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Have you experienced a church split?

Discussion in 'Bridge Builders - Moderate Christians' started by salamacum, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

    +552
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Engaged
    Well, :doh: on me!
     
  2. Izdaari

    Izdaari Episcopalutheran (TEC/ELCA)

    +419
    Lutheran
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    And on me too. It would've been clearer if I'd quoted him instead of you. Still, Luther didn't split off from the EOC in the history I remember. :whistle:
     
  3. LovebirdsFlying

    LovebirdsFlying My husband drew this cartoon of me. Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

    +3,246
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    I take exception to what appears to be a "my church is better than yours" attitude.

    Please, TEP, we are Bridge Builders here. We want peace between all believers of any denomination. We don't want to play "us against them" or do any kind of smearing. This forum is for getting along, for focusing on our similarities rather than our differences. May I urge you please to come in with a dove in your hands, rather than a strutting rooster?

    Peace be on you, and on the Bridge Builders.
     
  4. salamacum

    salamacum Guest

    +0
    It's true - the Catholics and the Orthodox don't do the split thing the way that evangelicals do.

    But when there is a controversy it's massive.

    Has any body written an article on why divisions seem so prevalent in the protestant world? Is it anything to do with sola scriptura itself?
     
  5. salamacum

    salamacum Guest

    +0

    Yes, this is what I think. I probably wouldn't have problems with people praying in appreciation using these words or similar, but I've had people introducing the communion, 'remembering' the relevent short passages/texts from the NT and replacing 'given' with 'broken'.
    Sloppy thinking I suppose.

    When I raised this with one guy, he was mortified, as if he'd been caught out, found wanting, didn't know his bible etc etc.

    Such hostages to fortune.

    IMO, the splits I've experienced have been over 'direct revelation'/ bizarre manifestations and personality clashes.

    The hatred over these still linger.
     
  6. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

    +552
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Engaged
    From what I've seen of splits and or schisms within the Protestant world: either sola scriptura or the personality of a particular pastor.
     
  7. salamacum

    salamacum Guest

    +0
    E.C. - have you made any postings about sola scriptura on the semper reformanda or fundamentalist boards.

    Looking forward to our next explorers' / heretics group loosely connected to our pentecostal church.

    Got a forthright lay Catholic coming to set us right or get grilled.

    What would you like asking? Anyone?
     
  8. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

    +552
    United States
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    Engaged
    That's not my part of town there, sorry.
     
  9. salamacum

    salamacum Guest

    +0
    < < < That's not my part of town there > > >

    Once upon a time, these forums were sub-titled "Bringing Christians Together".

    I took that seriously and posted information-gathering itmes on various boards. I wanted to know what the reformed thought about the Orthodox for example. That particular thread on the Semper Reformanda was populated by some Orthodox people and was VERY interesting.

    I sooned learned that there are RULES and more RULES and you could get reported basically for flaming, but which IMV were personal attempts to get under the surface of our biases and "bring Christians together"

    These boards seem to have accepted that we will all converse in our small corners of the Christian world and we can never get togther even to explore difference.

    It's all very sad.
     
  10. Izdaari

    Izdaari Episcopalutheran (TEC/ELCA)

    +419
    Lutheran
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    US-Libertarian
    Sad but true (which also happens to be my favorite Metallica song).

    But all opinions (within the CF rules of course) are welcome at Bridge Builders so long as people mind their manners.
     
  11. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

    +552
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Engaged
    It's a theological language thing.

    Example: I go onto the GT board a lot. I'm a convert to Orthodoxy from Catholicism, so when I see a lot of "Reformed" theological language like "justification", "sola scriptura", "Arminianism" and so forth, I have no clue what it means. The same would apply if I started using Orthodox theological language such as "theosis", "nous", "theoria", "noetic prayer" and even the word "heart" in some contexts than "Reformed" folks would probably have no idea what I was saying.

    There are Orthodox posters here who came from Protestant backgrounds and would then know the theological language of Protestantism. I'm just not one of them, so I just post what I see.


    I say theological language because, really, that's what it is. The Greek-speaking East and the Latin-speaking West were hugely differnt. In the East we have Orthodoxy and in the West we have Catholicism. Different culture, different langauge and different circumstances through the ages brought about a different theological language in both the East and the West. Protestantism, being derived from Catholicism, adopted the same sort of theological language of Catholicism.
    There is also the whole mindset thing. Catholicism is "whatever the pope sayeth shall go". Protestantism appears to be "Reform reform reform". Whereas Orthodoxy is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" :D

    I would wander into the boards you mentioned, but I just don't know the language of Reformed Protestants. I'm also one of those people that does a better job at answering questions than just endless blabbing of what's what.
     
  12. ChristianCritic

    ChristianCritic Member

    352
    +16
    Presbyterian
    Private
    US-Democrat
    A church split occurs whenever there aren't enough moderates around to keep the church together. This almost happened in my PC(USA) denomination but thankfully the moderates stepped up to the plate and came up with compromises and arrangements that just about everyone could live with.
     
  13. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

    +1,421
    United States
    Pagan
    Married
    Go moderates :thumbsup: Looks like you got lucky there, in cases around here it is already so polarized that everyone has made up their minds before any negotiating takes place. Unfortunately none of this is limited to a single kind of church it happens in Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian churches all the time because the pendulum swings too far one way, we must bring it back or risk further chaos!
     
  14. BlackSabb

    BlackSabb Senior Member

    +137
    Christian
    Married


    That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of!!!! What century are we living in? Is it 2009 or 1909? Splitting over "women wearing pants".

    I'm a guy that occasionally wears tights in the winter when it's really cold because of poor circulation. I think I'll walk into a church and cause a split over it.......:p

    Can I get an amen?
     
  15. edie19

    edie19 Legend Supporter

    +9,445
    Christian
    that's a pretty sweeping statement and in my experience incorrect

    if one is talking about a denomination you might be right - I know both the PCUSA and the UCC have some major issues these days - largely due to social issues

    but an individual church split is often due to behaviors within the church - the churches I know of who've experienced splits have been specifically due to the behavior of the pastor (i.e. extra marital affairs or embezzlement) - nothing to do with doctrine at all
     
  16. salamacum

    salamacum Guest

    +0
    I'm not diminishing marital infidelity or embezzlement but what about pride and it's more common manifestation, insecurity and inferiority-complex and control-freakery?
    What we manage to do is subsume it under 'confidence in the Lord' 'leadership responsibility' 'need to answer to God' etc etc.
    How many churches have lost good and capable people because they would be a threat to the pastor? My local Anglican church is like a Harem with acquiescent, unthinking pew-fillers of both sexes.
    Another church I know surprisingly asked for a church review to help with succession.
    Church members were interviewed and thge results were a total shock to one leader on the team. He'd lived in cloud-cuckoo land because nobody could stand up to him.
    But God's will was done. It's a pity it took 15 years. He reacted very badly and even now can't see what the problem was. Nobody had been able to test hsi theology or spirituality or prophetic gift or leadership calling.
    Maybe this is just a problem with small evangelical churches.
     
  17. Ladybug4Jesus

    Ladybug4Jesus The poster formerly known as ladybugforJesus

    120
    +4
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    The church our family went to when I was younger was growing quite quickly, and as a result, we had a considerable population of both the older, more traditional patrons and the younger, more modern group. There was an obvious squabble, and the youth of the church separated, my family included.

    The new church was quite successful for about 10 years, until the governing body of the church went on some kind of retreat and came back spouting out a whole new gospel, which didn't sit right with a great deal of the church, and another split occured.

    Fortunately the Youth Minister didn't subscribe to the new way of thinking and started a church for anybody that was left.
     
  18. lismore

    lismore Legend

    +2,198
    Christian
    Single
    How did they know if the women were wearing pants or not?

    :confused:
     
  19. AzA

    AzA NF | NT

    +95
    Christian
    Private
    Trousers, my friend. Americans say "pants" for "trousers."
    The concept for those who object to women in trousers is that trousers are men's clothing and so God-fearing women should not gender-bend by wearing them.

    The soundness of this concept is debatable... hence the divisions.
     
  20. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

    +1,166
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian

    Bob,

    splits generally are explosions, from my experience anyways. They almost always start with something that sounds good but is either hollow or just wrong at their core.

    Sorry you wnet through that, I've had my share.

    Jason



    BTW, I was in your neck of the woods in June. I went to Opal/Mud Butte to brand some late calves and do some home repairs on my friends family ranch.
     
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