Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No, I disagree. What I have heard and seen regarding the so called speaking in tongues these days is just that. Nonsense! I cannot believe that those people who are falling over and screaming out the same noises, again and again, are speaking via the Holy Spirit.

Jesus cast out evil spirits from anyone he met in such a 'trance!'

I am very sceptical of what I see and hear about tongues.

If you are seeing and hearing tongues then the people who are doing it are doing against Paul's clear teaching about it. Paul said that if people behaved like that in a church service and others who didn't know anything about the ministry of the Holy Spirit would think they were mad. Well, you saw it and thought of it negatively, just as Paul said.

Paul's teaching was that speaking in tongues was to be done to God in private, because it is a prayer language. Jesus said not to make your prayers before men but to go into your private prayer place and pray to God in secret. That's where tongues without interpretation belongs.

In verse 18 of 1 Corinthians, Paul thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than them all, yet in the church he'd rather speak five intelligible words so that all would be edified. Now why did he say "yet in the church? If he didn't do all of his tongues speaking in private, where else did he do it if he didn't do it in church? He certainly didn't use tongues to spread the Gospel, because Luke makes no mention of it, and to say that tongues is for that purpose is just pure speculation not supported anywhere in the New Testament. Even on the Day of Pentecost, tongues which were understood by the crowd did not consist in any preaching of the Gospel. It was praise to God for His wonderful works. The preaching of the Gospel was done by Peter in his normal language.

Earlier on in the chapter, in verse 2, Paul says that when he speaks in tongues he is not speaking to men, but to God [in his private prayer time, where else?] and when he is speaking he is speaking mysteries in the Spirit.

So, praying in tongues is a private activity before God alone, and prophecy is the public activity in the church, except, if tongues is used, it is to be followed by an interpretation in intelligible language so that everyone can be built up in their faith.

The devil hates tongues because it is a powerful prayer tool that brings frustration and defeat to him every time. That is why he constantly deceives folks into misusing it and bringing it into disrepute, and he also deceives by using lying spirits to whisper in other folks ears that all people do when they speak in tongues is speaking nonsense. This is in direct contradiction to Paul's teaching, which includes that when a person prays in tongues they are giving thanks well. [when it is used correctly]

Isn't it strange that folks believe the rest of 1 Corinthians and say it is true, while they single out chapter 14 and rubbish it? If chapter 14 is false, then the rest of it has to be as well. If you say that tongues and prophecy are not for today, then you have to say Paul is not right by telling them to discipline the fellow who is being sexually immoral, or that it is right to have factions in the church, or that the resurrection of Christ is not the foundation of Christian faith. But if you are going to say that all these things are true, then you have to accept that there is a true and genuine gift of tongues and prophecy as well. Just because some sections of the church misuse it, doesn't mean that it isn't a true gift that can be used today. Consistency, thou art a jewel!!

Do we say that motor cars are evil because some misuse them by dangerous and drink driving, killing innocent people? Do we ban hunting rifles because some violent people misuse them by shooting their enemies? Of course not! So why throw out the baby with the bath water concerning spiritual gifts?

We either accept that what Paul taught was entirely true, or not. If we take one chapter out of Paul's teaching and say it is not true for today, we might as well say the same about all of his letters. It is either all or nothing. Paul teaches that all Scripture is good for exhortation and correction, not just the bits that suit us.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I remember doing a little research years back on the speaking of tongues when the phenomena became known to me.
Rarely is there ever actual different unknown languages involved. More than that all the sounds that the speaker makes are native to the sounds of his or her own language. It is a simpler form of the native language, not gibberish, but not unlike the playful sounds that a baby makes before sounds are given a meaning.

Maybe in music, the closest things would be the scat of Jazz, where people capture an emotion and a meaning with a sound that is no longer a word per se.

Speaking in tongues captures the beauty of spiritual expression, and to listen is often to be transported to a place of holiness. Gibberish is silly, but speaking in tongues is to enter into a world of beauty, like the most spiritual of music.

I can only imagine to speak in tongues is experienced as a great release as one places one's mind and will and reason and faculties of speech into a full and willing trust in the Lord, in the Holy Spirit even. Stilted paranoids have difficulty in entering into such a state of complete and utter trust as one gives oneself up completely to the Spirit, which is necessary in order to be able to participate in the language of the Spirit.

The danger I think that the Bible warns us about is to not allow the community to become fully enveloped into a mystical irrationality, like a spinning dervish maybe, all about a state of ecstasy without restraint. Extraordinary experience always needs to be anchored to the world of the ordinary and the everyday, which is the world in which Christians do their work.
The emotionalism and artistic expressiveness of speaking in tongues always needs to be tied back to rationality and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, and knowledge and understanding which are the building blocks of a Christian life.

Tongues for me is a way of communication with God. It is a language that I use along with English to say what I want to say to the Lord. It is as simple as that. As prayer in English builds up my faith, prayer in tongues does exactly the same. I am not emotional or artistic when I speak to God in tongues. To me it is a spiritual prayer tool that I use, just the same as I use my power drill in woodworking. I don't feel any emotion while using my drill, sander, saw or plane, so why would emotion be necessary when talking with God? I never use flowery or "religious" language when I talk with God. My talking is from the heart and straightforward. Most times I feel as cold as a fish, just the same as when I am having a routine conversation with anyone else.

 

[swordsman1]

Paul's teaching was that speaking in tongues was to be done to God in private, because it is a prayer language. Jesus said not to make your prayers before men but to go into your private prayer place and pray to God in secret. That's where tongues without interpretation belongs.

In verse 18 of 1 Corinthians, Paul thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than them all, yet in the church he'd rather speak five intelligible words so that all would be edified. Now why did he say "yet in the church? If he didn't do all of his tongues speaking in private, where else did he do it if he didn't do it in church? He certainly didn't use tongues to spread the Gospel, because Luke makes no mention of it, and to say that tongues is for that purpose is just pure speculation not supported anywhere in the New Testament. Even on the Day of Pentecost, tongues which were understood by the crowd did not consist in any preaching of the Gospel. It was praise to God for His wonderful works. The preaching of the Gospel was done by Peter in his normal language.

Earlier on in the chapter, in verse 2, Paul says that when he speaks in tongues he is not speaking to men, but to God [in his private prayer time, where else?] and when he is speaking he is speaking mysteries in the Spirit.

So, praying in tongues is a private activity before God alone, and prophecy is the public activity in the church, except, if tongues is used, it is to be followed by an interpretation in intelligible language so that everyone can be built up in their faith.

Paul makes no mention of speaking in tongues in private. That would be an abuse of a spiritual gift which are for the benefit of others, not self.

1 Cor 12:7 "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good."

1 Pet 4:10 "Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms."

That is why Paul was so critical of the Corinthians who spoke in other tongues without interpretation in their local churches. No one understood the language spoken. It was benefiting nobody but themselves. The tongues that Paul practiced outside of the church in 1 Cor 14:18 would have been in the foreign public places as a confirming sign (Mark 16:17) during his missionary endeavors. Natives hearing their own language being miraculously spoken by a foreigner would have been amazed and recognized that God was with him, and so ready to receive the gospel. Just as happened at Pentecost.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Paul makes no mention of speaking in tongues in private. That would be an abuse of a spiritual gift which are for the benefit of others, not self.

1 Cor 12:7 "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good."

1 Pet 4:10 "Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms."

That is why Paul was so critical of the Corinthians who spoke in other tongues without interpretation in their local churches. No one understood the language spoken. It was benefiting nobody but themselves. The tongues that Paul practiced outside of the church in 1 Cor 14:18 would have been in the foreign public places as a confirming sign (Mark 16:17) during his missionary endeavors. Natives hearing their own language being miraculously spoken by a foreigner would have been amazed and recognized that God was with him, and so ready to receive the gospel. Just as happened at Pentecost.

I don't believe you and I never will.

 

[Antig]

If you are seeing and hearing tongues then the people who are doing it are doing against Paul's clear teaching about it. Paul said that if people behaved like that in a church service and others who didn't know anything about the ministry of the Holy Spirit would think they were mad. Well, you saw it and thought of it negatively, just as Paul said.

Paul's teaching was that speaking in tongues was to be done to God in private, because it is a prayer language. Jesus said not to make your prayers before men but to go into your private prayer place and pray to God in secret. That's where tongues without interpretation belongs.

In verse 18 of 1 Corinthians, Paul thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than them all, yet in the church he'd rather speak five intelligible words so that all would be edified. Now why did he say "yet in the church? If he didn't do all of his tongues speaking in private, where else did he do it if he didn't do it in church? He certainly didn't use tongues to spread the Gospel, because Luke makes no mention of it, and to say that tongues is for that purpose is just pure speculation not supported anywhere in the New Testament. Even on the Day of Pentecost, tongues which were understood by the crowd did not consist in any preaching of the Gospel. It was praise to God for His wonderful works. The preaching of the Gospel was done by Peter in his normal language.

Earlier on in the chapter, in verse 2, Paul says that when he speaks in tongues he is not speaking to men, but to God [in his private prayer time, where else?] and when he is speaking he is speaking mysteries in the Spirit.

So, praying in tongues is a private activity before God alone, and prophecy is the public activity in the church, except, if tongues is used, it is to be followed by an interpretation in intelligible language so that everyone can be built up in their faith.

The devil hates tongues because it is a powerful prayer tool that brings frustration and defeat to him every time. That is why he constantly deceives folks into misusing it and bringing it into disrepute, and he also deceives by using lying spirits to whisper in other folks ears that all people do when they speak in tongues is speaking nonsense. This is in direct contradiction to Paul's teaching, which includes that when a person prays in tongues they are giving thanks well. [when it is used correctly]

Isn't it strange that folks believe the rest of 1 Corinthians and say it is true, while they single out chapter 14 and rubbish it? If chapter 14 is false, then the rest of it has to be as well. If you say that tongues and prophecy are not for today, then you have to say Paul is not right by telling them to discipline the fellow who is being sexually immoral, or that it is right to have factions in the church, or that the resurrection of Christ is not the foundation of Christian faith. But if you are going to say that all these things are true, then you have to accept that there is a true and genuine gift of tongues and prophecy as well. Just because some sections of the church misuse it, doesn't mean that it isn't a true gift that can be used today. Consistency, thou art a jewel!!

Do we say that motor cars are evil because some misuse them by dangerous and drink driving, killing innocent people? Do we ban hunting rifles because some violent people misuse them by shooting their enemies? Of course not! So why throw out the baby with the bath water concerning spiritual gifts?

We either accept that what Paul taught was entirely true, or not. If we take one chapter out of Paul's teaching and say it is not true for today, we might as well say the same about all of his letters. It is either all or nothing. Paul teaches that all Scripture is good for exhortation and correction, not just the bits that suit us.

Well, I see it differently. All the babbling we see and hear is nonsense.

I would be very wary that what comes out of the mouth is not from an evil source.

Why would God want us to pray in a 'language' that we can not understand?

I am sorry but 'tongues' is, and always has been, different languages. Real languages. I do believe that people pick up on what Paul says and then manipulates it to suit they belief about tongues.

 

[Daniel9v9]

To the couple of posts above, I suppose it's written: "Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

 

[Kenny'sID]

They are not understanding what is being said, as some claim is the purpose of tongues to the unbeliever. But not only unbelievers; there are also Christians who are "uninformed" that will also mock today's tongues, because of the same misunderstanding of the purpose of tongues.

Nope, informed would be more like it, informed of scam preachers, one huge problem you forgot to mention, and the very reason the Atheist/unbeliever, as well as Christians are reluctant.

Also, it cannot be proven there is anything going on there when they say only God/the angels can understand it. And if that is the case, why do it in public? Why not talk to God like we are to pray...in private? I'll tell you why, they want to be seen. They have managed to conveniently get past the argument of "Why do the interpreters not understand the language". Jesus proved his gifts, of healing, raising the dead, and it just happens, no one is doing that. True, some fakes try to pull off the healing scam but they've been busted for it.

Is there not one in all of your churches with the gift of healing or raising the dead? Or do they just happen to have the only gift that cannot be proven? If there is, why not do as Jesus did and prove it in order to set the record straight once and for all? Yet that has never once been done?

Entirely too much does not add up here, and before the excuses start pouring in, just know, asking one to prove provable gifts is a reasonable request, once again, Jesus proved it, he did his miracles right before their eyes...provable miracles.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.
Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

I pray in tongues and I have told many of my charismatic brethren and sisters that I believe, but cannot prove, that they are not speaking God given tongues.

I believe that in many cases they are merely mimicking what they have been told they must do to fit in with most charismatic teaching.

 

[Kenny'sID]

To the couple of posts above, I suppose it's written: "Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

Before I comment, what exactly are you saying is taking place there? Please be precise.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

More relevant to the title of this topic is the fact that Paul quotes Isaiah's prophecy in v21 which was referring to the human languages of the invading foreign armies, not unintelligible utterances. In v22 Paul then equates those tongues with the tongues at Corinth. The tongues of scripture were foreign human languages, in both Acts and 1 Corinthians, not the unintelligible utterances we hear today.

I think it may help if I clarify my position so everyone understands where i'm coming from.

1. I believe that v21 and v22 are referring to the same tounques that are mentioned in acts as foreign languages. I'm not saying it doesn't.....I guess the way I phrased my response has everyone confused but I was simply discussion the "sign", not the tounques itself. But yes I agree that in these specific verses the tounques that are being referred to are the tounques in acts.

2. I disagree with you that all tounques today are unintelligible utterances...I believe the experience of acts still happens today I experinced this for myself.

3. I'm simply saying that the "sign" in v 21 and v22 is different it's referring to judgement rather then like in acts 10 and mark 16 and other sections as being one of the signis HOly Spirit. I'm not saying the tounques are different.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Nope, informed would be more like it, informed of scam preachers, one huge problem you forgot to mention, and the very reason the Atheist/unbeliever, as well as Christians are reluctant.

Also, it cannot be proven there is anything going on there when they say only God/the angels can understand it. And if that is the case, why do it in public? Why not talk to God like we are to pray...in private? I'll tell you why, they want to be seen. They have managed to conveniently get past the argument of "Why do the interpreters not understand the language". Jesus proved his gifts, of healing, raising the dead, and it just happens, no one is doing that. True, some fakes try to pull off the healing scam but they've been busted for it.

Is there not one in all of your churches with the gift of healing or raising the dead? Or do they just happen to have the only gift that cannot be proven? If there is, why not do as Jesus did and prove it in order to set the record straight once and for all? Yet that has never once been done?

Entirely too much does not add up here, and before the excuses start pouring in, just know, asking one to prove provable gifts is a reasonable request, once again, Jesus proved it, he did his miracles right before their eyes...provable miracles.

Hi Kenny,

All I can tell you is to pan through all the dirt to find the nuggets of pure gold! It's there if you don't throw out the whole pan from beneath the stream of living water. Don't miss out on what is real because of your anger. Let it go, and seek God with all your heart and you will be filled. Remember John 10:10 and determine who it is you are listening to.

 

[Antig]

Praying in tongues these days is a modern invention. It makes people feel warm and holy.

God can talk to us in our own native language. There is no need for babbling. It is there only for self worth. For making one believe they are speaking to God.

God does not need this. He gave us our own tongue. Why would He want us babbling in a tongue that is unknown to us? Where is the benefit?

 

[Kit Sigmon]

I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

My former pastor mentioned correcting false tongue speakers in the church,
they accepted correction and continued coming to church.

I also read about Toni Braxton confessing to speaking in false tongues as a child to survive in her parents' cult like denomination, she also mentioned other personal struggles etc. This all be in her book Un-break My Heart.... A Memoir:Toni Braxton.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

Common sense told me that those around me were not speaking in real languages --- duration of tongue vs interpretation length for example.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Common sense told me that those around me were not speaking in real languages --- duration of tongue vs interpretation length for example.

I already explained that in another post on this thread.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My former pastor mentioned correcting false tongue speakers in the church,
they accepted correction and continued coming to church.

I also read about Toni Braxton confessing to speaking in false tongues as a child to survive in her parents' cult like denomination, she also mentioned other personal struggles etc. This all be in her book Un-break My Heart.... A Memoir:Toni Braxton.

Where there is a counterfeit there always has to be the genuine. Just because some people's limited experience includes just the false type of tongues, it doesn't mean that there is not the genuine outside of their experience.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I pray in tongues and I have told many of my charismatic brethren and sisters that I believe, but cannot prove, that they are not speaking God given tongues.

I believe that in many cases they are merely mimicking what they have been told they must do to fit in with most charismatic teaching.

That can be quite true. Peer pressure can be very strong. Every believer must spend time with God alone, away from his or her peers, to find out God's will. When I encourage a person to receive the gift of tongues, my first requirement is that they fully know and accept that it is God's will for them. If they are not sure and tell me that they want to speak in tongues because their Christians friends in church are doing it, I stop them and encourage them to go away and wait on God until they get a settled assurance that it is what God wants them to do and not just what their friends would like.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Praying in tongues these days is a modern invention. It makes people feel warm and holy.

God can talk to us in our own native language. There is no need for babbling. It is there only for self worth. For making one believe they are speaking to God.

God does not need this. He gave us our own tongue. Why would He want us babbling in a tongue that is unknown to us? Where is the benefit?

I had a dream last night. I dreamed that I was listening to a parrot. It was in a room overhearing two demons talking. They were talking about the threat that believers who prayed in tongues was bringing on the kingdom of darkness. "Too many people are being lost to our kingdom because of the power of prayer, and the most powerful prayers have been in tongues", said the first demon. The second demon replied, "What can we do about it?" The first demon thought for a while and then came up with a great idea:
"What we will do is to get many of the cult churches to start speaking in tongues and do it while in a trance. We'll get people falling on the floor and twitching and shaking, while speaking in tongues. That would causes others to point the finger and say that's got to be false. We'll get a few lying spirits in there to stir the pot further. Then we'll get people in the good churches to think they can speak out in tongues in public meetings where there are a lot of unbelievers present, and we will get lying spirits to say, "These people are mad". We will sow lies to some of the most "respected" Bible teachers and induce them to teach that tongues is mixed with ecstacy and a person has to be really hyped up in their emotions to be able to speak in tongues. Then the lying spirit will tell them that tongues ceased when the last Apostle died and that all modern use of tongues is false. We will also get young believers in churches to believe the lies that tongues is false and meaningless and then drum it into them for years on end so they will be so prejudiced against tongues that they will resist any attempts to show them that 1 Corinthians 14 is true today. We will then put a lying spirit into some "respected" teachers to say that tongues should always be in church with an interpreter and that there is no private function for the gift. The main thing we have to do is to make sure that Christian believers don't, and I mean don't take Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians literally, that he speaks in tongues more them all in his private devotions and that believers should not forbid to speak in tongues. We will convince believers that Paul didn't really mean what he said in that chapter, and we will convince anyone seeking tongues that if they try, they will receive a fake and start speaking blasphemies. To top it all off, we will manufacture horror stories, unproven of course, of all the spooky events involving tongues and the many prospective believers who were put off Christianity by their experience of tongues. Then, all those believers who would certainly bring defeat to our kingdom of darkness will be neutralised and our master Satan would have to spend any time worrying about them."

After the parrot repeated these things, I woke up and realised it was all just an unsettling dream.

 

[Antig]

I had a dream last night. I dreamed that I was listening to a parrot. It was in a room overhearing two demons talking. They were talking about the threat that believers who prayed in tongues was bringing on the kingdom of darkness. "Too many people are being lost to our kingdom because of the power of prayer, and the most powerful prayers have been in tongues", said the first demon. The second demon replied, "What can we do about it?" The first demon thought for a while and then came up with a great idea:
"What we will do is to get many of the cult churches to start speaking in tongues and do it while in a trance. We'll get people falling on the floor and twitching and shaking, while speaking in tongues. That would causes others to point the finger and say that's got to be false. We'll get a few lying spirits in there to stir the pot further. Then we'll get people in the good churches to think they can speak out in tongues in public meetings where there are a lot of unbelievers present, and we will get lying spirits to say, "These people are mad". We will sow lies to some of the most "respected" Bible teachers and induce them to teach that tongues is mixed with ecstacy and a person has to be really hyped up in their emotions to be able to speak in tongues. Then the lying spirit will tell them that tongues ceased when the last Apostle died and that all modern use of tongues is false. We will also get young believers in churches to believe the lies that tongues is false and meaningless and then drum it into them for years on end so they will be so prejudiced against tongues that they will resist any attempts to show them that 1 Corinthians 14 is true today. We will then put a lying spirit into some "respected" teachers to say that tongues should always be in church with an interpreter and that there is no private function for the gift. The main thing we have to do is to make sure that Christian believers don't, and I mean don't take Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians literally, that he speaks in tongues more them all in his private devotions and that believers should not forbid to speak in tongues. We will convince believers that Paul didn't really mean what he said in that chapter, and we will convince anyone seeking tongues that if they try, they will receive a fake and start speaking blasphemies. To top it all off, we will manufacture horror stories, unproven of course, of all the spooky events involving tongues and the many prospective believers who were put off Christianity by their experience of tongues. Then, all those believers who would certainly bring defeat to our kingdom of darkness will be neutralised and our master Satan would have to spend any time worrying about them."

After the parrot repeated these things, I woke up and realised it was all just an unsettling dream.

That's it! You have been living in a dream world!

Open your eyes to God. See and feel the truth. Tongues is for teaching. Tongues is for preaching the word of God to unbelievers! Awesome!

Praise be to God...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's it! You have been living in a dream world!

Open your eyes to God. See and feel the truth. Tongues is for teaching. Tongues is for preaching the word of God to unbelievers! Awesome!

Praise be to God...

Oh, I missed out that part where the demon suggested that the lying spirit put that into the ears of some as well!