Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

no he's never told me that in fact all I did was tell GOd i wanted his HOly SPirit one day and cryed out and sought and I got it as they did in acts with speaking in tounques. I sough the holy ghost and that's just how I received it. After that i was able to stop fornicating and leave things I was doing in the past. IN fact now whenever I pray sometimes I speak during the prayer and it gives me energy. I'm a minister now too for an apostolic church.

For me the experience and the continued experience of tounques has had a positive effect on my life just in general. I heard it was some demonic thing but i've been sinning less and more like CHrist with the experience then without it. Figured it would be the opposite if that was the case. Also it's biblical that people received the holy Ghost with the evidence of tounques through acts. IDK why people rush to call it gibberish now if it was fine then.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

IMO the following could prove whether or not tongues and the interpretation of them are via the Holy Spirit. One person speaks in tongues. 2 people who claim to have the gift of interpreting tongues, each give their interpretation of what was spoken. If their interpretations are not close to identical, this should tell us the Holy Spirit is not involved in this.

or if it's not a further revelation of Christ ..

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I'm quite interested to hear if anyone realized they were not being inspired by God to speak what is called "tongues".

In scripture much of what is going on in tongues is not matching what the word of God says. In a service if tongues are spoken their must be an interpreter and two no more than three can speak. Often we see hundreds of people doing what Paul said would cause an unbeliever to think all these people are nuts. The scriptures say that in tongues people proclaim the greatness of God and often the interpretations are not declaring this but something else. Paul said he would rather speak a few words with reason than many in tongues and teaches that tongues edifies the one speaking and he declared he spoke more in tongues than most but in private. You then get people teaching you are not saved unless you have this gift and the encourage you to start babbling. The scriptures clearly says to desire the better gifts and notes not all speak in tongues and tongues is ranked at the bottom of the list.

 

[DavidPT]

or if it's not a further revelation of Christ ..

What exactly are you meaning though?

 

[DavidPT]

no he's never told me that in fact all I did was tell GOd i wanted his HOly SPirit one day and cryed out and sought and I got it as they did in acts with speaking in tounques. I sough the holy ghost and that's just how I received it. After that i was able to stop fornicating and leave things I was doing in the past. IN fact now whenever I pray sometimes I speak during the prayer and it gives me energy. I'm a minister now too for an apostolic church.

For me the experience and the continued experience of tounques has had a positive effect on my life just in general. I heard it was some demonic thing but i've been sinning less and more like CHrist with the experience then without it. Figured it would be the opposite if that was the case. Also it's biblical that people received the holy Ghost with the evidence of tounques through acts. IDK why people rush to call it gibberish now if it was fine then.

If it's the same tongues today as back then, that means what was applicable back then should still be applicable today. Such as the following.

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Apparently this people in verse 21 is meaning the Jews. That would indicate verse 22 is being applied to them for their benefit. Can you then provide some examples from our day and age where 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 is still being applied within Pentecostal and Charismatic churches? I was a Charismatic for a number of years some years back, and I don't recall one single time where 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 ever played a part in anything. But why though if the tongues of today are meaning these same tongues back then?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

What exactly are you meaning though?

Any blessing that is for the church should contain revelation of the spiritual living and heavenly principles of the kingdom of the heavens because the church is built on Christ and the Father's revelation of Him. Therefore if it's anything that is not revealed previously but now freshly re-covered (not according to to the principles of God) it should be rejected. That's what I have seen prove true anyway.

 

[Francis Drake]

I can't speak to anyone else's interpretation or experience, and I'm not here to argue doctrine. I can only say that He asked me not to do it anymore.

But what makes you think that it was God who asked you to stop speaking in tongues?

For several years of my adult life, I did believe in Pentecostal teachings, and I have spoken in tongues. It is genuine. It does happen. When I spoke in tongues, I had no control over the sounds that came out of my mouth, nor did I have any idea what I was saying.

Then it was brought to my attention that part of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. If I am not in control of what my mouth is doing, then is it really of God?

Equally, when you remain in control of your mouth, is that really God?

Until that question is entirely resolved in my mind, I won't speak in tongues again.

 

[dqhall]

This is an example of "speaking in tongues" type activity in one church:

 

[DavidPT]

I can't speak to anyone else's interpretation or experience, and I'm not here to argue doctrine. I can only say that He asked me not to do it anymore. For several years of my adult life, I did believe in Pentecostal teachings, and I have spoken in tongues. It is genuine. It does happen. When I spoke in tongues, I had no control over the sounds that came out of my mouth, nor did I have any idea what I was saying.

Then it was brought to my attention that part of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. If I am not in control of what my mouth is doing, then is it really of God?

Until that question is entirely resolved in my mind, I won't speak in tongues again.

I too allegedly spoke in tongues during the days when I was actively involved in the Charismatic movement. I have since quit speaking in them though, haven't spoke in tongues since sometime in the early 90s, or maybe mid 90s, not certain offhand. But I quit for entirely different reasons than why you did, and that I distanced myself from the Charismatic movement at that time, and that I would never for any reason get myself involved in that movement ever again.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

The bible tells us to "1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts", I have always desired to speak in tongues, and I have found it very useful when I don't know what I need to pray for a person. I pray in tongues when I don't know what to pray in the natural.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

God has never told me to stop when I have been praying.

 

[1stcenturylady]

(1) my concern that it was being declared as a sign gift that every believer must have as proof of being filled

It was never used as "proof." The proof of one being filled with the Spirit is clear - they are dead to sin, and have a new nature. But the Spirit we receive does also manifest Himself through His gifts. As far as tongues, there is the sign and then there is the gift. The sign reference is in Mark 16, whereas the gift reference is in 1 Corinthians 12. All who believe are given the sign gift whether or not they use it, or even know they have it, so it can not be "proof." It is part of the armor of God allowing us to pray God's perfect will. The gift is not given to all, and is only used during a church service. It is restricted to two or three and is required to have interpretation. This is unlike the prayer and praise language that can actually be done altogether as the 120 did on the Day of Pentecost. Even though the devout Jews supernaturally understood their individual language among the cacophony of different languages spoken, interpretation is not a requirement. Our prayer and praise language is what is called a "sign to the unbeliever" but that can easily be misinterpreted. It is the same type of sign as the sign of Jesus in Luke 2:34 - a sign which will be spoken AGAINST. An unbeliever or an uninformed Christian will mock tongues, as the mockers did on the Day of Pentecost, and is recorded in answer to verse 22 in 1 Corinthians 14:23. Together these two verses should stop the misinterpretation that tongues is for the purpose of preaching to unbelievers, a total fallacy. That is not to say that God can't produce a miracle with regards to language barriers, as Oscar recalled in Italy. But, again, that is not the purpose of the sign gift.

(2) that people were interrupting the exercise of a different gift to get their message out.

Tongues is totally in our control. Anyone who disregards Paul's instructions to NOT interrupt another gift, is out of order.

(3) that “singing in the Spirit” seemed to me like an en masse disregard of the God mandate for interpretation.

When the 120 all spoke in tongues together on the Day of Pentecost, it could just as easily have been sung. Here again is the misunderstanding between the sign of tongues and the gift of tongues. What you are referring to regarding mandates is only for the gift. But in a service where all who are present are Spirit-filled informed believers, praising God in song as a choir is allowed.

(4) that a person would speak in tongues for maybe 10 seconds, then give a 2-minute interpretation.

Interpretation does not mean word for word translation, therefore can vary in length.

(5) a straight up prophesying would have sufficed

God commands us what to do, we don't tell Him what will suffice. It is called, the fear of the Lord, and that is the beginning of wisdom. So be careful not to fall into pride, that your reasoning is better than the Lord's. Just look at the way Jesus healed. He mixed it up, hardly ever healing the same way twice. That was on purpose to teach us His ways are not our ways.[/QUOTE]

 

[Deadworm]

Paul wants everyone to speak in tongues and even thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone else. Since Paul is constantly on the move in his missionary efforts and care, the obvious implication is that he regularly prays in tongues in the manner that requires no interpretation. Paul encourages us to "strive for" spiritual gifts, including tongues. But what does this striving entail?

The vagueness of Paul's command has led to the flesh taking over. Preachers encourage seekers to "just speak in out" in faith and the Spirit will take over and do the rest. The problem is that one can easily learn to spout gibberish and if we begin in the flesh, our gibberish will remain in the flesh. So how should we "strive" to speak in tongues?

As a teenager, I caught myself mechanically praying in tongues and later felt that it wasn't real. This made me doubt whether there really was a Holy Spirit. I eventually learned what it means to seek the Giver rather than the gift. Seeking the gift can make tongues a kind of fetish, an artificial high with no long lasting effect. The real thing can be sought and found like this: Allow yourself to long every more intensely for more of God until you get lost in praise. As the Holy Spirit moves in, your language will seem mechanical, contrived, and inadequate to express the rich experience of grace you are receiving. This frustration with your language can prompt a natural surrender of your tongue that allows the Spirit to take over and provide another "tongue."

The first time I discerned this distinction was in a darkened church after the evening service. As I tarried long in a burning thirst for more of God, I suddenly felt enveloped by the warm breeze of the Spirit and exploded into tongues. I was engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love of ever increasing intensity, so powerfully that at one point I thought it might kill me! At one point it felt like my ego might just be absorbed in God consciousness. It was an experience that could not be doubted, the most precious, sweet, and life-changing experience of my life. Soon spectators move in to watch to watch my burn with love for the Lord. This made me feel self-conscious; So I asked one lady why she was storing at me and she replied, 'Don't you know? Your face is glowing in the dark!"

A Lutheran pastor approached to kneel beside me. He told me he was just there as a visitor and wasn't into the ecstatic gifts. But he could tell that the Spirit was doing a special work in me. So he he asked me to lay hands on him. When I gently touched his forehead, he just exploded in tongues, lost in praise!

Because Pentecostals too often inadvertently encourage the flesh in the quest for tongues, I'd estimate that 90% of tongues speaking is of the flesh. But the 10% that is real makes the quest for tongues eminently worthwhile because authentic tongues can be the highlight of one's life, absolutely life-changing and downright mind-boggling.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Paul wants everyone to speak in tongues and even thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone else. Since Paul is constantly on the move in his missionary efforts and care, the obvious implication is that he regularly prays in tongues in the manner that requires no interpretation. Paul encourages us to "strive for" spiritual gifts, including tongues. But what does this striving entail?

The vagueness of Paul's command has led to the flesh taking over. Preachers encourage seekers to "just speak in out" in faith and the Spirit will take over and do the rest. The problem is that one can easily learn to spout gibberish and if we begin in the flesh, our gibberish will remain in the flesh. So how should we "strive" to speak in tongues?

As a teenager, I caught myself mechanically praying in tongues and later felt that it wasn't real. This made me doubt whether there really was a Holy Spirit. I eventually learned what it means to seek the Giver rather than the gift. Seeking the gift can make tongues a kind of fetish, an artificial high with no long lasting effect. The real thing can be sought and found like this: Allow yourself to long every more intensely for more of God until you get lost in praise. As the Holy Spirit moves in, your language will seem mechanical, contrived, and inadequate to express the rich experience of grace you are receiving. This frustration with your language can prompt a natural surrender of your tongue that allows the Spirit to take over and provide another "tongue."

The first time I discerned this distinction was in a darkened church after the evening service. As I tarried long in a burning thirst for more of God, I suddenly felt enveloped by the warm breeze of the Spirit and exploded into tongues. I was engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love of ever increasing intensity, so powerfully that at one point I thought it might kill me! At one point it felt like my ego might just be absorbed in God consciousness. It was an experience that could not be doubted, the most precious, sweet, and life-changing experience of my life. Soon spectators move in to watch to watch my burn with love for the Lord. This made me feel self-conscious; So I asked one lady why she was storing at me and she replied, 'Don't you know? Your face is glowing in the dark!"

A Lutheran pastor approached to kneel beside me. He told me he was just there as a visitor and wasn't into the ecstatic gifts. But he could tell that the Spirit was doing a special work in me. So he he asked me to lay hands on him. When I gently touched his forehead, he just exploded in tongues, lost in praise!

Because Pentecostals too often inadvertently encourage the flesh in the quest for tongues, I'd estimate that 90% of tongues speaking is of the flesh. But the 10% that is real makes the quest for tongues eminently worthwhile because authentic tongues can be the highlight of one's life, absolutely life-changing and downright mind-boggling.

Your final paragraph is my experience at praying in tongues. I don't speak out in tongues at church because I am an elder in a Presbyterian non-Charismatic church. I have been away from any Charismatic church for the last 40 years, so all my praying in tongues is not allied to the Pentecostal or Charismatic movements. All I do is just believe 1 Corinthians 14 and use the gift in accordance with what Paul taught. My praying in tongues has certainly been a life-changing and downright mind-boggling experience at times when I have observed the results of it in my life and in the life of others. At least one intercessory event, my praying in tongues for someone in hospital saved their life.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

If it's the same tongues today as back then, that means what was applicable back then should still be applicable today. Such as the following.

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Apparently this people in verse 21 is meaning the Jews. That would indicate verse 22 is being applied to them for their benefit. Can you then provide some examples from our day and age where 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 is still being applied within Pentecostal and Charismatic churches? I was a Charismatic for a number of years some years back, and I don't recall one single time where 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 ever played a part in anything. But why though if the tongues of today are meaning these same tongues back then?

I'm confused can you explain how you believe 1 corinthians 14:21-22 isn't being applied? that would help me.

Are you saying touques isn't benefiting the churcH?


are you saying the church you were in didn't have tounques?

Just trying to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Blade]

Oscarr! Don't know you but I really like your post. I dont always agree but.. I see. your heart in what you post.

I watched a pretty well-known preacher say, the way people received this gift. It does not happen like that anymore. So I wrote him on how it happen to me.

I use to go to this bible study with my mom. Every now and then they would very kindly ask if I wanted the gift of tongues. I kept saying no. And they never said another word. And I don't remember them every just all speaking in tongues.. yeah.. never. They would say if we say anything that is no the word dont believe us. Well one night they asked me again. I said yes. So I sit in this chair and he and his wife (grandparents. Where she prayed 4+ hours a day). They read the verse Jesus said and some others. He then asks me again. I say yes. He prayes. Then stops. Says "thats it you got it".

Huh? Nothing happen..I didnt feel anything. So I get up.. I go to sit down and BAM! It just came out. Iw as not thinking anything. NO one said a word to me just after that. Then to read in the bible its EXACTLY how it happen to them.

For Jesus spoke only what the Father said. The Father said "give to them that ask". Jesus told the 120 to wait for the promise. They could have all walked off never waited and all were Christians. What Jesus did.. is exactly what the Father said. He asked the Father for what? To give to the 120?

Gibberish? Ever notice how I put "sweet sweet Holy Spirit"? The word says He will not speak of Himself. So we know He speaks. The 12 even said "the Holy Spirit said". He is VERY VERY easy to grieve. For me.. when I pray in tongues.. I can't explain it. Its just as Jesus said.. you shall receive power. For me it always points to Christ/The Father. Always helps.. always for good. I believe John 3:16.. I believe when Jesus said ASK or who so ever believes on and on.

Jesus is REAL. He can't lie. So if HE said.. if I ask the Father.. and the Faher will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask. Any time I get stuck.. I ask Him. Not what some man in this world that has the same info I can get. And then I only get their personal feelings or belief. I asked.. and He always does what HE said. I one does not believe in tongues.. praise GOD. I believe everything He says. Not what some man tells me what Jesus really meant or the gifts are gone or dead.. for me.. lol that which is PERFECT wow has not come.

Forgive me. I am no writer and I pray I some how answered. NO the Father has never said a word. When I get stuck.. I do pray in the spirit. I pray about all things also in the Spirit. I dont think I have done as much as my brother Paul that prayed more in tongues.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I realize this section is often about debate and what not but trying to tell someone whos believes strongly in this thats part of a group like pentecostal or charismatic that they are wrong is kind of silly. Odds are they aren't going to believe anything you present to them because they are part of said group. Just as you can't tell someone from any group that what they believe is wrong, even if you have biblical evidence.

For example I tend to debate with catholics about some of their practices and they debate about some of mine as a non-denom christian. Neither one of us will admit we are the wrong ones because we were raised with what we believe is the truth. Doesn't hurt to debate of course, but don't expect people to change.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

no he's never told me that in fact all I did was tell GOd i wanted his HOly SPirit one day and cryed out and sought and I got it as they did in acts with speaking in tounques. I sough the holy ghost and that's just how I received it. After that i was able to stop fornicating and leave things I was doing in the past. IN fact now whenever I pray sometimes I speak during the prayer and it gives me energy. I'm a minister now too for an apostolic church.

For me the experience and the continued experience of tounques has had a positive effect on my life just in general. I heard it was some demonic thing but i've been sinning less and more like CHrist with the experience then without it. Figured it would be the opposite if that was the case. Also it's biblical that people received the holy Ghost with the evidence of tounques through acts. IDK why people rush to call it gibberish now if it was fine then.

A great testimony!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I realize this section is often about debate and what not but trying to tell someone whos believes strongly in this thats part of a group like pentecostal or charismatic that they are wrong is kind of silly. Odds are they aren't going to believe anything you present to them because they are part of said group. Just as you can't tell someone from any group that what they believe is wrong, even if you have biblical evidence.

For example I tend to debate with catholics about some of their practices and they debate about some of mine as a non-denom christian. Neither one of us will admit we are the wrong ones because we were raised with what we believe is the truth. Doesn't hurt to debate of course, but don't expect people to change.

I understand that. But it is the silent majority who read these posts without commenting who are important. They will read the different sides of the debate and come to their own conclusions. If some of those are helped by the reading, then the debate is productive.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oscarr! Don't know you but I really like your post. I dont always agree but.. I see. your heart in what you post.

I watched a pretty well-known preacher say, the way people received this gift. It does not happen like that anymore. So I wrote him on how it happen to me.

I use to go to this bible study with my mom. Every now and then they would very kindly ask if I wanted the gift of tongues. I kept saying no. And they never said another word. And I don't remember them every just all speaking in tongues.. yeah.. never. They would say if we say anything that is no the word dont believe us. Well one night they asked me again. I said yes. So I sit in this chair and he and his wife (grandparents. Where she prayed 4+ hours a day). They read the verse Jesus said and some others. He then asks me again. I say yes. He prayes. Then stops. Says "thats it you got it".

Huh? Nothing happen..I didnt feel anything. So I get up.. I go to sit down and BAM! It just came out. Iw as not thinking anything. NO one said a word to me just after that. Then to read in the bible its EXACTLY how it happen to them.

For Jesus spoke only what the Father said. The Father said "give to them that ask". Jesus told the 120 to wait for the promise. They could have all walked off never waited and all were Christians. What Jesus did.. is exactly what the Father said. He asked the Father for what? To give to the 120?

Gibberish? Ever notice how I put "sweet sweet Holy Spirit"? The word says He will not speak of Himself. So we know He speaks. The 12 even said "the Holy Spirit said". He is VERY VERY easy to grieve. For me.. when I pray in tongues.. I can't explain it. Its just as Jesus said.. you shall receive power. For me it always points to Christ/The Father. Always helps.. always for good. I believe John 3:16.. I believe when Jesus said ASK or who so ever believes on and on.

Jesus is REAL. He can't lie. So if HE said.. if I ask the Father.. and the Faher will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask. Any time I get stuck.. I ask Him. Not what some man in this world that has the same info I can get. And then I only get their personal feelings or belief. I asked.. and He always does what HE said. I one does not believe in tongues.. praise GOD. I believe everything He says. Not what some man tells me what Jesus really meant or the gifts are gone or dead.. for me.. lol that which is PERFECT wow has not come.

Forgive me. I am no writer and I pray I some how answered. NO the Father has never said a word. When I get stuck.. I do pray in the spirit. I pray about all things also in the Spirit. I dont think I have done as much as my brother Paul that prayed more in tongues.

You have expressed yourself very well and I appreciate your testimony of God's love and grace that He gave you the gift with any hassles and that it has been a blessing to you ever since.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm confused can you explain how you believe 1 corinthians 14:21-22 isn't being applied? that would help me.

Are you saying touques isn't benefiting the churcH?


are you saying the church you were in didn't have tounques?

Just trying to understand where you're coming from.

Oh yes. It does benefit the church when it is used in tandem with interpretation. But there is also a great benefit for the church, because the church is not the building but the people in it. Therefore if there are people in the church who pray in tongues in their private prayer lives, this enhances their experience with God, and so when they come to church they bring the Holy Spirit atmosphere with them - even if they never speak in tongues in church.

I spent the first 12 years of my Christian life in churches where they spoke in tongues. But for the last 26 years I have been involved in a "middle of the road" Presbyterian church that doesn't officially teach tongues. But when I have preached on that topic the folk have received the teaching without any trouble, and several have wanted more information about it. I think it is because I have advocated tongues without the spooky spiritual staff and hype that sometimes comes with it in some places. I am pretty down to earth about it and say that all it is, is praying in a language that I have never learned, to express my heart to the Lord, and that there is no ecstacy involved with it, but it is just as natural as when I pray in English.