we got rightoues, that happened by faith in the gospel, then we have this accsess to walking in the spirit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
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  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

    So, if you believe in Jesus, your faith is proof he saved you. You could not believe had he not.
     
  14. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    thus john writes -"this is how we know WHO are the children of God and who are the children of the devil ..."
    because the ones who claim (to stick to the op topic ) to have the holy Spirit and even speak in tongues .but continue in the practice of SIN doing evil ... dont know god ,they are of the devil ..
    - because any one born of God cannot continue in the practice of sin .. sin is over come and constantly decreasing in their life and righteousness constantly increasing as the exchange of salvation is being worked in them .
    so no, just having the holy Spirit and tongues (or believing you do ) is not an "automatic " guarantee of salvation UNLESS you walk in obedience to Him and if you truly are BORN OF GOD , you can and will do so :) ever increasingly .
     
  15. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Claiming to have the Holy Spirit is not the same as actually having the Holy Spirit. But if one actually has the Holy Spirit, yes there is a guarantee.

    Eph 1:13,14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession— to the praise of his glory.

    2Co 5:5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

    2Co 1:22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
     
  16. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    If you're trying to fit what I said into that ... it depends on what you mean by the Holy Spirit "leaving" a person. In the sense that He is everywhere present and filling all things, and sustains breath and life, no, He never leaves. He is always "with" everyone, even those who never convert.

    But in terms of being filled with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, clearly some people can become so darkened inside that they no longer have that communion and those descriptions don't apply to them anymore, if they continually follow their bent to self. That line will be different for different people. We must never presume on the grace of God. He may work with us patiently for a very long time - or maybe not. He alone knows the intricacies of our hearts, and will deal with each of us according to His wisdom.
     
  17. S.O.J.I.A.

    S.O.J.I.A. Dynamic UNO

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    Hebrews 6 is talking about people like judas and king saul.

    they experienced the gifts but weren't born again.
     
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  18. Stone-n-Steel

    Stone-n-Steel Active Member Supporter

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    How do you see the couple in Acts 5?

    The fear of the church at the time should indicate that they had salvation but as a result of a lie they lost their life immediately. Would this mean they also lost salvation or was their seat in Heaven secured?
     
  19. FatalHeart

    FatalHeart Wisdom's Associate

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    It's not like Jesus doesn't work through unsaved people. So, yes, some communion with the Holy Spirit is possible without being saved. "He who is not against me is for me." There's plenty of answered prayer by wicked people because of the whole mercy thing. It's not too far reaching to think the Holy Spirit will work with you if you work with Him.
     
  20. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You then believe a born again believer never can fall back to a sinful lifestyle?
     
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