Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

[Rita G.]

We preach that we should love God and each other.

. . and then go out and live the double standard.

 

[Rita G.]

We preach holy living as well.

you don't peach the law, so where do you get your guidelines?

 

[Kenny'sID]

No. We preach that we should love God and each other. That sums up the whole Law.

And since it sums up the law, for those who might not know the particulars of the law, maybe it would be loving to tell them what it is, or, in short, teach it. You would seriously not mention the law to a new believer, and in some detail? Or do you just say, love one another, and you'll figure it out?

There are several verses in the new testament that list some of those laws, that I personally would teach and make sure a new believer was aware of them. Keeping them will be tough enough, so much less complicated if they don't have to figure them out for themselves. Fortunately the writer of those verses felt it important enough to list them, or "teach" them, if you will.

 

[Rita G.]

We have homosexual ministers who were ordained before they "came out". These ministers are allowed to continue their ministry,

We preach holy living as well.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

you don't peach the law, so where do you get your guidelines?

The New Testament. Do you think everyone lives a double standard, including yourself?

 

[Rita G.]

The New Testament.

. . you teach sabbath keeping and tithing?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

. . you teach sabbath keeping and tithing?

We don't keep sabbath keeping because we are not SDA. We teach that it is good to give a free-will offering to support the church, but acknowledge that tithing is an Old Testament requirement, and it was actually the Jewish taxation system to provide for the Temple and its staff.

 

[Rita G.]

We don't keep sabbath

. . so you reject the Westminster COF that commands sabbath keeping, but you're a presbyterian.
This is amazing! I've never seen such an inconsistant hypocrite in my life!

 

[1stcenturylady]

. . so you reject the Westminster COF that commands sabbath keeping, but you're a presbyterian.
This is amazing! I've never seen such an inconsistant hypocrite in my life!

Why are you not treating Oscarr the way you would want to be treated yourself? Would you really love it if someone bore false witness against you? Oscarr has the love of Christ in him to not "react" to the barrage of erroneous insults, which on this site is called "goading," and is against the rules of conduct on this site, to say nothing of Christian conduct.

I'm very proud to call Oscarr my brother.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

And since it sums up the law, for those who might not know the particulars of the law, maybe it would be loving to tell them what it is, or, in short, teach it. You would seriously not mention the law to a new believer, and in some detail? Or do you just say, love one another, and you'll figure it out?

There are several verses in the new testament that list some of those laws, that I personally would teach and make sure a new believer was aware of them. Keeping them will be tough enough, so much less complicated if they don't have to figure them out for themselves. Fortunately the writer of those verses felt it important enough to list them, or "teach" them, if you will.

Fair enough. However, I was just answering Rita's question, not promulgating a doctrine about it.

 

[Antig]

. . so you reject the Westminster COF that commands sabbath keeping, but you're a presbyterian.
This is amazing! I've never seen such an inconsistant hypocrite in my life!

Very harsh indeed!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Very harsh indeed!

Was it Martin Luther who said, "What they call heresy, is how I worship God!"
When someone curses me, as she has done, I can "reverse engineer" it and turn it into something completely opposite and rephrase it as an encouraging prophecy from God. Here goes: "Thus says the Lord, I see you as an honest, open, and genuine member of my body who worships me in spirit and in truth."
Then I can say to her, "Is that all you've got. Not a very good curse. Easy to reverse engineer! Better luck next time. With a bit of training, you can give me a much stronger curse so I can transform it into a much more uplifting and encouraging prophetic word from the Lord!"

In spite of our differences concerning tongues, I value your support and pray that the Lord will bless you in the way that He loves to do for all His saints.

 

[Antig]

Was it Martin Luther who said, "What they call heresy, is how I worship God!"
When someone curses me, as she has done, I can "reverse engineer" it and turn it into something completely opposite and rephrase it as an encouraging prophecy from God. Here goes: "Thus says the Lord, I see you as an honest, open, and genuine member of my body who worships me in spirit and in truth."
Then I can say to her, "Is that all you've got. Not a very good curse. Easy to reverse engineer! Better luck next time. With a bit of training, you can give me a much stronger curse so I can transform it into a much more uplifting and encouraging prophetic word from the Lord!"

In spite of our differences concerning tongues, I value your support and pray that the Lord will bless you in the way that He loves to do for all His saints.

Thank you.

Obviously i am more reserved about the truth of tongues. I am unable to see past what i have reffered to as the babbling. Yes, i would love to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I am very very wary of opening myself up to more evil.

Evil? Yes, because the devil is causing me issues at the moment in my life and i am scared of tongues because a big part of me feels that the devil can trick and manipulate people. I am trying to rid myself of him.

As for supporting you, i admit, you are a Godly person indeed. One can see that immediately. You do not need to be spoken to like that other post.

Blessings to you

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thank you.

Obviously i am more reserved about the truth of tongues. I am unable to see past what i have reffered to as the babbling. Yes, i would love to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I am very very wary of opening myself up to more evil.

Evil? Yes, because the devil is causing me issues at the moment in my life and i am scared of tongues because a big part of me feels that the devil can trick and manipulate people. I am trying to rid myself of him.

As for supporting you, i admit, you are a Godly person indeed. One can see that immediately. You do not need to be spoken to like that other post.

Blessings to you

I appreciate your post. I fully understand your views about tongues. When I assist a person to receive the baptism with the Spirit, the first step of faith that I employ is, "Are you very sure that this is the will of God for you?" If the person is not sure, I will not go any further with that person, because forcing a person will cause more harm than good, and you and I have seen that happen in some churches where people have gone into tongues either through pressure or not knowing what they are getting. Someone pressuring the gift of tongues is operating from a dominating spirit and any input into the life of the other person can include a spiritual "virus" in the form of a contrary spirit that will trouble the person and bring them into bondage. Every gift comes through faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.

For that reason I never assist people at the altar of a church where there is hype, loud music and people prancing around shouting through microphones. I take the person into a quiet room, pour us both a cup of coffee, bring the biscuits out and talk with them in a calm, cold blooded way about how to receive the baptism with the Spirit. This is the faith way.
Firstly I will ask them, "Are you really sure that this is the will of God for you?" If so, I take them to the next step.
I say, "Everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known to God." "Ask and you shall receive that your joy may be full." So I get them to ask for the baptism. "Lord, I now ask you to baptise me with your Holy Spirit."
Once having done that, I tell them, "If you ask the Lord for bread, would He give you a stone? If you asked for fish, would He give you a snake? If you ask for the baptism with the Spirit, will He give you a demon spirit? No, He is a good God. He will give you what you ask for. Therefore, He who asks, receives. There is no words between asking and receiving. As soon as you ask, God hands it to you. All you have to do is to accept it from His hands. Are you ready?" Then I get them to say this prayer: "Lord I now accept the baptism with the Spirit."
As soon as the person prays this, they are baptised with the Spirit. They have taken the steps of faith. It doesn't matter whether they feel anything or not. This is because the Holy Spirit is a Spirit and He enters the person's spirit, which is quite separate from the senses. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. The person now has the baptism with the Spirit by faith in the promise of God that what he has asked for, he has received. That is the principle of faith under which I work with people. No emotion, no pressure, and no hype.
All the person has to do now is to behave as if he is baptised with the Spirit. It is a done deal. The person is not pretending he has the Spirit, he has Him in reality by his faith.
Therefore he is able to use any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as appropriate. The Holy Spirit now has to flow out of him, and the way He does that is through tongues, prophecy, healing, words of knowledge and wisdom, extra faith, miracles, interpretation of tongues, discerning of spirits. The easiest to start off with is tongues and the rest will follow as the Lord wills.
I won't go into how I help people speak in tongues on this public forum because that will start a unhelpful debate. But there it is. You can go and pray about the information I have given you to see what the Lord says to you about it. And you can take as much time as you like to mull it over and come to your own conclusion.
I hope this is helpful in some way to you.

 

[Antig]

I appreciate your post. I fully understand your views about tongues. When I assist a person to receive the baptism with the Spirit, the first step of faith that I employ is, "Are you very sure that this is the will of God for you?" If the person is not sure, I will not go any further with that person, because forcing a person will cause more harm than good, and you and I have seen that happen in some churches where people have gone into tongues either through pressure or not knowing what they are getting. Someone pressuring the gift of tongues is operating from a dominating spirit and any input into the life of the other person can include a spiritual "virus" in the form of a contrary spirit that will trouble the person and bring them into bondage. Every gift comes through faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.

For that reason I never assist people at the altar of a church where there is hype, loud music and people prancing around shouting through microphones. I take the person into a quiet room, pour us both a cup of coffee, bring the biscuits out and talk with them in a calm, cold blooded way about how to receive the baptism with the Spirit. This is the faith way.
Firstly I will ask them, "Are you really sure that this is the will of God for you?" If so, I take them to the next step.
I say, "Everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known to God." "Ask and you shall receive that your joy may be full." So I get them to ask for the baptism. "Lord, I now ask you to baptise me with your Holy Spirit."
Once having done that, I tell them, "If you ask the Lord for bread, would He give you a stone? If you asked for fish, would He give you a snake? If you ask for the baptism with the Spirit, will He give you a demon spirit? No, He is a good God. He will give you what you ask for. Therefore, He who asks, receives. There is no words between asking and receiving. As soon as you ask, God hands it to you. All you have to do is to accept it from His hands. Are you ready?" Then I get them to say this prayer: "Lord I now accept the baptism with the Spirit."
As soon as the person prays this, they are baptised with the Spirit. They have taken the steps of faith. It doesn't matter whether they feel anything or not. This is because the Holy Spirit is a Spirit and He enters the person's spirit, which is quite separate from the senses. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. The person now has the baptism with the Spirit by faith in the promise of God that what he has asked for, he has received. That is the principle of faith under which I work with people. No emotion, no pressure, and no hype.
All the person has to do now is to behave as if he is baptised with the Spirit. It is a done deal. The person is not pretending he has the Spirit, he has Him in reality by his faith.
Therefore he is able to use any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as appropriate. The Holy Spirit now has to flow out of him, and the way He does that is through tongues, prophecy, healing, words of knowledge and wisdom, extra faith, miracles, interpretation of tongues, discerning of spirits. The easiest to start off with is tongues and the rest will follow as the Lord wills.
I won't go into how I help people speak in tongues on this public forum because that will start a unhelpful debate. But there it is. You can go and pray about the information I have given you to see what the Lord says to you about it. And you can take as much time as you like to mull it over and come to your own conclusion.
I hope this is helpful in some way to you.

Thank you. A very kind and informative post

 

[swordsman1]

When I assist a person to receive the baptism with the Spirit, the first step of faith that I employ is, "Are you very sure that this is the will of God for you?"

Of course it is the will of God. In fact, if they are born again believers, they already have been baptized in the Spirit. It is not some 2nd blessing. Scripture says so.

Every gift comes through faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.

That's funny, I thought every gift was given by the sovereign will of the Spirit. I must have missed the verse where it says you have to drum up enough faith before a gift is received.

The rest of your post is based on this erroneous theology I'm afraid.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Relax Pop, the evil witch didn’t curse you. It’s not even meant as an insult LOL . . But in “reality” (somewhere you need to go sometime), it’s a mild rebuke. If you’re paranoid and need to play the ‘victim’ role, an AA forum or a ‘psychiatric’ forum may help you.

1 Timothy 5:20King James Version (KJV)
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.


Jesus had no problem rebuking hypocrites now did he?



Matthew 6:2

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:5

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:16

Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 15:7

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

Matthew 16:3

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Matthew 22:18

But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Matthew 23:13

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matthew 23:14

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Matthew 23:15

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matthew 23:25

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Matthew 23:27

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Matthew 23:29

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

You were warned, now you're reported.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Of course it is the will of God. In fact, if they are born again believers, they already have been baptized in the Spirit. It is not some 2nd blessing. Scripture says so.

That's funny, I thought every gift was given by the sovereign will of the Spirit. I must have missed the verse where it says you have to drum up enough faith before a gift is received.

The rest of your post is based on this erroneous theology I'm afraid.

This is advice I gave in answer to my friend's question. You will find that my advice is in total harmony with the teaching of Scripture. Your accusation isn't, because bringing confusion to others is a lack of love and respect for those who are genuinely seeking the baptism with the Spirit, therefore it is not in harmony with 1 Corinthians 13.

 

[swordsman1]

This is advice I gave in answer to my friend's question. You will find that my advice is in total harmony with the teaching of Scripture. Your accusation isn't, because bringing confusion to others is a lack of love and respect for those who are genuinely seeking the baptism with the Spirit, therefore it is not in harmony with 1 Corinthians 13.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a subsequent experience is a debunked old-school Pentecostal doctrine, that been rejected by virtually every theologian, including Pentecostal and charismatic ones. May I suggest you read the commentaries from Pentecostalism's most respected theologian, Gordon Fee, and the respected charismatic Wayne Grudem, which will help you to understand that all believers receive the BHS at salvation. I have previously posted them here:

Grudem:
Speak in Tongues - essential :

Fee:
Speak in Tongues - essential :

I will await the verses that say gifts are only received after mustering up enough faith.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Of course it is the will of God. In fact, if they are born again believers, they already have been baptized in the Spirit. It is not some 2nd blessing. Scripture says so.

You scoff at "some 2nd blessing," but Scripture DOES say so.

We know the Holy Spirit fell on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2, so how now do you explain the same people receiving another filling in Acts 4 for signs and wonders and to preach the Word with boldness?

29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

Swordsman, I pray that you will come humbly before God and accept His Word. Humility is the key to hearing from God and understanding His Word.