Have you ever heard of different churches keeping and sharing notes on people?

[justme6272]

1. Church A keeps database info on everything they know about you as a result of you attending there.
2. You quit Church A and start going to Church B where you want to get involved in VOLUNTEER ministry or just join the church.
3. Church B finds out you attended Church A and secretly calls them up to get the scoop on your life, even though you haven't filled out any applications at Church B or given permission to investigate your church past or go snooping for unlisted references.

I was in a church once where they had what they called an annual spiritual self-evaluation type software program available via contract with a private company who offered it. The idea was to answer very personal questions about the most intimate aspects of your life and compare progress from year to year. Obviously, that data would be stored on someone's server somewhere, tied to your name and email address. Only AFTER you complete the first web page with your name, email address, etc., the site asks you to approve a terms-of-service type page that gives the church permission to contact any other church to discuss YOU.
I thought to myself, "What would keep them from doing that anyway, secretly, even without express approval for them to do so?"

I closed my browser after reading the terms-of-service. But since they now had my name and email address, without my going further, they knew I had chosen not to continue.

I thought it was sleazy to have the terms-of-service agreement page AFTER they get your name and email address. Why would they do that? To compile a list of everyone who had started to participate in the annual spiritual evaluation program, but backed out after reading the terms-of-service. They could have just as easily placed the terms on a web page BEFORE you advance to the page where you enter personal information. Slick, eh?

After the first year of what was suppose to be an annual list of questions to answer and compare, I never saw them discuss the program in church again or send out the link for people to participate. Perhaps they got so much push-back for such a bad idea, they dropped it altogether. They wanted to store sensitive personal information, capture names and emails of people who didn't continue the survey after reading the terms-of-service, and wanted the right to talk to other churches about you just because you participated in their spiritual evaluation program which asked personal question about your current spiritual state and personal life, not what you did or didn't do at previous churches. The 'why' behind the need to contact other churches was not apparent. Since I didn't see all the questions, I can't say if it asked you to name past churches or not. So how would they even know which churches to contact, and why would they need to do that and talk to them about your answers to questions that were part of THEIR program, not the previous church's? The whole thing made no sense.

It was a bad idea from start to finish, but of course, no one was ever held accountable cause that's just how churches operate. The deacons and elders MUST have approved it in addition to the pastors. No one gets held accountable. It's like a good ole boy network.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yeah, gossip can get pretty bad like that.

 

[Dave-W]

I absolutely approve of "church B" contacting "church A" and Every other congregation you have attended before you become a member or participate in any of its ministries.

I have seen too many people that leave a former congregation when they do something out of line and are corrected for it; only to try to do the same thing at the next place.

One "friend" of my mom when I was in grade school bragged about how many congregations she had destroyed.

IMO the pastoral staff is derelict in their duties if they do NOT do that.

 

[zephcom]

1. Church A keeps database info on everything they know about you as a result of you attending there.
2. You quit Church A and start going to Church B where you want to get involved in VOLUNTEER ministry or just join the church.
3. Church B finds out you attended Church A and secretly calls them up to get the scoop on your life, even though you haven't filled out any applications at Church B or given permission to investigate your church past or go snooping for unlisted references.

I was in a church once where they had what they called an annual spiritual self-evaluation type software program available via contract with a private company who offered it. The idea was to answer very personal questions about the most intimate aspects of your life and compare progress from year to year. Obviously, that data would be stored on someone's server somewhere, tied to your name and email address. Only AFTER you complete the first web page with your name, email address, etc., the site asks you to approve a terms-of-service type page that gives the church permission to contact any other church to discuss YOU.
I thought to myself, "What would keep them from doing that anyway, secretly, even without express approval for them to do so?"

I closed my browser after reading the terms-of-service. But since they now had my name and email address, without my going further, they knew I had chosen not to continue.

I thought it was sleazy to have the terms-of-service agreement page AFTER they get your name and email address. Why would they do that? To compile a list of everyone who had started to participate in the annual spiritual evaluation program, but backed out after reading the terms-of-service. They could have just as easily place the terms on a web page BEFORE you advance to the page where you enter personal information. Slick, eh?

After the first year of what was suppose to be an annual list of questions to answer and compare, I never saw them discuss the program in church again or send out the link for people to participate. Perhaps they got so much push-back for such a bad idea, they dropped it altogether. They wanted to store sensitive personal information, capture names and emails of people who didn't continue the survey after reading the terms-of-service, and wanted the right to talk to other church's about you. I think it was a bad idea from start to finish, but of course, no one was ever held accountable cause that's just how churches operate. The deacons and elders MUST have approved it in addition to the pastors. No one gets held accountable. It's like a good ole boy network.

Every wonder why the Catholic Church requires regular confessions?? Ever wonder why Church leaders recommend Christian counseling instead of licensed and regulated medical counseling?

The religion has been collecting personal data for centuries before it became popular in capitalism. It is far easier to control a population when one knows what the population is doing and thinking.

Religion is the last unregulated activity in America.

 

[justme6272]

I absolutely approve of "church B" contacting "church A" and Every other congregation you have attended before you become a member or participate in any of its ministries.

In secret? Without your knowledge? Why the secrets?

 

[Dave-W]

In secret? Without your knowledge? Why the secrets?

No need for secrecy.
It should be public knowledge that any and all congregations are doing just that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In secret? Without your knowledge? Why the secrets?

No need for secrecy.
It should be public knowledge that any and all congregations are doing just that.

It sends the wrong message. With Jesus you always get another chance, but with the church nothing is ever forgotten.

 

[Dave-W]

It sends the wrong message. With Jesus you always get another chance, but with the church nothing is ever forgotten.

Not the wrong message that the leadership is trying to protect their congregants from predators. Even Paul mentioned a couple of them in his letters.

 

[justme6272]

No need for secrecy.
It should be public knowledge that any and all congregations are doing just that.

That's the point. It's not public knowledge. So if they're doing it behind people's backs, that's wrong. I don't know how they'd know which churches you attended anyway unless you told them, and I've only seen that asked on applications for church membership, or perhaps a volunteer form where they ask where you last went to church, or where you were baptized (so that they don't need to do it again), but not every church you've ever attended. Even on such forms, I've never heard of it being like a job application where you sign a disclaimer that you understand that they have the right to contact any church you list.

Then they turn around and acknowledge, if you're lucky, that churches aren't perfect and pastors are mere mortal men and we're all sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God. But I guess that's all put on hold and exceptions are made while they're checking to make sure YOU are just the right kind of little angel to fit perfectly into their fellowship and volunteer your little heart out without ever causing the least little problem. Hypocrites.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Not the wrong message that the leadership is trying to protect their congregants from predators. Even Paul mentioned a couple of them in his letters.

So this creates a divide, where people can be accepted by Jesus, but not the church.

Policies like this affect all visitors predator or not.

 

[justme6272]

So this creates a divide, where people can be accepted by Jesus, but not the church.

Policies like this affect all visitors predator or not.

Sexual predators? Like child molesters? I wasn't even talking about that. It's a given that if you apply to work with kids, they'll get full approval from you on the application to do whatever background check they deem necessary. But the spiritual evaluation survey was something totally different, having nothing to do with anything that may have happened at other churches. It didn't even have to do with formally joining the church or volunteering for anything. It was touted as being for our own benefit as we interacted with a software program and that no one would even be reading it unless you wanted to talk about the results with a pastor and take it to them. It made no sense to involve other churches if that's the way it was going to work. The email invitation they sent out along with a link to do the survey type program was sent to everyone with an email address on file with the church. This particular church didn't even place emphasis on formal church membership like lots of churches claim is so important, reason being, the elders make the decisions. Members don't vote on things, so the idea of formal church membership is not even important. Obviously, some people don't like that set up cause they want to be voting members with a say so in how the church is run. Plenty of churches are getting away from that. The good ole boys decide things, not the laypeople. Personally, that doesn't bother me cause I don't care about voting on things. If the elders do anything too stupid, I know where the door is. But it's an otherwise decent church other than this particular fiasco of wanting to maintain the right to talk to other churches about people after getting hold of their personal and private information. That's one reason why it was so surprising. Again, it was suppose to be an annual thing where you compare the automated results from one year to the next to see what progress you've made in your spiritual journey, but I never heard of it after the one year's attempt to get use to participate. They head pastor wanted everyone to do it. I wish I had the name of the company they contracted with cause I'm sure there would some google results pop up where people have chimed more about how it works.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sexual predators? Like child molesters? I wasn't even talking about that. It's a given that if you apply to work with kids, they'll get full approval from you on the application to do whatever background check they deem necessary. But the spiritual evaluation survey was something totally different, having nothing to do with anything that may have happened at other churches. It was touted as being for our own benefit as we interacted with a software program and that no one would even be reading it unless you wanted to talk about the results with a pastor and take it to them. It made no sense to involve other churches if that's they way it was going to work.

I wasn't talking about that either, I assumed Dave was talking about those who join churches just to cause division and break them apart.

 

[Dave-W]

Sexual predators? Like child molesters? I wasn't even talking about that.

What about gossips that have split multiple congregations by lies and innuendo?

What about people trying to steal congregants away to their own organizations?

What about people trying to disseminate false doctrines?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What about gossips that have split multiple congregations by lies and innuendo?

What about people trying to steal congregants away to their own organizations?

What about people trying to disseminate false doctrines?

I guess in the future I could take signs of this pattern to mean that discipleship is not strong enough at the church yet.

 

[zephcom]

What about gossips that have split multiple congregations by lies and innuendo?

What about people trying to steal congregants away to their own organizations?

What about people trying to disseminate false doctrines?

False doctrine????

Which one of the 30,000+ Christian sects is the one which has the 'true' doctrine?

 

[Rajni]

Every wonder why the Catholic Church requires regular confessions??

The Catholic confessional immediately came to mind
when I read the OP as well. And nowadays, I wouldn't
put it past them to have hidden cameras recording
everything being said -- and by whom -- in those
confessional booths.

I'm so incredibly glad I don't do church anymore...

-

 

[Dave-W]

I guess in the future I could take signs of this pattern to mean that discipleship is not strong enough at the church yet.

More like non-existent.

If most people understood what discipleship really was, they would run for the hills.

 

[justme6272]

The Catholic confessional immediately came to mind
when I read the OP as well. And nowadays, I wouldn't
put it past them to have hidden cameras recording
everything being said -- and by whom -- in those
confessional booths.

I'm so incredibly glad I don't do church anymore...

-

I was kinda hoping those booths were old school and not used anymore. People still go in them and talk? I couldn't see myself having enough respect for a priest to want to tell them anything about myself, much less any sins I had committed.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I was kinda hoping those booths were old school and not used anymore. People still go in them and talk? I couldn't see myself having enough respect for a priest to want to tell them anything about myself, much less any sins I had committed.

If I couldn't think of any sins I'd start confessing the priests, then I'd probably be accused of witchcraft. Not true tho. there's unity in the body. If you sin, so do I.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

More like non-existent.

If most people understood what discipleship really was, they would run for the hills.

There was time when I really really wanted to be discipled and such, but just wasn't in the cards. God filled the gap, desire fulfilled, but what's the church for?