Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

[1stcenturylady]

Jude 20 has nothing to do with tongues.

That's what you think

 

[1stcenturylady]

The instructions that Paul gave in 1 Corinthians, as far back as chapter 11, were for church worship, so everything he said about tongues was in the context of coming to the church meeting and what people should do there, and how they should go about it. Paul says very little about the private use of tongues because the Corinthians didn't seem to have any problems in that direction, so there was no need to give any corrective instructions about it, other than to say not to forbid the speaking of it. 1 Corinthians is a corrective book for the Corinthian church, not a manual of instruction per se. But, having said that, we need to take notice of the corrective comments because Paul is telling them they were getting their church worship wrong and "here is the way to do it correctly." This included tongues in the church worship context. To say that one is not to pray in tongues privately is putting words into Paul's mouth that are not there.

I agree with this. The corrective aspect also had to do with the importance of the gift of interpretation of tongues, which is also prophecy, a higher gift.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Rubbish. Those sources are neither prominent nor respected. They are either:

• Folklore about miracles attributed to prominent Catholics in order gain their sainthood. Those men made no claim to speaking in tongues themselves, nor were any made in their lifetimes.
• Claims made by heretical groups.
• Unsubstantiated claims from unknown third parties.

RUBBISH!

 

[1stcenturylady]

These are great quotes for this thread!

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”


"A man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion"

 

[swordsman1]

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

 

[swordsman1]

That's what you think

Me, and practically every commentator on that verse.

 

[swordsman1]

These are great quotes for this thread!

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”


"A man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion"

Ah, man's wisdom. Here's a quote about that....

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God."

 

[1stcenturylady]

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

But they still can speak to himself and to God, even though they don't understand. The point is it is allowed.

 

[bbbbbbb]

But they still can speak to himself and to God, even though they don't understand. The point is it is allowed.

Then the question becomes one which asks why God needs to hear prayers in an entirely unknown language from a Christian such the said Christian has no clue as to what he is praying versus hearing the prayer in a language known to both God and the Christian. Is God somehow more impressed with "tongues"?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Then the question becomes one which asks why God needs to hear prayers in an entirely unknown language from a Christian such the said Christian has no clue as to what he is praying versus hearing the prayer in a language known to both God and the Christian. Is God somehow more impressed with "tongues"?

What I can't understand is why you want to question God rather than just obey Him.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What I can't understand is why you want to question God rather than just obey Him.

Where does God command anyone to utter sounds in an unverifiable, and potentially meaningless, manner?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Where does God command anyone to utter sounds in an unverifiable, and potentially meaningless, manner?

New Testament.

 

[bbbbbbb]

New Testament.

That does narrow it down somewhat. Precisely where in the New Testament is this command enunciated?

 

[1stcenturylady]

That does narrow it down somewhat. Precisely where in the New Testament is this command enunciated?

1 Corinthians 14

 

[bbbbbbb]

Great. Perhaps I am missing something. Would you kindly highlight the specific command for me?

14 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. 4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching? 7 Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp? 8 For if the c]">[c]bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle? 9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning. 11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me. 12 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.

13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. 16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. 18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature. 21 In the Law it is written, “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord. 22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. 36 Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?

37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Great. Perhaps I am missing something. Would you kindly highlight the specific command for me?

14 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. 4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching? 7 Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp? 8 For if the c]">[c]bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle? 9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning. 11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me. 12 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.

13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. 16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. 18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature. 21 In the Law it is written, “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord. 22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. 36 Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?

37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

You study it and if you can do so with an open heart to believe, I'm sure the Holy Spirit will show you. But right now I don't think that is the case. If I showed you, and even if by some miracle you were convinced, from how you have belittled a gift of God, I think you would still raise your back up and refuse. I am willing to help anyone who is honestly seeking. I just don't think you are.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You study it and if you can do so with an open heart to believe, I'm sure the Holy Spirit will show you. But right now I don't think that is the case. If I showed you, and even if by some miracle you were convinced, from how you have belittled a gift of God, I think you would still raise your back up and refuse. I am willing to help anyone who is honestly seeking. I just don't think you are.

Now, that is not much of a response. You told me that I need to obey God and speak in tongues, did you not? My question, which is really very direct, is where has God commanded anyone to speak in tongues. When God issues a commandment, obedience is required, but where there is no commandment, there can be no obedience.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Now, that is not much of a response. You told me that I need to obey God and speak in tongues, did you not? My question, which is really very direct, is where has God commanded anyone to speak in tongues. When God issues a commandment, obedience is required, but where there is no commandment, there can be no obedience.

When a person has a heart to obey God, they will. Nothing will stop them. When they don't, nothing will cause them to.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But they still can speak to himself and to God, even though they don't understand. The point is it is allowed.

It is prayer if it is not said aloud and is only for God to hear and be communicated to. Are you trying to say it is anything more than that?

 

[ToBeLoved]

What I can't understand is why you want to question God rather than just obey Him.

Isn't this a conversation about theology and scripture?

To say that someone does not want to obey God is a little personal and we are not to direct comments towards a person.