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Happy Holidays

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by ThatRobGuy, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. mathclub

    mathclub Newbie

    597
    +6
    Atheist
    xmas doesn't have anything to do with religion anymore. it's just a holiday where kids gets presents and you get time off work to spend time with your family.

    merry xmas everyone!!
     
  2. Kalevalatar

    Kalevalatar Veteran

    +754
    Christian
    Private
    Languages, obviously, shape the way we think and see our world. Over here, we are sort of lucky to skirt the whole controversy of "Christmas" with our native words joulu (Finnish) and jul (Swedish) -- i.e. "yule" -- without anyone getting offended by the taking of our Lord's name in vain or feeling left out. We don't have our own native version of the "happy holidays" and an attempt to construct one would be seen as silly americanism.

    When we specifically want to stress the Christian aspect of "yule," it is common to wish blessed/good Advent, which is what I do. Advent is theologically more sound than "Christmas", which has come to represent the commercialised side of the season: presents and decorations. Perhaps our North American brothers and sisters in Christ should adopt a similar approach and focus on observing Advent rather than the hotly contested Christmas/holidays whatever?
     
  3. MattRose

    MattRose Guest

    +0
    Silly americanism? I thought that when Europeans use the term "americanism", they mean "improvement".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2011
  4. Paradoxum

    Paradoxum Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!

    +618
    Humanist
    Private
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    I don't necessarily believe in 'my' God, but that doesn't mean I suddenly want to reject tradition. People have the right to say whatever they want of course.

    My argument would be that if I moved to another country I would expect the majorities culture to be emphasised. If I lived in an Islamic country, Israel, or anywhere in Asia I wouldn't expect the word Christmas to be used, and the use of the words 'Happy Holidays' to be better than the expected nothing. But I live in Europe, which has a Christian tradition. If I were to convert to Islam I wouldn't suddenly expect everyone to pay any attention to my festivals.

    Well they shouldn't feel the duty to act like that. Calling it 'Happy Holidays' wont change that expectation.

    If your not Christian what is the problem with calling it Christmas? If you live in a country with a Christian tradition and majority Christian population then what you celebrate is secular Christmas.

    Don't celebrate Christmas then and people shouldn't tell you you should.

    By the way I know this is a particularly biased and perhaps limited view of mine.
     
  5. David Brider

    David Brider Liberal fundamentalist progressive evangelical.

    +669
    Methodist
    Married
    UK-Greens
    I can never quite understand the whole thing of equating "holiday" with Christmas". It seems a particularly American thing. For me, a holiday is some time, normally a week or two, spent off work and away from home, up in the Lake District or down in Swanage, for example. I wouldn't expect anyone to wish me "happy holidays" in those instances, and I wouldn't understand someone wishing me "happy holidays" at Christmas - sure, it falls in the middle of a period of time off work, sometimes stretching from Christmas Eve through to shortly after New Year's Day, but it just seems like a weird greeting.

    At Christmas, I think - certainly in the west, and whatever one's personal beliefs - it's realistic to accept that the festival being celebrated on December 25th is primarily a secularised version of a Christian festival, which was in turn decided to be held on the date of an existing Pagan festival. To many Christians, it's important to celebrate their Saviour's birth. Many non-Christians are happy to celebrate the day as well, if not the Christian meaning of it. Specifically wishing someone "happy Christmas" at Christmas seems to be perfectly reasonable, although the increasing tendency of it to penetrate shops anything up to a couple of months in advance of the actual festival (and of people to begin wishing people "happy Christmas" some way in advance of the festival as well; the weirdest I had was someone in mid-November at a public event saying to the audience, "merry Christmas, and a happy New Year!!!") is rather annoying, as I think that rather dilutes the uniqueness of Christmas.

    I shall get off my soapbox now. But anyway, no, I don't find "happy holidays" threatening so much as odd.

    David.
     
  6. The Nihilist

    The Nihilist Contributor

    +440
    Atheist
    Yeah, it's an American thing. I'd probably call what you're describing a vacation. Holidays are printed on calendars and some percentage of people get the day off. Hope that clears things up a bit.
     
  7. yasic

    yasic Part time poster, Full time lurker

    +197
    Atheist
    Yeah, to me a Holiday is a time period that one partakes in rituals designed for leisure and relaxation and celebration of a certain time period. So Christmas, Thanks Giving, Halloween are 'true holidays'

    Events like MLKJ Birthday, Labor day, and the like are only Holidays when talking about the calendar but not holidays when discussing them in any other context.
     
  8. rsduncan

    rsduncan Veteran

    +196
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    I used to be very protective about Christmas until I got more into the history of it. There is too much of an intermingling of paganism, specifically Saturnalia, with this "holiday". This, plus the possibility that the Savior may actually have been born around Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles, September/October) makes the whole matter irrelevant to me in any case.

    To me, December 25 is just another day. Atheists and secularists are welcome to "desecrate" it all they want...
     
  9. mdancin4theLord

    mdancin4theLord Well-Known Member

    923
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    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican

    We have celebrated Christmas for how many years in America? We were able to put the nativity scene in places now we are forbidden. We have had to take down the ten commandments...and in our schools in some places children are forbidden to bring anything red and green or anything with a CHRISTMAS symbol on them to school. Kids can't sing traditional Christmas Carols......or even acknowledge for them that Jesus is the reason for the season.
    So why is all this happening....and what harm do Christians do to people who don't share the faith? Are so they so disgusted by the cross that they become sick? So because a minority of the population want God, Christianity out of the holiday season....we have to do it their way?

    If you look back at our Founders and in earlier days.......none of this was prohibited. They celebrated Christmas with Christ in it.

    I do not have any problem with someone wishing or saying Happy Holidays. This is a special time of year for a lot of people, also a sad time as well. If someone says Happy Holidays to me......I return with and a Merry Christmas to you. They are stating their beliefs and I am stating mine.
     
  10. mdancin4theLord

    mdancin4theLord Well-Known Member

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    I can see what your saying. A Holiday is a time one could get away and vacation. I think it is used at Christmas because of a lack of anything else someone who does not identify with Christ would say.

    Christmas..........contains Christ......so no one who accepted Christ who is acknowledging His birthday would want to say it. In fact I would suspect some atheists would like that term banned as well..........CHRISTMAS.

    Christmas is a time for Christians to celebrate their Saviors birthday. It would not matter to me what day we did this. When unbelievers want to tie the Christmas meaning into some pagan worship of traditions....they fail to see the true meaning of the Christmas holiday. It is not about the tree.....or the ornaments or the eggnog or the presents under the tree. It is about the birth of the Christ child....Jesus. Christians might do those things and they might even take center stage above Christ which is wrong....but the true meaning is the birthday.
     
  11. The Nihilist

    The Nihilist Contributor

    +440
    Atheist
    Not being permitted to oppress others does not constitute a persecution
    This is absolutely false. This is all protected by the first amendment.
    Of course they can. They school just can't make them.
    False. Against, first amendment

    This is happening because this is a free country, rather than a theocracy.

    Before the passing of the 14th amendment, the first amendment didn't apply to states.
    No one who is wishing you a happy holiday is stating a belief. That person is trying to be polite and hoping you have a nice time without assuming you share their beliefs. As long as atheists aren't saying to you, "there's no god and everything dies," you could at least be polite and wish that they too have a happy holiday
     
  12. Dylan Michael

    Dylan Michael Senior Veteran

    +179
    Catholic
    Private
    US-Others
    I've never understood the big deal. Christmas is a holiday after all.
     
  13. The Nihilist

    The Nihilist Contributor

    +440
    Atheist
    [​IMG]
     
  14. mdancin4theLord

    mdancin4theLord Well-Known Member

    923
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    And I have the right to say Merry Christmas because for me its what the season is all about.

    Why do you assume that I dont wish them good tidings?......There ya go another holdiday phrase.

    And of course I would always be polite. As I said.....I have a few agnostics in my own family. But they love me......so they take my Christmas spirit with good faith and respect.
     
  15. The Nihilist

    The Nihilist Contributor

    +440
    Atheist
    So, the agnostics love you enough to tolerate your beliefs. Why don't you love them enough to tolerate theirs?
    But no one is saying you don't have a right to be a christian or say merry christmas or whatever. You have the right to say or think or be almost anything. Shoot, in the US, you can even be a Nazi. What we are saying is that there are a lot of people who aren't christian, and if you don't want to be a jerk to them, then wishing them a nice time on their own terms would be a good way to do that.
     
  16. ke1985

    ke1985 Senior Member

    702
    +21
    Non-Denom
    Married
    i miss the good ol "merry christmas"
     
  17. ivebeenshown

    ivebeenshown Expert invisible poster and thread killer

    +544
    Catholic
    Married
    I don't mind 'Happy Holidays'...
     
  18. The Paul

    The Paul Newbie

    343
    +13
    Atheist
    That sounds about right.

    So far as I can tell, the phrase "Happy Holidays" is older than the idea of a "war on Christmas." Also, I haven't heard "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year." in quite some time. I think "Happy holidays," replaced it.

    ...but this thread is illustrative of why people are threatened by "happy holidays." The responses are along the lines of "Why aren't you letting me celebrate Christmas? Why are you oppressing my religion?"

    "Happy holidays," is strongly associated with the war on Christmas. People associated it with not being allowed to say "merry Christmas." But of course the war on Christmas is a fabrication.

    People are threatened by "happy holidays," because they have bought in to the propaganda that the "secularists" are trying to take their religion away from them. They're threatened by it because they've been trained to be.
     
  19. yasic

    yasic Part time poster, Full time lurker

    +197
    Atheist
    Emphasis mine

    The Nihilist addressed the rest of your post quite nicely so let me address this particular part.

    Not true, in Boston, celebrating Christmas was outlawed between 1659 to 1681. So by forcing others to say 'Merry Christmas' you are going directly against the wishes of our earliest founders.
     
  20. mdancin4theLord

    mdancin4theLord Well-Known Member

    923
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    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican

    I do love them and how am I not tolerating them?

    Let me ask you this.....
    What is the Christmas, Holiday season to agnostics, atheists? Is it just the party scene....the act of just putting up a tree...what?

    For me it is a spiritual time when Christs Birthday is celebrated. What is wrong with nonbelievers saying Merry Christmas to me...since this season is not about their beliefs but mine?
     
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