Hard

[mukk_in]

John 6:60 (NIV)​

​

This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?​

It's always hard for a man to overcome mental barriers to enter the kingdom of God. In the initial stages, he may have to overcome his prejudice that there is no divine creator or a sovereign God. Should he come to Christ by the grace of God, he may find it hard to shed his old life and follow Christ's way of holiness.

In his mid-Christian life, he may find it hard to unlearn some of the theology he accepted to be true. He may have been taught that Christ is divine but doubts that the Lord violated His natural laws like gravity when He walked on water or ascended into heaven. It'll then be hard for him to believe that Christ performed those miracles.

In the last stages of his life, he may find it hard to defeat the skepticism and doubt that begins to creep into his mind.

In the above verse, many of the disciples following Christ hit a roadblock when Christ commanded they had to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood to remain in Him (John 6:56). They found it hard to accept such barbaric and fake teaching.

A saint will face many such mental or spiritual blocks when they have to decide to either accept the words of Christ literally or write them off as just another allegory. Those that swallow those hard teachings go on to glory, while those who turn away because of the vulgarity of it fall out.

 

[timothyu]

Considering the whole concept is to stop thinking of self alone and focus on others. Care for them as you would have them care for you, rather than seeking personal gain at someone's personal expense (hence the commandments about theft or coveting, the very things our world system is based upon).

 

[mukk_in]

Yes. Not sure how what you just said relates to the post, but yes, that's what discipleship is about. Discipleship is a one-on-one training session with Christ. So, yes, there is an individual focus on that. The post is about complete obedience to Christ without reservations or holding back. If one did that, love for Christ and others is a natural outcome. If one doesn't do that, then apostasy, bitterness, and unforgiveness follow. There may be some tolerance and sympathy demonstrated even by atheists and agnostics, but such empathy always fails under pressure. There is no substitute for the true, holy, agape love of God, which only comes from a true disciple totally yielded to Christ.

 

[timothyu]

Not sure how what you just said relates to the post,

Because to emulate Jesus one must put the will of God ahead of our own, which is to love/care for all as we would want done for ourselves. An easy task but leads to great difficulty in fitting into a world that runs on the concept of self interest. We aren't really expected to do anything else as Jesus took care of the sacrifice part of things. We are left with simply sowing the seed of the concept of the counter-culture of the Kingdom and how it remedies the backwards way the world we have made in our own image operates.

 

[timothyu]

And no, Jesus did not say 'hey, come back', nor try to get them back at all.

There those of the world and those of the Kingdom.

 

[mukk_in]

Without giving authenticity to the rest of your thinking, as it may be right or not, I am not checking it right now...
but this happened to Jesus - "those hard teachings" of Jesus caused most of His Own disciples to leave Him, to walk away from Him, right there in the Gospels.

And no, Jesus did not say 'hey, come back', nor try to get them back at all.

Yes. That's what I said. And I'm not particularly worried about your authenticity check. Nor would I use frivolous words such as "heck" on a Christian forum. I worry more about what the Holy Spirit says. Thanks anyway.

 

[mukk_in]

Because to emulate Jesus one must put the will of God ahead of our own, which is to love/care for all as we would want done for ourselves. An easy task but leads to great difficulty in fitting into a world that runs on the concept of self interest. We aren't really expected to do anything else as Jesus took care of the sacrifice part of things. We are left with simply sowing the seed of the concept of the counter-culture of the Kingdom and how it remedies the backwards way the world we have made in our own image operates.

Still not sure. Complete obedience to Christ requires self-denial, which is sacrificing self-interest. So a properly trained disciple is Christ-seeking and not self-seeking. Your argument doesn't make sense as self-denial (Matthew 16:24-26) is a prerequisite for discipleship. There can be no discipleship for a self-loving narcissist. Your argument that discipleship doesn't focus on self-denial is incorrect. This thread is about stumbling blocks to total surrender to Christ. I have to leave it at that

 

[mukk_in]

This doesn't make sense. > "heck"?
Besides , why not? You just posted it, no one else did.
And "worry" .... that's not obedient. Right ?

All to clarify, simplify, right away instead of letting it sit til later....

Sorry, misread your post. You said, "hey, come back." My apologies. Besides, I wouldn't use " hey" informally either. Why not? So, is that explanation relevant to this post? I don't think so. I said not worried. Looks like you misread too. So it's obedient. If you worry, then that's disobedience to Christ's command. I'll have to leave it there.

 

[timothyu]

Your argument that discipleship doesn't focus on self-denial is incorrect.

How is saying we must put the will of God ahead of our own not saying that?

 

[timothyu]

or was discipleship to some other system ?

What other system did you have in mind?

 

[The Righterzpen]

This thread is about stumbling blocks to total surrender to Christ. I have to leave it at that

Well there's a lot of hard stuff we may only "get" in part and stuff we may not "get" at all.

In the end; it's either all true or none of it matters. (Despite we may not understand what truth some random verse is trying to convey.)

It is what it is and on the other side of eternity all the unanswered questions will either be answered or they won't matter any more.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Be as a sheep following Master Shepherd Jesus at once, always, and forever. He "gets" everything, and is perfect in Shepherding His Flock.

Do sheep have to understand much really ? Leave the gobblygook to the experts or to others who won't want anything to do with you/us. We hear Jesus' Voice, and Follow. Daily. Always. Learn His Voice by Listening to Him, Listen For Him, ASK HIM.

A zillion questions all evaporate when sitting on Jesus lap, when resting in Him, when abiding in Him. All the questions we can roll over onto Him, or simply also usually not even pick them up - just let them be.

Good advise; but admittedly, I got a lot of questions for Jesus. Just because there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that actually helps us understand Him better!

 

[The Righterzpen]

So ask Him. Read His Word for a few hours every day. Talk to The Author of our Faith, and Talk to Father Eternal One.
Men will mislead you. Daily. Even or especially on the internet/ forum/ anonymous.
Jesus will not mislead you.

Oh believe me. I do a lot of reading, studying "Bible mining" and pondering.