Has anyone here used these "obvious" points to evangelize evolutionists about God?

[AJCServant]

Because of people like Einstein we have nukes to send us back to the stone age.

Smidlee to you believe in evil spirits ruled over by Beelzebub that Jesus taught about?

Do you think that much of mankind's senseless anger towards each other is promoted by these spirits?

So because of Beelzebub being so obviously active in the world today to influence so many people to be hateful, perverse or worse, my view is that nuclear weapons have been "allowed" by God in order to further His Holy Spirit's efforts to train up leaders in all the nations that either would walk in "His" ways, or could face the consequences as we could easily destroy ourselves and much of mankind without His supernatural interventions, which He is very capable of giving to us IF we would be worthy of those interventions.

Since God's ultimate efforts were given to us in the Lamb Jesus, the results of mankind being worthy for Him to save our cultures from Beelzebub's wiles to the uttermost is up to those who have been called to be salt and light.

I pray that will eventually be each of us who have posted into this thread. Amen.

Our God is always willing to make His blessings and presence more apparent whenever His child is willing to convert-repent again, and would stop doing what we know is wrong and that would grieve Him.

Thanks again everyone for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,…

 

[AJCServant]

The world tells us that millions of years of death and suffering preceded man, who came on the seen relatively recently.

Hi Calminian,

My studies showed me a while back that the oldest fossils of ancient man are no more than ~10,000 years old. So this falls into a very very accurate picture of the Genesis account that began after the 6th yom-day.

Also do you believe in the scripture that says a day is a thousand years (365,000 yom?) and a thousand years (365,000 yom?) is a day. Which in my present view might mean that a day to the Lord may in His view "sometimes" be (365 x 10^3)^2 days.

Some day we will not longer see through a glass darkly and our doctrines will be perfected when the perfection comes that is taught in 1Corinthians 13:8. Marana tha.

Our God is always willing to make His blessings and presence more apparent whenever His child is willing to convert-repent again, and would stop doing what we know is wrong and that would grieve Him.

Thanks again everyone for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,…

 

[Calminian]

...Also do you believe in the scripture that says a day is a thousand years (365,000 yom?) and a thousand years (365,000 yom?) is a day.

Do you? Let's test it. Was Jonah in the belly of the whale 3000 years? Did Joshua march around Jericho 7000 years? Was Christ in the grave 3000 years? More importantly, when Mosses said work 6 days, did he really mean 6000 years?

My guess is your answer to all of those is no. Yet you claim to believe that a day is a 1000 years. Why do you then only selectively apply it? But the truth is, that passage is not telling us that a day is a 1000 years to us. That passage has nothing to do with our experiences of time, but God's. It is telling us that 1000 years passes to Him fast like a day. It's not telling us to arbitrarily interpret a day as 1000 years.

Some day we will not longer see through a glass darkly and our doctrines will be perfected when the perfection comes that is taught in 1Corinthians 13:8.

Agreed. Many blessings are coming upon our glorification, but many blessings are available now too. Some scriptures are difficult to understand to be sure. Others are crystal clear, and easy to understand, and Genesis 1 is one of them. We, with our human reasoning and desire to puff ourselves up can often make them complicated, when in reality, they are simple. Men have told you the world is very old, and certain animals lived before man, but the Bible tells you plainly otherwise. You can either choose to believe it, or choose not to. If you opt for the latter, you are surely missing a blessing.

Abraham was the father of our faith, and I'm amazed at the things he was able to believe. I would failed the Isaac test to be sure. But trusting Genesis I can do.

Some good ministries to bookmark, if you want more information on this subject.

Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics
Creation Ministries International - Creation, Evolution, Apologetics and more!
Apologetics Press | Bible Contradiction |
The Institute for Creation Research
Creation Today - Creation Science, Apologetics, Evangelism

This is a blessing available now. It's not an issue of interpretation, it's a matter of trust. Don't miss it.

And here's an inspirational sermon by Ken Ham on this subject.
Is Genesis Relevant Today?

 

[Edgar44]

Hello, I'm referring to his actions which speaks plainly about his character. That quote from another thread dealt with the fact God will judge someone according to the light a person releases. I think we should point out people who doesn't (didn't in this case) even love their own children.

Now as the matter of his soul that's God's business but that doesn't mean we can't stand for what's right.

I'm smart enough to take care of my own family.
Because of people like Einstein we have nukes to send us back to the stone age.

Sorry, can't resist.

You really are a 'Moron'. Einstein tried to prevent the bomb! Yes he wrote a letter to the president warning of the possibility that the Nazis could build the atomic bomb, he was afraid of them, and what they could do to his people and to the rest of the world, but Einstein refused to join the 'Manhatten project', and did his best to convince others not to do the research.

And 'so what' his family life wasn't the greatest, you want to place the sickness of divorce all on to Albert Einstien's shoulders?

The anti-Christ? wow!

 

[AJCServant]

[+: NOTE SEE >-- Genesis 2:8 AND ALSO as mentioned in 2Kings 10:36, 1Chronicles 29:27, and 2Peter 3:8, to the Lord a "yom" day (W/ STRONG'S HEBREW #3117 >HYPERLINK< ) IS RARELY BUT SOMETIMES much much longer than a 24 hour day. Especially before the fourth day when our Eternal Creator then caused our earth's sun and moon to form, that then “began” to eventually establish our present 24 hour day whenever the earth's rotation ultimately became fixed with a 24 hour rotation period as taught in Genesis 1:14.]

So the truth behind an old earth creation would show the eternal vision and immeasurable agape-love our eternal Creator has shown for modern man in this pivotal generation, for Him to take the almost infinite efforts to radically change the sea-life plankton in each new age - simply in order that our pivotal generation might safely drill for oil and gas by using these index fossils to identify in advance the locations of dangerous high pressure oil and gas zones while a well was being drilled.

It would also show the almost infinite efforts of Christ Jesus who scripture says was tasked with planting and pruning into the earth until it has been built-up the way we see it today.

Whereby many ages ago Jesus and His father designed and created our world wherein a few billion souls could eventually become created and then trained to become "like the angels" and eventually "formed into the image of Jesus Christ". [See Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25 & Luke 20:36 and also Romans 8:29 & 2Corinthians 3:18.]

This vision for our present pivotal generation took an immense amount of effort that was expended by Jesus and the entire Heavenly Host of eternal angels, and IMHO anyone who would say that these immense efforts were not expended in our behalf would be slandering Jesus and our Creator's immense sacrifices for our well being from ages past and up until the present day.

<><> <><

IMHO alongside the cross of Jesus as taught via the New Testament in John 12:32 there are no more-powerful "tools" that might help one to work alongside the Holy Spirit to sway an agnostic biological scientist to give their all in following after Jesus with "all" their heart.

We are all in training to be a little more like the good-shepherd Jesus every day, one day and one step at a time.
<><
<><>

Hi all,

Has anyone else ever taken time to pray while researching the scriptures mentioned in the first paragraph of the excerpt above.

My view is that once Beelzebub's blinders are removed from our eyes and we will see the whole truth about our Creator's efforts in our behalf from eternity past and His vision for us all into eternity future in all of its "obvious" glory on that day of Pentecost for each of us, we will no longer see through a glass darkly and our doctrines will then become perfected when the perfection comes that is taught in 1Corinthians 13:8. Marana tha.

Our God is always willing to make His blessings and presence more apparent whenever His child is willing to convert-repent again, and would stop doing what we know is wrong and that would grieve Him.

Thanks again everyone for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,…

Originally Posted by AJCServant
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
. . .
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[sfs]

Can anyone here discount my views that NOT seeing "innumerable" transitionals between today's species should be a good "proof" for Intelligent- Design?

Sure. Intelligent Design by itself predicts absolutely nothing about the presence or absence of transitional species. For example, Michael Behe, a prominent ID scientist, accepts common ancestry for all life and presumably accepts the existence of transitional species. Any variety of ID that denies most evolution (e.g. evolution of mammals, or evolution of sea mammals) is clearly contradicted by the many transitional fossils we have.

Also for me I find phenomenal Intelligent- Design when I eventually saw that the DNA code is so rigid that it has never allowed any animal species we have on the earth today to interbreed to form a transitional species that could also reproduce.

Why would this be an argument for ID, when it unsurprising under evolution as well? Also, does the fact that this kind of speciation is routine in plants count as evidence against ID?

Yea, we both agree with the weak evidence within the fossil record for common ancestry.

On the contrary, I think the fossil evidence for common ancestry is quite strong. My point is just that it's weaker than the evidence from biogeography, and much weaker than the evidence from genetics. There's a reason that creationists routinely either misstate genetic data or ignore it entirely.

 

[AJCServant]

Sure. Intelligent Design by itself predicts absolutely nothing about the presence or absence of transitional species.

For example, Michael Behe, a prominent ID scientist, accepts common ancestry for all life and ?presumably? accepts the existence of transitional species.

Hi all,

Let me say that I do not understand the logic in the first sentence since in my view without any transitional species ID is proven.

The proof for me at one time in my past seekings for the-truth, was that there are no transitionals between the current species that we have today. Unless, in my view, some have made a leap of faith to conclude that an ape is the closest transitional between man and lower life. In my view that requires a tremendous leap of faith that I do not have. Which is also voiced via Darwin's dilemas of not seeing an innumerable number of transitionals IF evolution could have ever occurred between "all" the existing species from an amoeba up to man.

IF YI -- My view is that all the present species of animals and plankton were "seeded" into the earth after the last extinction event, similar to how Noah seeded his area of the world after his flood event, except Adam came from a much much bigger Ark mentioned in Revelation 21, which is New Jerusalem the City Foursquare 12000 stadia on edge, and He was sent here to be God's primary ambassador-missionary to reconcile a fallen world back to God after it had continually become more and more ruthlessly ruled over by Beelzebub.

Unlike an ape being the closest transitional between man and lower life forms, my present view requires no faith for me whatsoever, since it is so plain for me to perceive this nowadays, especially after I had subsequently learned that the tallest pyramid in the world is exactly to less than half a foot 1/10,000 of the greek stadia on edge as what is mentioned in Revelation 21.

Someday seeing through a glass darkly will no longer occur for us "all" whenever 1Corinthians 13:8 is fulfilled after Jesus shows His eternal glory through the clouds, and the truth would no longer be hidden in unrighteousness.

So again, my view is that once Beelzebub's blinders are removed from our eyes and we will see the whole truth about our Creator's efforts in our behalf from eternity past and His vision for us all into eternity future in all of its "obvious" glory on that day of Pentecost for each of us, we will not longer see through a glass darkly and our doctrines will then become perfected when the perfection comes that is taught in 1Corinthians 13:8. Marana tha.

Our God is always willing to make His blessings and presence more apparent whenever His child is willing to convert-repent again, and would stop doing what we know is wrong and that would grieve Him.

Thanks again everyone for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,…

 

[AJCServant]

<> <><><

Hi all,

Has Any young earth creationists taken any time to pray about and research the scriptures mentioned in the first sentence excerpted using the above hyperlink?

Just a quick survey for me and perhaps others to understand the logic of how a young earth creationist may think about how these scriptures define a day-yom in context.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

 

[Smidlee]

And 'so what' his family life wasn't the greatest, you want to place the sickness of divorce all on to Albert Einstien's shoulders?

The anti-Christ? wow!

If he was a minster everyone would be quick to point out his views on religion, God, and morals are vanity. It like an nature article wrote science has become a religion and scientists are often treated as high priest. Boy did the posters got upset with him connecting science with religion.


While I agree Einstein wasn't directly involved with the 'Manhatten project' yet his knowledge lead to it.
You tried to use Einstein as a example of religion and science in harmony but his science was his religion, his god. (I think the unibomber was smart yet a moron also.)


I wasn't referring Einstein as anti-Christ but only the fact the anti-Christ will probably be extremely smart yet has a heart of stone.

 

[sfs]

Hi all,

Let me say that I do not understand the logic in the first sentence since in my view without any transitional species ID is proven.

The logic is simple: I'm disagreeing with your view. I think you're wrong. Some versions of ID would be supported (not proven) by a complete absence of transitional species, while others would not, since some versions include common ancestry. Presumably you mean that your version of ID would be supported.

More to the point, we're talking about what would happen if there were no transitional species. But that's not the real world. In the real world, we have lots and lots of transitional species, and that most certainly is evidence for common ancestry, at least for those domains of life that contain the transitionals.

The proof for me at one time in my past seekings for the-truth, was that there are no transitionals between the current species that we have today.

There are plenty of cases where we have transitional forms between contemporary species. We've got species that are in the process of splitting into two (e.g. the M and S forms of Anapholes gambiae mosquitoes); species that form a ring, in which each local population can breed with its neighbors, but the species at the ends cannot (e.g. Ensatina salamanders); species that are clearly distinct but that can still produce hybrid offspring (lots of examples -- lions and tigers, say).

 

[AJCServant]

There are plenty of cases where we have transitional forms between contemporary species. We've got species that are in the process of splitting into two (e.g. the M and S forms of Anapholes gambiae mosquitoes); species that form a ring, in which each local population can breed with its neighbors, but the species at the ends cannot (e.g. Ensatina salamanders); species that are clearly distinct but that can still produce hybrid offspring (lots of examples -- lions and tigers, say).

Hi sfs and all,

Knowing that any rare interbreeding of very "similar" species like lions and tigers or horses and donkeys eventually become sterile so have continually become extinct in our era, has anyone reading this post ever recognized any transitionals between the larger species of life we see today that would be larger than the interesting Ensatina salamanders mentioned above?

Thanks again everyone for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,…

 

[sfs]

Knowing that any rare interbreeding of very "similar" species like lions and tigers or horses and donkeys eventually become sterile so have continually become extinct in our era, has anyone reading this post ever recognized any transitionals between the larger species of life we see today that would be larger than the interesting Ensatina salamanders mentioned above?

If you saw large changes occurring (between very different species), then that would be evidence against Darwinian evolution being responsible. Darwinian evolution occurs by the gradual accumulation of many small changes. We can see the small changes happening in real time, and we can see the record of the accumulated changes in fossils, in the similarities between quite different living animals and, most clearly, in comparative genetics.

Mind you, large changes in a single generation do occur -- just not in animals. Plants will hybridize between quite different species, merge their genomes and produce something very different from either parent species. The new plant can then go on to become a successful species of its own. It's a kind of evolution, but it really isn't Darwinian.

 

[AJCServant]

If you saw large changes occurring (between very different species), then that would be evidence against Darwinian evolution being responsible.

. . .

Mind you, large changes in a single generation do occur -- just not in animals.

<><> <><

Hi all and sfs,

I think in your first sentence you are very close to understanding the obviousness of my view that the great leap between an ape and a human "then that would be evidence against Darwinian evolution being responsible" as you so aptly stated; And I would also agree with Darwin's-dilemma that IF there were innumerable transitionals then that would be evidence in favor of our Creator "using" Darwinian evolution for us to "evolve" before He first gave to His evolved human His eternal Spirit a few thousand years ago.

I truly believe that our Shekhinah God first created the eternal angels that built the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21 many millions of years ago in eternity past, and so to seed Adam and Eve and all animal life into the earth full grown was nothing for Him to then accomplish with the help of angels who were being directed to watch over our growth and development by Jesus the Lord, who is always in communion and listening to His Father. The tragedies within our world has always been due to Beelzebub who wishes to discourage our Shekhinah Creator God to give up on His efforts and to abandon us to our world without ever having any hope of access to Heaven and eternal-life in communion with our Creator.

My view of the scriptures is that the next Last Days Pentecost will reveal the simplicity of what has always been our own choices, and concerning the wars we have always been fighting between good and evil within the spiritual realm for several thousand years now. And God's Spirit will give many "called" Saints-in-training an accurate understanding of how Jesus' will reveal His glory through the clouds in order to proclaim the "years of Jubilee" and "the acdeptable year of the Lord" in such an obvious way, that I am now doing what I can to prepare hearts and souls for that day. So that any tribulations that Beelzebub would try to seduce others to cause via slanderous doctrines of men would be minimized. I pray that you and everyone that is reading my threads would eventually join me in this goal.

Ultimately the reason the whole-truth has always been important for me to know and to then teach others as I have done throughout my many threads, is that I and all of us make everyday choices based upon our view of how "close" we feel God is to us to speak to us and to help us make perfect-choices or not; And ultimately what should be the "best" choices for us each to make every day, whenever we are continually confronted with discouragements with our flesh and others, political-peer-pressures to capitulate to another's choices, and all the other daily battles with the much more obvious evils in our world today. I see too many giving up on the discouragements from life's trials and ultimately becoming suicidal with how they treat the temples our God has given them for His Holy Spirit to be continually present, especially after one is "born-again" and begins the narrow walk of Holiness towards God and "all" others.

Someday seeing through a glass darkly will no longer occur for us "all" whenever 1Corinthians 13:8 is fulfilled after Jesus shows His eternal glory through the clouds, and the truth would no longer be hidden in unrighteousness.

So again, my view is that once Beelzebub's blinders are removed from our eyes and we will see the whole truth about our Creator's efforts in our behalf from eternity past and His vision for us all into eternity future in all of its "obvious" glory on that day of Pentecost for each of us, then we will no longer see through a glass darkly and our doctrines will then become perfected when the perfection comes that is taught in 1Corinthians 13:8. Marana tha.

Albeit even now our Shekhinah God is always willing to make His blessings and presence more apparent whenever His child is willing to convert-repent again, and would stop doing what we know is wrong and that would grieve Him.

Thanks again everyone for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,&#8230;

 

[sfs]

I think in your first sentence you are very close to understanding the obviousness of my view that the great leap between an ape and a human "then that would be evidence against Darwinian evolution being responsible" as you so aptly stated; And I would also agree with Darwin's-dilemma that IF there were innumerable transitionals then that would be evidence in favor of our Creator "using" Darwinian evolution for us to "evolve" before He first gave to His evolved human His eternal Spirit a few thousand years ago.

What great leap forward? Human ancestors have increased in brain capacity steadily over millions of years. Our ancestors were making stone tools more than a million years ago, controlled fire hundreds of thousands of years ago, were expressing themselves artistically 100,000 years ago and were creating magnificent works of art tens of thousands of years ago. Where do you put the great leap?

 

[AJCServant]

What great leap forward? . . . Where do you put the great leap?

Hi all and sfs,

I think we are both at an impasse concerning whether we can understand the logic of each others faith.

At one time I had faith in Darwinian evolution myself since that made more sense to me at that time.

But now I have the "faith" that ages ago my Creator God had Jesus' City Foursquare
[*] built for us-all by the angels. And so I no longer have the faith to believe that our Creator God, i.e. the Holy Spirit, took millenia and ages of time and trouble to manipulate the evolution of humans into the earth. My faith is that God just placed Adam and Eve in the earth full grown after they had been created (i.e. born) in Heaven. [*: (i.e. the super huge New Jerusalem of Revelation 21)]

Thanks again for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,&#8230;

 

[sfs]

I think we are both at an impasse concerning whether we can understand the logic of each others faith.

I haven't said anything about either my faith or your faith. I'm addressing only the scientific arguments you have made against evolutionary biology. If you want to advance theological arguments against evolution, have at it -- believe whatever you want, and I won't say a thing. But if you make scientific arguments, you should be able to back them up scientifically.

 

[AJCServant]

The logic is simple: I'm disagreeing with your view. I think you're wrong.

Hi all and sfs,

My logic is simple - I think - and perhaps is for some others that would someday read this post.

If all species could effectively interbreed in a vets lab with major help, then this would prove ID was necessary to cause the "significant" evolutionary jump from an ape to a human because there are no innumerable intermediaries between these two. But IF the DNA change had ever occurred naturally after many many attempts without having ID involved, then that would at least have to happen twice for a man and woman to be born, and in the last few ages they would have to be born close enough to each others locality to then make their own family, OR we should see innumerable intermediaries existing today between all the species and we do not.

So my logic is that the first male and female animals were all created (i.e. born) in one of the many Heaven's above us all as the accounts of scripture teaches, and at least one male and female of each species were then seeded into the earth, perhaps via the Ark that is called New Jerusalem, which is taught to be 1500 miles on edge and which to less than half a foot is "exactly" 10,000 times bigger than the Pyramid of Giza, and is taught to have walls as clear as crystal that are the rose, amber and the greenish tints of our modern day sunglasses. This City is taught about in Revelation 21.

Nowadays for me the prophetic accounts written into our Modern Bible is the most logical in my opinion. Also, nowadays, I can see this shift in my own dogmatic beliefs has primarily occurred because I have seen many supernatural miracles that defy scientific explanations that have caused me to no longer believe what I used to believe about Darwinian evolution. But as you can see I have never been an expert on evolution as others here might be. But yet because the proofs of the supernatural spiritual realm truly occurred for me to see everything I mentioned on my other threads, these proofs were enough to get my attention and to force me to change my way of thinking.

So my new way of thinking is what I am now promoting to others, primarily because in my view Darwinian evolution "slanders" the eternal nature and character and phenomenal efforts of the Creator God that we "all" need to eventually learn to discern via our prayers and to obey the wisdom that our prayers would promote. So we might work in-concert with the Heavenly Host of eternal beings that I have discerned have for ages now been personally intimately involved in working and warring towards "binding" and "chaining" up and thereby eliminating all the evils in the spiritual realm that is "seducing" so many folks to be unhappily self destructive or perverse or worse; and to kill, steal and destroy each other and then themselves.

Thanks again sfs for your posts and prayers, I think I and others are learning from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,&#8230;

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PS - Any further wholesome, strengthening or insightful comments anyone?[/FONT]

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[Papias]

AJCServant wrote:

we should see innumerable intermediaries existing today between all the species and we do not.

Um, any family tree doesn't work that way. We usually only have the end branches alive. For instance, think of your family tree. You know you are related to your 5th cousin. Yet, there is not an unbroken string of the intermediates, because they are mostly dead. Saying that you can't have both descended from your great great great grandparent because your great great grandparents (the intermediate forms) aren't alive today (which is exactly your argument) is simply showing that you don't understand family trees.

Also as sfs pointed out - through good luck, we do see nearly what you want in ring species (which exist in may different animals, including birds). That's because though the intermediate forms are dead, their local descendants are very similar.

But IF the DNA change had ever occurred naturally after many many attempts without having ID involved, then that would at least have to happen twice for a man and woman to be born, and in the last few ages they would have to be born close enough to each others locality to then make their own family,

Again, that's not what common descent is proposing anyway. Populations evolve, not individuals.

Think of this situation. You know, as do I, that the Italian language evolved through small changes from Latin - starting off like a dialect, and slowly changing over time. There never was a giant leap from one language to another, just as there never is a giant leap from one animal species to another. Making your argument above is the same as saying "Italian could not have evolved from Latin, because when the first person started speaking Italian, he would have had no one to talk to!".

Make sense?

in Christ-

Papias

 

[AJCServant]

. . .

Make sense?

in Christ-

Papias

Hi all and Papias,


I would have to answer yes and no and not-really to your question.

I see that only for folks like me who have not studied Darwinian evolution as much as others have - does the lack of tansitionals between the species that we can "see" today make obvious sense.

At any rate I was surprised when I found the website that I posted in the OP that promotes an identical view as what I have had for many years now.

Then when I finally re-read Revelation 21 a few seasons ago, and I saw that if someone like me could conceptualize such a large-planet-place being built over many millions of years of efforts as being possible and even likely, then that solidified my views.

So "now" I can not comprehend why anyone would think otherwise if they would thoughtfully consider my present views, but I know that most American's may yet think otherwise even after some considerations.

So I am always seeking to "understand" the evidence better and another's point of view and their frame of reference and logic.

In conclusion, because ID has become so obvious to me, I have now realized that if I would ever teach that Darwinian evolution could have occurred without ID then that would be slanderous to the Creator.

So I will never promote any form of evolution in any way, since I have seen that so many good folks need "hope" for their daily battles with their tough-character-building choices, and need to believe in their after-life being in a place called Heaven, especially if they might ever be in vocations where they may be called upon to prematurely lay down their life for others.

So my hope is that we all would be taught to live for today to the uttermost, and to not give-in and give-up on any of our trials in life.

Does my present point of view make sense to anyone reading this post?

Or on difficult subjects of faith like this one, is a point of view to forever be one individuals point of view that rarely changes anothers viewpoint?

Thanks Papias for your posts and prayers, I think I and others have learned a little from this thread.

God Bless.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Jesus Christ
AJCServant

2 Timothy 2:15 - - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,&#8230;


Originally Posted by AJCServant

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PS - Any further wholesome, strengthening or insightful comments anyone?[/FONT]

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[Calminian]

Hi all. Anyone notice that the starting points of AJCServant's arguments are not from Scripture?

He's not alone obviously, as this is really an epidemic in the modern church. There's a war brewing against the knowledge of God. We keep trying to find answers via our own reasoning abilities, and then try to adapt Scripture to the brilliant ideas we've come up with. There's a constant temptation to take the Bible out of the equation, at least temporarily, while we try to figure out where we can fit it back in. Paul urged us to do just the opposite.

2Cor. 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.​

Our conclusions are only as good as our premises. This is true for the most brilliant men on earth. They can have impeccable deductive skills and yet if their starting points are off, so will be their conclusions.

Now no one was there at the beginning&#8212;certainly AJCServant wasn't. Only God where there. Yet instead of looking to Genesis for answers, he starts with modern naturalistic ideas about deep time and then attempts to make God's word fit as well as possible. He doesn't like evolution, but has no problem with the foundation of evolution which is deep time. (I see some TE's though are taking him to task, so he may change on this soon, as I've seen many day-agers do).

To show a contrast in this approach, take a look at Paul's visit to Mars Hill. He confronted the Greeks who were quite the philosophers themselves. They literally worshipped reasoning. Where did Paul start? With history? The Greeks had huge gaps in their history. They had lost knowledge of their ancestors going back to Japheth and Javan, and had only retained glimpses of the past through their mythologies. Paul filed in those gaps with the history of Genesis.

Paul understood that the Greeks would not understand Christ, without first understanding why Christ came. He knew the foundation of the Cross, was the Creation, Fall and Curse. This is why I scratch my head when I see guys like AJCServant work so hard to compromise the Genesis account. With good intentions, he's attacking the foundation of his own message. I can only marvel as I see the trend in the modern church.