Has Marriage become irrelevant?

Southernscotty

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What you say may be ok if you want a Stepford wife. I don't. I depend on my wife as much as she depends on me. It is a totally equal partnership based on love and mutual respect. You use the word submit. That is what dogs do when confronted by a more aggressive animal. They adopt a submissive posture to let the other animal know it is top dog. Wives are not dogs and neither are husbands.
I find it rather arrogant and insulting that you assume people cannot have a happy and successful
marriage unless they believe as you do, and to make matters worse it is coming from someone who is not even married, which allows me to say without fear of contradiction that you don't know what you are talking about!
You are correct in the fact that I am single. And quite happy at the present moment to remain that way.
The reason is, Well it doesn't matter here, So I will go to next statement of your on the arrogant and insulting part. LoL I bet you do find it insulting, It called conviction and as I stated earlier I will not apologize for having Godly morels. Everything I do and preach is based on God's Word. I just want to glorify my Father, If people have a problem with that then talk to God. I neither placed man nor woman on a pedestal. We are equals in God's eyes, however we are different as man and woman and should serve differing roles. Just as the bride {The church} is to Christ. We are submit fully to Him.
{Dusting my feet off and moving on} Have a great day :]
 
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Par5

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You are correct in the fact that I am single. And quite happy at the present moment to remain that way.
The reason is, Well it doesn't matter here, So I will go to next statement of your on the arrogant and insulting part. LoL I bet you do find it insulting, It called conviction and as I stated earlier I will not apologize for having Godly morels. Everything I do and preach is based on God's Word. I just want to glorify my Father, If people have a problem with that then talk to God. I neither placed man nor woman on a pedestal. We are equals in God's eyes, however we are different as man and woman and should serve differing roles. Just as the bride {The church} is to Christ. We are submit fully to Him.
{Dusting my feet off and moving on} Have a great day :]

You may have Godly morels(sic) whatever they are, but your assumption is still rather arrogant and insulting. When dusting your feet off, make sure you clean between your toes!
 
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Bumble Bee

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Do people no longer see it as a life-long commitment or something of importance?
I am extremely saddened by the state of marriage today. I have had people say they won’t get mrried because they can’t afford the divorce and knew they wouldn’t stay with their SO forever. I have had people say they won’t get married because it’s just a piece of paper and they can’t afford a big wedding like they would like. When I was engaged and trying to explain the part of our vows where we were asking our guests to hold us accountable to this covenant, I had people saying that it was pointless because marriages don’t last anyway. It breaks my heart that people enter in and exit out so easily.
 
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Dave-W

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I will go to next statement of your on the arrogant and insulting part. LoL I bet you do find it insulting, It called conviction and as I stated earlier I will not apologize for having Godly morels. Everything I do and preach is based on God's Word.
Or perhaps your understanding of God's word.

The arrogant part is assuming your interpretation is correct to the exclusion of all others.

That is western linear thinking, which was not the mindset of the biblical authors.
 
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Dave-W

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Tell me SouthernScoty, are you willing to submit yourself to your pastor to the same degree you expect your wife to submit to you?

Hebrews 13:17
 
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Southernscotty

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Tell me SouthernScoty, are you willing to submit yourself to your pastor to the same degree you expect your wife to submit to you?
Yes, I am a pastor myself.
I am just trying to stay true to the bible as I read it and believe it with all my heart. I mean nothing arrogant or insulting and I am sorry that they have taken offence by biblical teaching but it is what the bible says and I will stand on this till God changes it.
We are certainly equals however we should serve differing roles in marriage.
Submission is not a bad thing. Why is it treated as such?
I am a man and as such, I would want a woman to treat me as a man and I would treat the woman as a lady.
I will not argue about this any longer because I am satisfied with my opinion. PS NO I cant spell but I love Morels. LOL
 
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Paidiske

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Submission is treated as a bad thing because so often those who preach it (including husbands) use it as a power-play, a bid for control, an excuse for abuse.

Submission, when given willingly and without any form of coercion, can be beautiful. Submission, as part of a system of coercion, (which it is when people with spiritual authority demand it or claim that it is the only way to be godly etc), is so far from that as to be potentially demonic (something I don't say lightly).
 
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ViaCrucis

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Submission is treated as a bad thing because so often those who preach it (including husbands) use it as a power-play, a bid for control, an excuse for abuse.

Submission, when given willingly and without any form of coercion, can be beautiful. Submission, as part of a system of coercion, (which it is when people with spiritual authority demand it or claim that it is the only way to be godly etc), is so far from that as to be potentially demonic (something I don't say lightly).

I have noticed that "submission" in the sense of power/authority often stems from serious theological error. Since the comparison is often made that husbands are the head even as God is the head of Christ, and Christ is therefore subject to the Father; it assumes a power dynamic in the Trinity that is, at its heart, heretical: Subordinatism.

It is true that the Son willingly submits Himself to the Father in love, but it does not come from a place of subordination, but from a place of love. The dynamic within the Trinity is not one of subordination, but of love. The Son's offering of Himself to the Father is not one-sided, it is part of the mutual Self-offering of God, because the Father gives of Himself to the Son, and the Son gives of Himself to the Father. It is mutual Self-offering, of God to God, selflessly. And it is precisely this model of kenotic and koinonial giving of the self to another, intrinsic to the Triune Godhead, that establishes the pattern of human relationships as they ought to be.

To quote Hans Balthasar,

"That he is Father we know in utmost fullness from Jesus Christ, who constantly makes loving, thankful, and reverent reference to him as his Origin. It is because he bears fruit of himself and requires no fructifying that he is called Father, and not in the sexual sense, for he will be the Creator of man and woman, and thus contains the primal qualities of woman in himself in the same simultaneously transcending way as those of man. (The Greek gennad can imply both siring and bearing, as can the word for to come into being: ginomai.) Jesus' words indicate that this fruitful self-surrender by the primal Origin has neither beginning nor end: It is a perpetual occurence in which essence and activity coincide. Herein lies the most unfathomable aspect of the Mystery of God: that what is absolutely primal is no statically self-contained and comprehensible reality, but one that exists solely in dispensing itself: a flowing wellspring with no holding-trough beneath it, and act of procreation with no seminal vesicle, with no organism at all to perform the act. In the pure act of self-pouring-forth, God the Father is his self, or, if one wishes, a 'person' (in a transcending way).

When the New Testament refers to him in many passages as 'almighty,' it becomes evident from these that this almightiness can be none other than that of surrender which is limited by nothing--what could surpass the power of bringing forth a God 'equal in nature,' that is, equally loving and equally powerful, not another God but an other in God ('In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' Jn 1:1)? If the act of creation is attributed later on to the almighty Father, the GOspel leaves no doubt that God the Son and the Holy Spirit take part with equal almightiness, but still with an almightiness that is originally grounded in the fatherly Origin. It is therefore essential, in the first instance, to see the unimaginable power of the Father in the force of his self-surrender, that is, of his love, and not for example, his being able to do this or that as he chooses. And it is just as essential not to understand the Father's love-almightiness as something darkly elemental, eruptive, prelogical, since his self-giving appears simultaneous as a self-thinking, self-stating, and self-expressing (Heb 1:3): The Logos, the Word that contains every sense in itself, is their product. Just as little is the Father's 'all-mighty' self-testimony something compulsive; rather, it is also the origin of all freedom--once again, not in the sense of doing as one chooses, but in that of superior self-posession of the love which surrenders itself. This freedom is bestowed upon the Son along with divinity (he will become human in sovereign freedom and 'call to him those whom he desires,' Mk 3:13), and it is bestowed by both the Father and the Son upon the Holy Spirit, who 'blows where he wills' (Jn 3:8).

God's love is so complete in itself--he is lover, responding beloved, and union of the fruit of both--that he has need of no extradivine world in order to have something to love. If such a world is freely created by God, apart from any compelling need, then this occurs, from the viewpoint of the Father, in order to glorify the beloved Son; from the viewpoint of the loving Son, in order to lay everything as a gift at the Father's feet; and from the viewpoint of the Spirit, in order to lend new expression to the reciprocal love between Father and Son. Hence, the one triune God is Creator of the world. If this creation is attributed specifically to the Father, then that is because, within God, he is the Origin behind which nothing more can be sought.
" - Credo

Balthasar's language can be verbose and flowery here, but it really boils down to this: God's way of being God is not an act of violent dominance; but humble giving of Himself. The eternal generation of the Son from the Father is the loving surrender and giving, from the Father the Son has His eternal and uncreated Origin as God of God; and likewise the eternal procession of the Spirit is found in the self-giving of God. As we read in Scripture that "all things were made by [Christ] and for [Christ]" and also that at Christ's Parousia He will hand all things over to the Father so that God may "be all in all".

The creation itself is gift, and in this good thing made by God in which God will be glorified, on account of the love of God, we find ourselves, the creatures of God made in the Divine Image and Likeness to reflect that same divine glory. How is that divine glory to be reflected? What does the Divine Image look like? We have that in Christ "the image of the invisible God" and "the radiance of [God's] glory and express image of His hypostasis". It is not through dominance, force, or coersion--but through self-surrendering love of ourselves toward another that we encounter our God-created humanity; it is precisely this which has been marred and broken by sin by which we have turned away from God and each other toward ourselves and which Christ our Savior comes to save us from by destroying the power of sin, death, hell, and the devil and delivering us up from sin and death to God, reconciled, with our face turned toward the glorious hope of resurrection and the renewal of all things. That God may be all in all.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Dave-W

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Yes, I am a pastor myself.
I am just trying to stay true to the bible as I read it and believe it with all my heart. I mean nothing arrogant or insulting and I am sorry that they have taken offence by biblical teaching but it is what the bible says and I will stand on this till God changes it.
We are certainly equals however we should serve differing roles in marriage.
Submission is not a bad thing. Why is it treated as such?
I am a man and as such, I would want a woman to treat me as a man and I would treat the woman as a lady.
I will not argue about this any longer because I am satisfied with my opinion. PS NO I cant spell but I love Morels. LOL
Ok. Who are you submitted to?

FYI as a pastor you come under the qualifications as an elder or deacon - husband of one wife.
 
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lismore

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Submission is treated as a bad thing because so often those who preach it (including husbands) use it as a power-play, a bid for control, an excuse for abuse.

Yes that insecurity is prevalent. But not just in marriage, in every walk of life. You can't lead until you learn to follow.


Submission, when given willingly and without any form of coercion, can be beautiful. Submission, as part of a system of coercion, (which it is when people with spiritual authority demand it or claim that it is the only way to be godly etc), is so far from that as to be potentially demonic (something I don't say lightly).

Do to others as you would have them do unto you.

God Bless :)
 
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hedrick

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Do people no longer see it as a life-long commitment or something of importance?
You've actually asked several different questions:
* has marriage become irrelevant?
* do people no longer see it as life long?

There have been changes in both. But still, based on this data: 8 facts about love and marriage in America, the fraction of people who are married is down 9% in 25 years. A definite change, but not "it's become irrelevant." Interestingly, the change is larger among people of lower education. I don't know why.

Do people see it as lifelong? As far as I know, the answer is yes, in principle. However when things go wrong, they do expect there to be a way out. Remember, is the last century or two there's been a change in what marriage is. People now expect a loving relationship. In earlier times, while that was the ideal, marriages were commonly arranged, and love wasn't the only reason. Today our expectations for the quality of relationship are higher. It used to be that even if there was abuse, people were expected to stay together. I claim the divorce is actually a symptom of a higher view of what is an acceptable marriage than in the past.

Cohabiting is also more common, though people sometimes exaggerate how common (7%, of whom half are under 35, compared to a bit over half married).
 
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Southernscotty

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FYI as a pastor you come under the qualifications as an elder or deacon - husband of one wife.
I am submitted to God. That means being married to one wife at a time, I am not a polygamist, and why I am now single is an issue that I will not discuss here, but it has a completely biblical and legitimate reason behind it.
 
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Southernscotty

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Submission is treated as a bad thing because so often those who preach it (including husbands) use it as a power-play, a bid for control, an excuse for abuse.

Submission, when given willingly and without any form of coercion, can be beautiful. Submission, as part of a system of coercion, (which it is when people with spiritual authority demand it or claim that it is the only way to be godly etc), is so far from that as to be potentially demonic (something I don't say lightly).
I do not use it as a power play or for control and definitely not abuse.
I believe submission should be mutual and a husband and wife should submit to each other in love.
I do believe that a woman should show respect to her husband and I also believe the husband should return respect right back to his wife.
I see the man as the Godly leader of the home and the wife being willfully submissive to him out of respect for his position as a man. Because he has his priorities straight and is the protector of the family as well as the authority figure for their children.
This is the example given for the church {The bride}. We are to submit to Christ and He is our authority of His bride and His children. We are told to reverence Him and I know that through scripture this way is the correct model for a husband and wife. :] Bless you all.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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yes, it's irrelevant in this day and age on neo-selfism.

the things required for marriage to work are things people have no interest in doing. when you can't get past the romantic part of marriage and live in the commitment part then it simply can't work.
 
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Noxot

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each person makes it what it is and judges it by being something in relation to it. for something like marriage there is the extra factor of there being more than one perception involved and if only one side does not work then the marriage fails.

sometimes marriage is a rather useless word. after all to some people all it meant was security or sticking to your tradition of not getting a divorce. is a marriage a marriage if there is no mutual love in it? pfft, call it what you want but it's still trash.
 
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HerCrazierHalf

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Do people no longer see it as a life-long commitment or something of importance?
Personally I see it simply as a continuation of a relationship into forever plus opening up the possibility of children.

Unfortunately, it seems there are a number of risks and penalties that the civil side of marriage adds to the mix. So much so that I think it's a real consideration before marriage.

If anything I feel that marriage has complicated a number of things, especially since the things a couple vs a married couple can do together are really not that different.

Perhaps the civil side of it needs to be revisited since most churches will not (or cannot) perform marriages without the civil entanglements.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Do people no longer see it as a life-long commitment or something of importance?

The only way marriage is relevant for me, is for matters of fiscality and inheritance.

Other then that, it's just a piece of paper.

I've been together with my other half for 20 years now.
We're not married.

During that time, I've known people who got married, bought a house, had kids, divorced, sold the house, remarried, bought a new house, had kids again and divorced again.

Go figure. The paper itself, is meaningless.

A life-long commitment, is set in your conceptual heart. Not on paper.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Men have a duty to protect and love their wife. A woman has a duty to love and submit to her husband.
What is wrong with that?

You mean, other then it being the "tradition" of a time where a woman's role was to live in the kitchen while changing diapers?

It's a biblical viewpoint and I hold "strong" to it. There are some more of those scare quotes. lol Thats funny

You do that. Meanwhile, I actually respect my wife's wishes and ambitions. And I'll go out of my way to support and motivate her in any way I can.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I understand where you want to go. But my answer is the government will never be part of any marriage I participate in.

bugkiller

That's kind of ironic, considering that the gonvernment is the only third party that would ever be relevant in any marriage I participate in (if any at all, that is).

Since it's the government that manages fiscality and inheritance.
I have no other use for that piece of paper.
 
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