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Have you guys seen this I hate Religion but Love Jesus by Jefferson Bethke?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by LectureYou, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. LectureYou

    LectureYou Newbie

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    Just wondering if anyone has seen this video by Jefferson Bethke about HATING Religion but loving Jesus. It went viral in 2 days.


    Lectureyou . com

    The Video is on youtube. I'm trying to post it here but its not allowing me. But the video is also at the link above. Let me know what you guys think.
     
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  2. ChrisHolland619

    ChrisHolland619 Newbie

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    I watched it, and I have a thread on it in the Baptist section on this forum. :p

    It's a great video with a great message, I love all of his videos. He's a great lyricist.
     
  3. Incariol

    Incariol Newbie

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    I've seen it. It pains me, it's pretty bad. Just because someone can rhyme and make a pretty video doesn't mean the theology isn't awful.
     
  4. ChrisHolland619

    ChrisHolland619 Newbie

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    Explain to us, with scripture as a source, which I want you to quote, which part of what he said is unbiblical.
     
  5. Incariol

    Incariol Newbie

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    ROFL why should I?

    First, I never said it was "unbiblical", I said it was "bad theology". Second, try asking politely. You aren't entitled to demands on my time.

    Though he did say a fair amount of things that are unbiblical, that is true.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  6. peckaboo

    peckaboo Newbie

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    There are a few things I really like about this video (some of them have been pointed out to me; I didn't spot them all myself):
    He's willing to step up to the plate and acknowledge the hypocrisy in the church, and his own part in that.
    He doesn't shy away from the arguments that non-Christians put forward against that Christian religion, such as "it's the cause of so many wars", "'sinners' like divorcees aren't allowed in", the aforementioned hypocrisy, etc.
    He names and shames the political aspirations of much of the church - ok he uses US terms, but we have the same "real Christians vote Tory" attitude in the UK to a lesser extent, even though Jesus' own attitudes could be argued to have been distinctly more left-wing than those of the Republican/Tory parties.
    He acknowledges (albeit briefly) the problem of pornography in the church. As we can see on these forums, this is a huge problem in the church, and nobody's talking openly about it; it's all done anonymously on the internet.

    There are some things that could be theologically controversial. "Religion is man searching for God; Christianity is God searching for man" gets into the whole free will/predestination debate for example.

    Incariol, I would also be curious to know what you disagreed with theologically, largely because I'm not well enough schooled in theology to know what you mean, but would like to understand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  7. Incariol

    Incariol Newbie

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    Aha, someone asks nicely! :)

    First, I'll link this, since Fr. Andrew dissects the whole video much better than I'll ever be able to, but I'll summarize.

    Why I Love (True) Religion Because I Love Jesus « Roads from Emmaus

    First, Jesus certainly did not come to abolish religion. That is patently absurd. "Religion" is a belief system. Christ came to bring belief, and gave the Great Commission of preaching belief to all the nations, soooo... the video guy is simply wrong.

    Second, he does this whole rant about being Christian not meaning voting Republican... Which is true, but that is an absurd criticism of the Christian religion, since outside the Bible belt in the USA, nobody would take that view seriously.

    He claims religion starts wars. This is not true. Religion may have been an excuse to start wars, but anything more than a cursory examination of history shows pretty clearly that all those "religious" wars were in truth motivated by other factors. Religion was just a convenient PR excuse.

    He blames the church failing to "feed the poor".
    1. Why are building beautiful places to worship God, bad? I honestly don't get the whole anti-art movement.
    2. EVERY church and religion and charity fails to feed the poor. As it is, the largest charities in existence are Christian organizations. Complaining that they have failed thus far to solve WORLD HUNGER is breathtakingly stupid.


    He says "religion" tells single moms that God doesn't love them. Blatant lie. I can't think of anyone outside of Westboro Baptist spewing drivel like that.


    He says religion "mocked John the Baptist", which is rather funny, since St. John was born a priest and spent his life as a prophet and practicing a religious ritual known as "baptism".

    One of my favorite parts is "Now I ain' judgin", which is really ironic, since his entire video is really just an anti-Christian screed so far.

    There's this bit:

    Which is cute, because this is hardly a criticism of religion, just human behavior. I really don't get it. Is Christianity worthless if everyone in the Church cannot perfectly uphold the moral code? I thought the entire point of grace was that we couldn't keep the Law and be saved by obedience to it...

    But,

    This contradicts what he just said. Is the Church bad for having people "getting faded" and having "sex and get[ing] wasted"? Or is it a "hospital for the broken"? He can't simultaneously condemn and praise the Church as being a place with sinners. :doh:


    No, Jesus never hated religion. He hated the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees, but he didn't hate Judaism and turn into an atheist or agnostic. This is simply a lie which is obvious to readers of the Gospels.

    Heck, Jesus didn't even tell people to not obey the Pharisees, he specifically told them to obey them, as they "sat in Moses' seat".

    "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,[a]that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do" --Matthew 23:1-3

    So does he believe in sin, or does he believe he has found something better than following "some rules"? Which is it? Anyways, yes, the Church needs rules to be a coherent organization. That is basic sociology.




    1. No they are not on opposite spectrums, Jesus came to redeem us and establish a religion.

    2. I thought sin was the major infection of mankind. He is confusing his basic theology now.

    Philippians 3:12

    "12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me."


    And he goes on to spout a 7th century Christian heresy known as Monergism for a bit...


    No, grace is a gift, what describes there is, as Fr. Andrew points out, substitutionary atonement.

    This is especially rich in irony because the one and only time I've seen Christians actually kneel at a cross is in the most "religious" of denominations, specifically Catholicism and Orthodoxy which has an entire feast day in which the Sunday service involves a lot of kneeling and prostrations to the Cross.

    Elevation of the Holy Cross - OrthodoxWiki


    Best finished in Fr. Andrew's own words.

    By the by, if you click the link and this looks familiar, that's because I'm largely summarizing from him.
     
  8. ezeric

    ezeric HE loves me too.

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    Here is the big dividing point, and the crux of the entire problem!
    And its a big problem! The church as we know it is a FAR CRY from what it should be, and GOD wont apologize to us, because we do things our own way!

    -eric
    http://the-exchanged-life.blogspot.com/
     
  9. LectureYou

    LectureYou Newbie

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    Thanks for all the replies guys! it seems like i just started a huge debate! oops!

    I just started this blog, and I was hoping to get some traffic off of it, and see what u guys thought of what i wrote and what exactly you thought of the video.

    If you guys could maybe debate on my site under the comments that would be awesome! :)
     
  10. ShiningBecky

    ShiningBecky Love is what matters, not dogma

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    I haven't watched it yet, but everyone on my Facebook page is raving over it. I think I had better give it a view! I pretty much agree with his premise already. If religion were such a good thing, I imagine I would have no interest in watching it. I've said for years that the church is the people, not the organized religion down the street. But I guess if you're religious and attached to your traditions, you're not bound to like the video.
     
  11. Fearless12

    Fearless12 Newbie

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    Exactly.

    It's great... So many churches steeped in biblically unfounded traditions are looking at the growing disconnect between church and society as a side effect of their superior knowledge of all things holy. Others are scratching their heads, wondering why in the world people are growing less and less attracted to the gospel. Some are even altogether unaware or unconcerned about it.

    But Bethke and others like him are, by speaking to the heart, reaching the masses with the gospel. I think it's brilliant.
     
  12. MasterpieceMesias

    MasterpieceMesias King of Stoic Cynicism

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    frankly I think that this mentality has been around longer than one would expect but people just didn't voice it much nor really express this until recently. . . which is curious.
     
  13. Fearless12

    Fearless12 Newbie

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    That's true. I've known plenty who think this way, but the interesting thing is how many people the message is reaching with this one video.
     
  14. Incariol

    Incariol Newbie

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    You do realize that every single theist in the world is religious by definition, including you, right?
     
  15. VCViking

    VCViking Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel...

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  16. Autumnleaf

    Autumnleaf Legend

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    Wrong.

    the·ism (th[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]z[​IMG][​IMG]m)n. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

    the[​IMG]ist n.
    the·is[​IMG]tic, the·is[​IMG]ti·cal adj.
    the·is[​IMG]ti·cal·ly adv.
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
     
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